Quokk.auThe end of Windows 10 is approaching, so it's time to consider Linux and LibreOffice
Problog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2025/06/11/theā¦
178 Comments
Comments from other communities
thingsiplayIts always time to consider Linux. No one has to wait until Windows support ends. :-)
No, but a bad MS/Windows decision is often a catalyst. I came over to Linux from Windows ME. :)
HanrahanTrue but like Reddit shitting the bed every 8 months leads to waves of folks on Lemny, or Twaxter doing the same thing leading to Mastodon waves. This wikl be another wave but how many ? Maybe a few 1000 only I guess ? I left for Mint about 3 years ago (dual boot defaulting to Mint) then to LMDE 12 months ago.
I'm thinking about switching. A couple of weekends ago I had Mint on a flashdrive and tried out a bit.
I'm worried about compatibility with games as I'm a Steam user and whatever launcher that game requires sometimes.
Should I just do it? Just do a brand new install but on Linux? Which distro should I use that would be good for gaming?
Other than gaming, everything else I do is just everyday browsing on reddit/lemmy, YouTube, email, etc.
edit: so I was finally able to get Mint installed on another drive. I had a hard time with Bazzite as it would get an error after validation using balenaEtcher, where it would say the flash drive is read only and unable to be formatted. Tried multiple times, then went out and got a new flash drive and the same thing happened. Finally I just used Mint, where it also got the same error after validation, but I was able to access the drive and boot from it š¤·āāļø
The next hurdle was getting the second monitor to work, where I thought just installing the Nvidia driver would be fine, but after some trial and error with upgrading the kernel from 6.8 to 6.11, then eventually something about MOC that I had to import the key, then it finallybworked. I also downgraded back to kernel 6.8.
I think my next step is to see if I can get Steam games working that are Windows only. Getting Wine installed and opening Notepad++ exe with that was easy and I was surprised that it just works.
Depends on your gaming habits. Check ProtonDB for Steam games compatibility, check Lutris for others. Some anti-cheats (especially kernel level anti-cheats) don't work on Linux, if devs decide to make it work on Linux, they can. For example they enabled Linux version of anti-cheat and Hell Let Loose works fine for some time now. If you mostly play single-player games, you'll probably be fine.
If you want every possible gaming related programs to be pre-installed, you might wanna go Bazzite. If you want to explore on your own pace, Mint is a solid choice. If you want something like Bazzite but mostly empty, there is also Aurora.
Do you have a spare SSD? Throw Linux on it and try it out for a while. You can always go back.
I do. I wanna say I did that a long time ago where I had two OSs on two drives? Would I have to disconnect the Windows drive to boot into the other? Or would it act like a dual boot and I can choose from a menu?
You can set up dual boot with your boot manager. This gives you all your installed OSs in the boot menu to select from.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual_boot_with_Windows
EDIT: BTW arch isn't hard to install anymore, just use the "archinstall" command at the prompt when it's finished loading.
If you have a game that only runs on windows right click on it go to manage and chose compatibility then pick the latest version of proton and relaunch the game. To do it globally First, log into Steam using your login credentials. Then, click on āSteamā in the top-left corner, and select āSettingsā. Go to the āCompatibilityā settings, then locate the āSteam Playā section. Toggle on the āEnable Steam Play for all other titles,ā choose the latest Proton version from the dropdown menu, click āOK,ā and restart Steam. My whole library works.
Grab a 1 TB nvme, take the Widows one out, install the new SSD boot the USB thumbdrive, install Bazzite (or Mint) and off you go, that's all I did. I'm running LMDE but not a big gamer, so the little I do play all works on Mint Debian Edition.
If it all gives you the shits after a time, just put the old SSD back in and boot back into Windows.
Bazzite is great for gaming if you want an immutable distro, Garuda is great for gaming if you don't.
My decision was to install Linux Mint first on my work laptop and not my main gaming rig, so I would have the ability to switch between both OS's as needed, and have a fallback machine if either failed.
ProtonDB (Compatibility Database) should be your friend in checking what works and what doesn't, and for the most part, Windows games "just work", no need to even toggle a setting (unless you count forcing Proton instead of a native Linux port).
If you have software that is critical to your daily life on windows (Photoshop, Autodesk, VR software, anti-cheat heavy games), you dont need to jump ship on your main hardware. There are ways to get support after October 15th (Through IOT LTSC versions of windows 10, but you'll have to find a way to get it).
All of your other use cases would be perfectly served by any Linux distro, the Interstellar Lemmy client even has a convenient flatpack for a 1-click install.
Check ProtonDB first (you can even log in to view all your library at once). If everything you would want to play works, go for it! If not everything works currently, I'd recommend getting your hands on IOT LTSC win10, and use a spare device to get familiar with Linux distros.
There's no one "gaming" Linux distro that will work, but I personally just use Linux Mint because it is ol' reliable for me - intuitive enough GUI, but just as configurable as anything else. You do miss out on some of the more bleeding edge stuff that distros such as Arch and Bazzite get, but unless you are using very new hardware, I'm not sure if it would be necessary.
The big area to push should be on Office.
