Well, I was trying to be charitable. People who seriously want to murder people they’ve never met have serious emotional problems and should seek therapy.
It’s not at all the same. Violent self defense is acceptable because it’s an instantaneous decision with few options and no time to consider alternative strategy. It’s not because murdering bad people is totally fun and cool and you should do it any time it seems convenient.
Yes, bad things are happening, and radical actions are justified, if they improve the situation, and if less harmful options are unavailable or ineffective. But we could spend the entire next year debating and discussing how to defeat and destroy the power of the rich, and if we come away with a successful strategy, everything would be fine. It’s not the same as Elon Musk cornering us in a dark alley with a gun. The people collectively have far more power than the ruling class, and that power, in the present time, is most effectively wielded non-violently. We still have plenty of time and power to act, if we organize.
I don’t find this argument that going on a murder-rampage is the best strategy compelling at all. This type of behavior has never produced better living conditions any time in history that I can think of. These violent fantasies have nothing to do with the organization and action that will solve our problems, and instead act as strange fantasies for disturbed people, and to convince people that leftists are all violent weirdos. It’s actually completely counterproductive towards building the movement we need.
This type of behavior has never produced better living conditions any time in history that I can think of.
What are you on about? It’s the reason why we live in the conditions that we do.
People used to literally kidnap and kill CEO’s, that’s how we got workers rights, marginalised/discriminated groups have had to continuously protest and riot to bring attention to their causes and get changes either systemic or social enacted or discussed.
No, we have these rights because people exercised collective power in an organized and strategic manner. Including, yes, disruptive acts of protest which if you had asked instead of trying to shift the goal posts to, you would find that I support.
The isolated cases of lone wolf killings were not frequent enough to have any real effect but what effect it did have was to cause fear and division among the people we need to organize, and to give rhetorical weapons to the powers that be.
Who’s joking about it?
This is a war, people die in war. If our enemy doesn’t want to die, let them forfeit their “power” and surrender.
Well, I was trying to be charitable. People who seriously want to murder people they’ve never met have serious emotional problems and should seek therapy.
It’s not about wanting to murder people you’ve never met, it’s about wanting to defend yourself and others.
These people are actively waging class war against us, they hold all the power while letting the planet be destroyed.
It is imperative they go ASAP, if they won’t go voluntarily the other option is by force.
We’re running out of a future to debate this.
It’s not at all the same. Violent self defense is acceptable because it’s an instantaneous decision with few options and no time to consider alternative strategy. It’s not because murdering bad people is totally fun and cool and you should do it any time it seems convenient.
Yes, bad things are happening, and radical actions are justified, if they improve the situation, and if less harmful options are unavailable or ineffective. But we could spend the entire next year debating and discussing how to defeat and destroy the power of the rich, and if we come away with a successful strategy, everything would be fine. It’s not the same as Elon Musk cornering us in a dark alley with a gun. The people collectively have far more power than the ruling class, and that power, in the present time, is most effectively wielded non-violently. We still have plenty of time and power to act, if we organize.
I don’t find this argument that going on a murder-rampage is the best strategy compelling at all. This type of behavior has never produced better living conditions any time in history that I can think of. These violent fantasies have nothing to do with the organization and action that will solve our problems, and instead act as strange fantasies for disturbed people, and to convince people that leftists are all violent weirdos. It’s actually completely counterproductive towards building the movement we need.
What are you on about? It’s the reason why we live in the conditions that we do.
People used to literally kidnap and kill CEO’s, that’s how we got workers rights, marginalised/discriminated groups have had to continuously protest and riot to bring attention to their causes and get changes either systemic or social enacted or discussed.
No, we have these rights because people exercised collective power in an organized and strategic manner. Including, yes, disruptive acts of protest which if you had asked instead of trying to shift the goal posts to, you would find that I support.
The isolated cases of lone wolf killings were not frequent enough to have any real effect but what effect it did have was to cause fear and division among the people we need to organize, and to give rhetorical weapons to the powers that be.
You are completely ignorant of the history of unions if you think lone wolf killings were the only use of violence in the struggle for workers rights.
Yeah wasn’t there an “isolated incident” in “the whole of France”? No real effect there. /s
And it became a socialist utopia forever and nothing bad happened after that period at all!
I was talking specifically in the labor rights era. Obviously mass killings have happened in history, but again, they didn’t lead to a better society.
I think you will find that war isn’t a very useful metaphor for this kind of conflict. … you get that it’s metaphorical, right?
Does it really have to be? A class war (as actual war) has to be better than any other sort of war