The new versions of Office with that ribbon are terribly user unfriendly (or maybe just non-basic user unfriendly) so hitting that and pushing Libre Office could net some good adoption.
But I guess that's competing against GoogleDocs and the like these days... But we don't wanna give the Big G that data.
The ribbon that was introduced around... 2007, I think? Or is there a substantially different one now?
oh_I made the switch. Linux mint. Steam works great with all my games via proton. It was painless. Even a lazy person like me had mint setup with drivers, everything working in no time really.
kiriI'm not that old linux user so it's a bit interesting for me, when Windows 7 was closing, linux community was also so excited and offered everyone to switch to linux?
DefederateLemmyMlNot really the same scenario. PCs that could run Windows 7 could usually upgrade to 10, people were just reluctant to do so, partly also because 8 and 8.1 were such disasters. Eventually, everyone just moved on.
Today, a lot of 10 users would upgrade to 11 if they could, but their older-but-still-fine hardware is simply being cut off from Windows support.
Today, a lot of 10 users would upgrade to 11 if they could, but their older-but-still-fine hardware is simply being cut off from Windows support.
Technically, a lot of people was also "cut off" for Windows support with Windows 10, however, Windows 10 did not block you from upgrading anyway. Looking at the CPU requirements of Windows 10 1511, the Intel i3/5/7 types all required at least 5000 series or better from around 2015. Newer Windows 10 version cut out some of the 1511 supported CPUs, raising the minimum requirements. I think it was some of the CPUs from Microsoft's own Surface computers, that was kept in the supported list.
Microsoft should just let Windows 11 install with a big fat warning that you are running unsupported hardware, however this could have a negative experience when people run into features that does not work. But most of the way, people would be fine.
Every time for a long time. Regular users would have more reliability with Linux but they are apathetic. Also they only need LibreOffice and Firefox but don't want to accept that fact ant dont believe it exists on Linux.
My engineer father (who was secretly a dumbass for 60 years) asked me if Linux can even run programs. He has a Windows machine full of viruses...
Screenshots of your porn can now feed into your social life via AI that is continuously logging and analyzing.
MS must be having a heck of time upgrading to 11. I built two new AM5 PCs recently and one shows ZERO interest in win 11 while the other one took a few weeks in 10 before upgrading.
I know theyāre rolling it out based on tested configurations but not a peep. No hey, no get ready, no have you heardā¦.
Switching to Linux is activism. Not only are you making an anti-capitalist, anti-consumption statement, but active participation creates growth and change that's observable and satisfying in a way that most direct action cannot be.
Sunshine (she/her)Preach! Everyone needs to switch over!
Lee Dunajust happened, a few days ago I installed dual boot of EndeavourOS and OpenMandriva replacing Windows 7, on my potato mini PC. (Celeron 1007U, 8GB RAM, 512GB HDD)
Congratz. I see, EndeavourOS, a man of culture as well. :D But how did you came to OpenMandriva? It's not a usual distribution newcomers choose. Not because its hard to use, but because its a bit less popular. What made you chose this, just curious, not saying its bad or anything like that. I'm curious for the reason.
MudManI've said it before, but MAN am I excited to get to Windows 10 end of support so the old people and professionals stuck with highly specific hardware can just keep using their Windows 10 and the Linux community finally moves on from this stuff.
I am exhausted of these threads. Maybe we do a two week nostalgia revival when their paid commercial support ends again, but for now, can we make a deal right here to absolutely stop this crap by the end of the year when the needle moves exactly zero percent? Pretty please?
You are excited for October 15th because less people will be trumpeting Linux migrations.
I am excited for October 15th for the avalanche of cheap liquidated hardware flooding eBay.
We are not the same
Hah. I fear you and I are not the same, but you and the trumpeters may be equally disappointed.
Me too. I am already enjoying the discounted Intel laptops. They will really come down when macOS 27 comes out and OpenCore Legacy Patcher stops working on them.
There should certainly be some good desktop deals this Christmas for sure.
You may be getting bored of the posts but this is a rare opportunity to mass drive Linux adoption and break many peopleās dependence on Microsoft.
Even if itās 0.1%, thereās 1.4 billion Windows 10 machines out there. A million+ new Linux users would be great progress.
If youāre exhausted, just scroll on by. But if youāre a fan and user of FOSS, you should be giving these posts a quick upvote and move on with your day rather than be negative and dissuading the popularisation on Linux.
It is fricking not, though, that's my point.
I have heard exactly zero normies talk about this. Nobody cares. Just like nobody cared when Windows 7 ended support. People just... kept using it. Today Windows 7 is as high up the Steam hardware survey as Linux Mint.
Windows 10 doesn't shut down in October, it just... stops receiving security patches for free. Anybody clueless enough to not have migrated or stuck there for hardware reasons either already mitigated the issue or does not care. This is Linux's Y2K moment. Everybody is expecting this big shift to be a moment and it's really not going to be.
So I'm getting exhausted for nothing, which just makes it more annoying. Not a single normie space is even thinking about this. This is 100% Linux users talking to other Linux users about this big game-changing moment that's never gonna happen. The EoL day will come, a couple of tech outlets will run a piece saying "hey, MS ends Windows 10 official support" and maybe a listicle of things to do ("1. Move to Win11, 2. Pay Windows for patches 3. Move to another OS")...
...and nothing will happen.
We'll all be here and we'll all quietly stop talking about it and all this friction generated by this delusional hype will just fizzle out.
At the start of the process I was mildly excited, not about the influx of Windows 10 users, which was obviously not going to be a thing, but about maybe the hype leading to Linux development spaces focusing on long overdue work to ease that transition in time for the deadline. That didn't really happen, so now we're all just advertising this weird narrative to each other multiple times a day.
The quiet acknowledgement that... well, yeah, it won't happen, but don't break kayfabe just in case there's a Windows guy looking, just reinforces that point. I would much rather have spent all this energy addressing WHY it won't happen, or how to address the work that is needed to make it happen. I'd argue THAT is what a "fan and user of FOSS" should be pushing the community to do. In that, you know, it may actually work.
Iāve helped two ānormiesā movie this week because they reached out after they saw the chatter on social (Instagram of all places).
This topic seems to be causing you some stress for something that probably doesnāt have a big impact on you personally.
This isnāt going to be a tidal wave as change is slow. People are hyping it because hype drives attention and being hopeful and positive drives change better than negativity and pessimism.
Again, just scroll past the posts rather than engage if the content isnāt what youāre interested in.
It doesn't have a big impact on anybody. Which is the point. The friction IS the impact.
The hype drives attention if you're targeting the people that don't already know. That's not what's happening, regardless of your impromptu Instagram IT advice anecdotal experience.
Hype driving attention also doesn't work if the product you're hyping doesn't do the thing it needs to do the way the people you're marketing it at need it to.
Acknowledging either of those things is not negativity or pessimism. If we're talking about pushing for open source software as a community then denying or ignoring the practical issues is not helpful. OSS isn't a religion where you proselitize, facts be damned. It's meant to be a project for an alternative way of handling software development. That video I linked is not an attack, or a bummer, it's a hopeful sign that contributors and developers often have more clarity on the situation and the work left to do than the user-level advocates and activist forum posters.
Let people be excited about this if they want, I don't think it will matter that much tbh.
Let other people suggest Linux to their friends as an alternative, maybe some of them stick to using it, while others just conclude it's crap and move on.
You should really wonder why you get so upset from this though, it seems to cause you real harm that people might be wrong on the internet.
I don't need to wonder. I get "so upset" because I hang out here a bunch and it's boring and repetitive to see the same posts every single day. Especially when they're kinda weird, wrong and self-defeating.
I'm also not super inclined to letting the Linux/OSS community play the "you're mad at people being wrong on the Internet" card. Holy crap, is this place not the place to do that with any self-righteousness or moral high ground. In a conversation about lack of self-awareness that may be the biggest instance yet.
I've been using Linux since 98 and never have I ever seen it in so many conversations. 18,000 windows games now run. Distros like Bazzite and the Steam OS are getting kids into Linux. My son... Windows die hard that he was just told me he is not only running Linux but has canceled all streaming services and is hosting his own server. There's never been a better time to help people get into the fold.
The time I point people at is the early Ubuntu drops when Linux was getting easy to intall, computers were simple to build and magazines would sometimes just pop up in stores with a Linux install CD in the cover. That's the time I remember more normies suddenly gaining awareness of Linux as an option.
But yeah, I don't have a problem with any of the stuff you said.
It's just all unrelated to Windows 10 end of support.
Steam OS and Bazzite are way more relevant than it. Because they fix problems for a subset of users who are mainly focused on gaming.
They don't do it fully, and not for all users, but yeah, that stuff will move Linux from 1.5% of the Steam survey to 3-5% eventually. That WILL move the needle to some extent.
Now if you did that for Adobe users, video editors, graphic designers, people who HAVE to use Microsoft Office, people who only play Fortnite, people with zero capacity to troubleshoot, people who rely on commercial software with no Linux ports in general, people who have Nvidia cards and want to use Game Mode, people who use other specialized hardware that isn't currently well supported...
...those things will move the needle.
"My ancient copy of Windows 10 I use as a Chromebook is no longer getting security patches" is, by itself, less of an event than any of those. That's my entire point.
Countdown? I didn't even consider win 10.
I have one win 11 machine. That's for work and to keep my hand in on the dumpster fire of an OS professionally.
I tried out Bazzite and was pretty happy with the out of the box gaming. Think I'll consider it for the wife's laptop when 10 runs out. Kinda torn about giving her a dual boot with LTSC 10 and Linux or just going full in because it'll be me on the support end.
Hope someone goes over the libreoffice ui to simplify its workflows and fix multi monitor support by then. That youtuber who designed musescore's new version comes to mind
Tried it. Hated it. It's like replacing an old, worn out blanket with a scratchy burlap new blanket. Sure, it works, but bleh.
š¤£ have to completely rethink their work environment š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
Good Lord y'all love to ham it up.
Or just, you know, continue using 10 and not click on malware like a dipshit
I worry when this happens about being locked in to older versions of apps, especially ones like browsers that themselves aren't getting updates. It will only need one dedicated soul to find a remote code execution exploit for one of these pieces of software and you may not even need to click malware to get infected. Visiting a website or just having it connected to a public network would be enough.
Big nope from me.
I wish my clients were smart enough to use anything other than Windows. The average American isn't. Oddly enough, I'm personally using this opportunity to migrate from Apple to Linux.
hauiAn thats by design. IQ points are falling in the US from what I heard due to stuff being made to consume only, not to think. I suggest trying to migrate users to linux mint as there is no big smarts necessary to understand it. it works just like windows.
In any case good luck.
I would love to but none would. They are too comfy in their microsoft world. I agree with you on the content made to consume, not to think aspect. I also think we keep making things easier and easier so that people don't need skills to do anything anymore.
I do understand how one can fall into fatalism. It is conformist to be fatalistic. but you have to at least try.
This is more of a "pick your battles" moment. These people aren't self-learners and would need to have their hands held at all times. They can barely comprehend Windows and macOS. They would become a burden on me and just switch back eventually.
I suppose we're talking about different things. I have people who are 80 and get linux on their old laptop. They learn where to click and they have it in a couple minutes. I might get a call here or there. Thats it. Maybe i didnt catch correctly how able the people youre working with are. I apologize.
The big difference is probably the willingness and aptitude of your clients. I'm not in a very smart part of my country and the people are generally set in their ways. I think they have a sort of fatalism in that they believe that they must obey the corporate overlords or they will not get to play in the sandbox.
s38b35M5https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021
End of extended support date: 2032-01-13T22:59:59
Uhm... You realise that this is a tiny edge case?
shani66Not really. Enterprise is what businesses use and business is what is going to drive OS choice.
Whatever your thought process is here, I dont understand it.
if you're in a large corporation, you might use enterprise (I think iot is different alltogether, no?) but then you dont have any OS choice anyway.
And nobody at home will (nor should they) buy enterprise win10 instead of just switching to a better, faster, more ethical choice. Same goes for small businesses where the question is "do i need to switch OSs? how much ist it gonna cost and what will work best?" They have no reason to switch to a probably expensive additional license for enterprise if they can just use linux for free forever.
So no, and fuck windows btw.
Sure. About 10% as edge case as Windows users making the switch to Linux. Those who are scared to move away from Windows to Linux can continue to use Win 10 IoT LTSC for another 5+ years. I shared this as a reminder that the end of support "coming soon" can be staved off for another half decade if desired.
So you're suggesting that instead of switching to a free and far superior, ethically much sounder alternative, one should buy another - closed and unknown to them product/license of win 10? In a community that is an outspoken enemy of microsoft and its shenanigans. Or have I misunderstood? Honest question.
Presumptive argument you're making. Most people worried about the expiration of windows 10 support aren't in the market to buy windows 10. They already have it. Either way, massgrave.dev exists and makes that a moot point.
What's closed about LTSC IoT? Download, install, activate for free and carry on.
Switching from Windows to Linux isn't an easy move for most people. Most of then freak the fu$% out at the tiniest difference, and Linux is not a tiny difference.
I switched before Windows 10 was released. I switched my Mom six months ago. Now she uses her work computer (win11) rather than her own laptop because, "the start button looked strange." If you think a support deadline will get windows users (since the nineties) to suddenly adopt Linux, you haven't been paying attention.
You're preaching to the choir about MS shenanigans. But... For those who feel they need win10, there is an option to continue chugging along until 2031.
As for Linux being "superior" to Windows, I think most Windows plebs would disagree. It "just works" is what they think.
I think I understand why you're going on about this but it's still very confusing.
You're constantly contradicting yourself, one sentence after the other.
Of course windows is closed, the people you deem plebs will not go to massgrave. Windows is closed source software which has the customers data and hardware under control. if you argue that point you can also argue if the world is really round. it is just wasting my time.
Whatever "just works" for them is, is of no concern to me. I know that hundreds of people in my vicinity have adopted linux because it is better. You can now start more mental gymnastics but it still is only wasting time.
I have to remind you again, too: this is not the place to fight for windows or microsoft or any other capitalist hellscape. It is against the rules.
OP posts about windows EoL as a reason to switch to Linux. I reply that windows isn't EoL as soon as OP thought. I'm fighting for windows? News to me. Switch to Linux, don't switch. I don't care, because it's a personal preference, not a club with you gate keeping.. Maybe some people who read your post will worry they only have months, when they have more than five years.
And yes, the world is round. Feel free to argue about the firmament over your head and that Antarctica doesn't experience constant sunlight in summer. I won't hear you. Have a great day. Laaaater.
I really need to stop putting it off and install Linux on my PC and laptops
Yes, exactly.
(Kinda unrelated side note: Nobody around me is getting that all these apps are STUPID and MAKES YOU THE PRODUCT. Just why are they critisizing without even trying them?)
I'm between living locations and can't carry my desktop around.
So I grabbed an old laptop and put Linux mint on it. It's been near perfect. Extremely smooth experience.
It detected my printer and auto installed. I installed steam and played Terraria without issue. Small performance problem but I don't have a GPU. Even works good with my docking station.
My only complaint is the audio device doesn't switch automatically when I dock/undock.
I'd recommend making a USB and boot into it for a test drive.
Awesome, thanks for the insight. I was actually looking at Linux Mint myself. I need around 4Gb on a USB to boot it, correct?
That might do it. I don't own anything smaller than 16 GB sticks. I used Rufus on windows to make my stick.
Rufus is great and I still keep a copy around, but I haven't gone back since I found Ventoy. You just run Ventoy on your stick, and then drag and drop any and all bootable ISOs into it. When you boot it, you get a list of all the ISOs to work with.
The only caveat is that you absolutely have to eject the USB, or else Ventoy probably will corrupt. That's a small price to pay to have Arch, Mint, Fedora, NixOS, and Win11 all on one OS ISO toolkit drive, plus I always eject my drives as a rule of thumb. Then all I have to do is update them every couple months.
Yeah I should switch to Ventoy.
Haven't booted windows in over a month now. If I want to play pubg or bf1, thats about the only reason I need windows. And I do a lot of gaming, just not aaa multi-player. But I am enjoying computing again just like when I was younger and computers were interesting and fun and not corpo ad stations on your machine.
I dual booth Win11 and Fedora Desk 42. It feels gross starting windows but there are 2, TWO! Apps that don't have Linux version that I still need.
When Linux wizards figure out a way to use win apps without the intimidating complexity of installing Wine or virtualization, more people will switch.
I would give that a shot. The full guide is install 'wine' and 'winetricks' the same way you install any other software you use. Then in winetricks, select 'default prefix', then 'run arbitrary executable', and point it to your .exe installer. After that, you just open the program like any other program on your system.
You generally don't need to do more than that and might let you forgo ever dual booting again.
I recently jumped on pure Mint after buying a new desktop PC with no OS pre-installed. Within a week I was dual booting it on my laptop too. It's so much faster and efficient. Battery feels like it lasts 50% longer.
And the control is amazing.
I was very skeptical of Linux, as I had a shitty experience previously with OpenSUSE where nothing worked. Mint is the way to go tho, been so smooth.
Linux Mint would like a word. Best choice tech wise I ever made. Shit just works and it's dead simple, polished, easy to learn and read programs. Fuck Windows. I will never go back. Make the jump!
That's good to know. Mint was going to be my distro of choice
How many laptops do you own lol?
2, though they are both quite old
I end up with all the "broken" laptops my family replaces after they buy new ones.
I've got like 9 laptops. Active ones are my Linux one, work one (windows 11) and my wife's school one (windows 11). We both have win 10 desktops still.
I've had windows update disabled for years so the fact that it's "end of life" don't mean shit to me. It'll keep chugging along for years more.
That said, I installed Mint a week ago and love it!
EOL means no more security updates, which means attack vectors don't get patched.
If you keep using a Windows installation (or any OS for that matter) that isn't patched regularly you are very likely to be victim to some malicious actor eventually. It's not manual hacking anymore, it's bots scraping the whole internet exploiting known vulnerabilities completely automated.
The risk is much lower if you're in a home network with NAT, where your PCs IP is not publicly reachable, but if you communicate with any webservices you're still vulnerable.
As example. If you nowadays put a Windows XP machine live on the internet with a public IP, it will be compromised within minutes.
So yeah. Good call switching to Mint, but please don't use unpatched Windows.
This is what 0patch is for!
I saw a YT video about XP being compromised. It was literally about 2-3 minutes, and it had been attacked.
Yeah, we managed to recreate that in a lab. Those old OS's are super vulnerable.
Nat is not a security feature.
Just use ipv6
If you're behind a conventional router they still do NAT afaik.
Per default your IPv6 address should be an internal one if it's enabled.
My third world country gives us normal IPv6 addresses that can be accessed from the web if you configure the router xd
Mint was my first Linux OS, and it's been really nice.
I just rage-downgraded back to 10 a couple days ago. is there any reason why I shouldn't just keep using it after this year? are we ever going to see a risk for zero day exploits for it like happened for XP after it depreciated?
Consider running the LTSC version. It gets extended support.
I've been migrating some of my clients (I do on site support for SMBs) to LTSC 2019, which gets updates until 2029.
An added benefit is that it gets a lot less updates, essentially security updates, and comes with a lot less crap preinstalled.
If one were to run Win10 Enterprise LTSC IoT, "activated"... would it continue to automatically receive updates?
I have to assume so since other versions that have been "activated" the same way do. Real big shout out to you-know-who, btw. They make Microsoft software viable at all.
Windows 10 doesnāt actually need to be activated to receive security updates. Youāll just deal with an annoying watermark in the bottom right all the time. IoT may be different, though.
Regardless, I recommend taking a look at this project:
https://massgrave.dev/
ESU also offers one year of support for non-enterprise users for $30.
You mean aside from all the reasons not to use Windows that applied even before deprecation? 'Cause there are a fuck-ton of those.
Unironically, yes. I was already aware of those and take them into account
I mean, if whole EU countries can do it, so can you.
Installed Linux Mint a few months ago and have been dual booting. Hardly use Windows at all now.
Linux is exactly what an OS should be.
OK, really good article and I like Libreoffice (although I prefer Only office) and Linux. I browse on it, game, watch videos, do pretty much everything. I am also a technical person, who can create a VM in 10 mins, add a required boot parameter, etc.
Now. I want to send this article to my colleague/friend who's not technical at all. In the blog post I read
"Second partition" literally means nothing to most people. I know: just learn, just read. But most people will not bother, or they will simply not understand the tutorials. That's the unfortunate reality.
I think Linux and Libreoffice can become mainstream if a regular Joe/Jane can buy a laptop from Walmart with a distro and office apps pre-installed and use them like Microsoft Office. Before that time all this Linux and FLOSS stuff is limited to technical, or at least curious people willing to put some effort.
P.S. My relatives are on Linux and Onlyoffice, because I installed it for them. And it's so much easier and more rare for me to manage and troubleshoot than Windows. But I cannot see them installing it by themselves.
Yeah Iāve been considering switching to Linux but Iām not a tech person. I know enough to play some games and install some Minecraft mods and thatās it. Since I was thinking about getting a new lightweight laptop I was gonna get one with Linux instead of windows to give it a try but every time I found one that said Linux Iād look at the specs and it says the operating system is actually windows. Iād be willing to learn how to get Linux myself but Iām worried about ruining my computer because I donāt understand even half of the technical stuff. If anyone has any up to date very beginner friendly guides, Iād appreciate the recommendation
If you are willing to learn, then you can check Linux laptops from Framework, Tuxedo and Entroware. Linux preinstalled, and hardware is compatible.
Thanks! Iāll check those out!
The end of windows 10 support is approaching. Windows 10 will go on for a while yet.
Yeah but my W10 shoved a giant full screen ad telling me to get rid of my PC and get a new one with W11 twice. Support might be ending but if it constantly nags you to upgrade, that's just BS.
Im seeing these posts twice a day at this point. So someone like myself who is totally ignorant on Linux, I have some questions if anyone can lend advice?
Iāve been on PC windows for over twenty years now. And I use it mostly for video software like davinci resolve. Adobe software workflow. Unreal engine. I use clients harddrives and often times my own for working off of. And often times will send those harddrives to other people and their computers to finish the work. I also occasional play games on steam and Xbox App.
With that said, is it even possible for me to switch over to Linux and keep using all the same software and workflow I have for high end video production workflow?
While I'm pretty sure you're correct on majority of cases, there's still some stuff, like non-steam games, which just won't work no matter what you do. So, on paper these things work but your mileage may vary.
Davinci, yes but it can be frustrating to set up.
Unreal, I'm pretty sure yes. I don't see why not. I think it takes effort to setup though.
Adobe, No.
You might unironically want to go for Mac. Either the laptop or desktop XD
Haha ya I assumed those things. I have a Mac that I use as well. But typically prefer a PC when worki by from home :/
It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can do most of your work in linux and boot windows as a 'secondary' OS for stuff like adobe? I do this, and share NTFS SSDs/hard drives between them.
You are hitting weak points of linux though. I do all media work on linux (a lot through vapoursynth or 'lower level' frameworks than resolve I suppose), but TBH do most of my gaming on Windows, not just for convenience but for performance reasons too.
What?! I'm still working on my spreadsheet comparing 7 and 8!
I might be a little behind on Windows releases, because this is the first time I've heard of a version 40320
I've been a full time dev since 2012 and needed a Mac, I had barely used windows over that time but beforehand ran a PC service business.
Anyway, Ive been using Linux as a daily driver for the past 6 months for reasons.
... The other day I got a new cheap laptop I needed to setup for run a single application.
Holy fuck what a shitshow.
It took me 2 hours just to get to the desktop. Shit didn't work, bullshit login screens, ads everywhere.
It was a massive pile of dog shit.
After battling to get the system setup for the rest of the day I gave up, chucked Fedora Kinoite On it... Took 30 minutes from creating boot media to getting a desktop going, chucked the app I needed to run in a Flatpack, chucked it on a USB, and it was up and running.
No bullshit.
Just works.
Truly the year of the Linux desktop.
I'm guessing the cheap laptop was running Windows? You didn't mention, it sounds at first like you're saying you were using Linux on it.
What ads were everywhere? Why did it "take 2 hours to get to the desktop" - you mean, that's how long it took to install or something?
People here so full of shit. I just reimaged my lenovo t570 with windows 11 took less then 10mins to install. Another 5 to remove all the bs built in software like solitaire Cortana etc and then another 10-15 to apply all windows updates. Bam done.
Takes a lot more to fully deshittify it, though. I've been down that road. So much registry diving, so many third party apps, strongarming uninstallations of bloatware through brute force, and just all around weeks of work.
When the screenshot shit was announced the first time, I just got tired of looking for workarounds to disable or remove Microsoft's active attempts of policing, spying, and triple-dip profiting off it's paying customers.
Install the IoT version, that comes without any of the bloat and works just fine. Not even the Microsoft store is bundled in.
I have heard about the IoT version. I'd have to look more into it, but I doubt I'm going back now that I've learned so much about Linux. I can troubleshoot most of Arch without touching the docs or asking online now, so it really defeats the purpose of switching back.
I also enjoy putting in a little effort to get things working. That's the thing about Linux. Most people that daily drive it get a dopamine release from tinkering with it and fixing things, and I'm one of those people.
I know there has been a big "its for everyone" push these days, but its really not. So I'm glad the IoT version exists for those that want or need it.
Yeah Linux is great, no doubt. I've been using Xubuntu since forever, never really touched Arch, but fundamentally if you know your way around one system, you'll manage another.
Still, there are a bunch of applications that I must run under Windows, so it's good to have the no frills version available for that.
Where does one purchase a single license for windows 10 iot lts? Isn't that only for volume purchases by large enterprises?
Yeah, I'm not sure why anybody is mentioning Windows IoT. When you lookup where to buy this, Microsoft themselves tell you to call or email a salesman; it's an enterprise-only thing. Recommending this for individuals is misguided.
Yeah, sure. But I don't run a shop anymore and just picked up an off the shelf machine from a retailer.
Turned it on, connected it to wifi, then it took forever to try and update itself, which failed, required another reboot, then made me sign in, which also failed, needed a reboot
I dont want a fucking ms account, I don't want to wait for every update, just ask my name and take me to the desktop
Sounds like a personal skill issue. Especially if you bought some crappy off the shelf laptop.
Also you dont need any of that to use windows so again pushing false narrative since you can use windows with an offline account perfectly fine. Since I use mine for school and dont sign into Microsoft.
In the end I popped up the terminal and used some pot command with some flag I can't remember to skip the login step on setup.
I reckon there is good chance you aren't using windows 11 home though right?
You can even skip step 2 by using one of the IoT editions (either Win10 or Win11) which come minus the prepackaged bloatware.
Microsoft is mostly interested in making everything bullshit for home users. If you convince them you're an enterprise customer, preferably by running up the old Jolly Roger, suddenly your life is a lot easier.
Sorry answered it elsewhere, yep windows 11.
The forced update took forever and failed and then it also fucked out with the Microsoft account. It was legit 2 hours from boot to seeing a desktop. I wanted to skip the updates and the Microsoft account.
The start menu is full of ads for software I don't want. If I buy software off you, stop trying to upsell me.
Can't wait for the "The end of Windows 11 is approaching..." article in a few years. Keep me posted.
Windows 12, with AI even moreso integrated.
Nah, there'll be a new boogeyman by then.
If you find yourself not wanting to switch, there are third party options for patching. I'm going to try zero patch, but I have no experience with them to date.
Somehow, windows 11 is even MORE spyware than 10!
Now with AI! So Windows can use your processing power to record and analyze every use of your computer, and report back useful findings to MS. What data is sent back? Who knows? You certainly won't be told what 'core telemetry' is required at any point in time.
Except the Diagnostics Data Viewer has been a thing for a long time and tells you exactly what data is sent back as telemetry. Now if you don't believe it that another topic.
at least I haven't seen anyone prove it sends all data of your machine
Have you ever looked at what's in that thing? It's not exactly transparent. There's heap of data that's is not clearly labelled or easily readable. Also, again, what data is sent can changes from update to update - without any any control from the owner of the computer; and without so much as a notification or even an update log.
What is the highest spec pc I am likely to find for sale when people realise it cant go to windows 11?
Unless the requirements have changed, youāre looking at 2016-2017 era. Intel 7000-series, AMD Ryzen 1000-series. Newer may be available if thereās no TPM installed.
TMP 2.0 released in October 2014, so I don't think that you can find particularly powerful systems up for grabs.
I had a look and it looks like you will not get anything special. The cutoff is around 2015. So for example Lenovo T440s will support Win11 but T440p will not. Looking at backmarket T440s is cheaper than T440p. So looks like you will only be able to get something ancient and the price will be pretty standard.
I always find it odd that posts like this get any downvotes at all. Like, are people really that in love with Windows and or Microsoft?
It's because we've seen this post 1000 times
and yet you persist. why?
(sorry, this is totally a troll)
Because the people that would or can switch would already switch after it's been posted for the 1000th time. It's not realistic because the vast majority of people simply don't care. People hate windows updates enough as it is, to most average people this is good news.
Not caring is why these corporations have the power they do.
It's because LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
GNU! GNU!
I downvoted it.
For starters I've seen this exact post a few times over the past 3 months in this community.
Secondly, the comments go exactly the same in these threads:
1. "linux can do everything, no faults at all, windows sucks"
2. "but I use windows for x and y and linux can't do it"
3. "how dare you insult linux, you should not be doing x and y, just do it with this app (which is completely inferior)"
Next, windows does everything I want it to do, I disabled and uninstalled everything I didn't want easily through settings & group policy, and it hasn't bothered me since.
Because mass recommending Linux to people with absolutely no nuance whatsoever is exactly why Linux users are seen as obnoxious and annoying. Not only does the website make no attempt to properly explain Linux it doesn't clearly outline its usecase. Its the very definition of the Linux user stereotype, blasted right in front of your face, reposted everywhere, and with a simple INSTALL LINUX and EVEYONE CAN INSTALL LINUX.
The first paragraphs on https://endof10.org/ tell you why you should install Linux followed by telling you how to get in touch with someone who can explain things to you and even install it for you. Most of them do it free of charge. I'm not sure how you can improve on that.
Because theyre eithet vauge, blatant lies, or not something people care about:
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh. Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11. Also the terminology is very enterprise focused and objectively some distros (ex REHL) are paid.
Once again not something people strictly care about. In addition if you use Linux exactly like Windows with Chrome, Whatsapp, Discord and other non privacy respecting apps you're not improving your privacy by much.
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven. For any meaningful change you need societal change from the top (especially corporations and rich people).
Online Linux forums and chats especially for new people can be extremely overwhelming. Especially when a Windows user comes in and asks why something isnt exactly like Windows. Also once again movements like this is why people dont like the Linux community.
Most new Linux users not only wont use them but especially in KDE software will actively be overwhelmed by the amount of options and menus. Additionally what this critically leaves out is the fact that more advanced customization requires more skill and experience the more advanced it is. There is a clear skill difference from installing a widget in KDE Plasma to compling and installing a custom kernel.
Now lets talk about the things they should have mentioned:
1. Less commercial software: adobe especially but most professional grade editing software for both video and photo does not support Linux (yes I know Davinchi resolve technically does but the Linux version is so awful you might as well not use it)
2. Linux is not Windows or MacOS: Linux does its own thing, sometimes this is good sometimes bad sometimes its highly debatable (and Linux users will debate it). Because of that if you expect to use Linux exactly like Windows you'll get confused and frustrated.
3. Package managers: Almost every major DE has a graphical package manager frontend, this is a good thing and should be talked about.
4. Desktop Environments: Show what they look like, KDE Plasma and Gnome. It should be explained their differnces and who they're made for.
5. Distros: Explain a few of the most common distros and who they're made for. Debian is the most stable but gets few updates, OpenSuse tumbleweed is bleeding edge, Fedora gets updates once every few months, Arch is unstable and not reccomended for beginners, Pop_OS is great for gaming (see ProtonDB for compatibility)
Many people are also not willing to buy new hardware. I have several friends where each PC purchase is a massive hit on their budget that requires other things to be sacrificed. And one does pay for a Windows key every time they buy a Windows PC. SIs who sell PCs with Windows as optional offer the Linux PCs for cheaper since you don't have to pay the Windows license fee.
Depends on the PC, some of them just will not go to 11, in which case you are talking about spending hundreds of dollars to go from Win 10 to Win 11, but $0 to go from Win 10 to Linux.
Privacy is exactly what got me and one of my other friends to switch. Many, many people don't like being spied on. And taking reasonable steps to reduce it is very much so within our control.
Not buying something new and using what you have demonstrably helps. There is no world in which throwing away a perfectly good PC just to manufacture and transport another is somehow better for carbon emissions. Microsoft should not be rewarded for creating so much unnecessary ewaste by encouraging people to go out and buy another Windows PC.
You can also just stay on Windows 10 and get 3rd party security updates. That is a legitimate option that for a lot of people is going to be their best choice.
It's getting downvoted because it's not realistic.
I thought so too, largely on the basis of some very bad experiences with ubuntu-based distributions (they seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for whatever reason), but in frustration I tried one last time to install a linux distro and went with something based on fedora and it has 95% just worked, it's been great. I haven't booted up windows in almost 3 weeks, all my games work (battle.net was a bit of a pain to get working), the proprietary windows software I use for work runs great in wine, etc. I'm at the point now where I'm transferring all my files off of NTFS partitions and reformatting them to btrfs and integrating them into the linux filesystem, cause I'm done with windows forever to the greatest possible extent that I can be.
Nvidia Linux drivers are still kinda iffy these days but so are the Windows ones too
It was definitely a Ubuntu thing - Pop, 2 version of Ubuntu, and Mint all failed at various points when dealing with GPU drivers, but I'm using closed-source nvidia drivers on the same GPU in Nobara (Fedora) without issue. Though I guess I haven't tried updating it yet, but all my hardware accelerated games work as they should.
I am greatful that Ubuntu ended up bringing the Linux desktop into the general publics eye, but at the same time out of all of the popular distro's today, I firmly believe there is always a better choice than Ubuntu for any user, new or veteran. It's just a pity that they are the most well known to people who aren't familiar with Linux while not being good at anything, although basically any Linux distro feels like fresh air when compared to the Microsoft experience.
Why is that? What's the problem with ubuntu? I mean ubuntu-based distros seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for some reason, but besides that. I'm pretty happy with nobara tho, and wouldn't switch back to ubuntu even if I knew it'd work with my GPU.
You just hit both of my points,
2.ubuntu doesn't do anything particularly better than any other distro, the marketing pitch normally ends up being "we're Linux, and we've done it a while" because there isn't any feature that makes it stand out so they advertise on their stability which isn't that much more pronounced in comparison to a fedora or debian based distro.
In general I wouldn't say it has a problem, it does what it says it will do, it's just that it's distinct features are quickly becoming the standard or obsolete.
Fair enough. Personally my hardware isn't that new; the GPU is 3-4 years old at this point, the rest of the PC is ~5 years old so you would think even the latest LTS which is only a year or two old would support it. shrug
But yeah I'm liking nobara's rapid update cycle so far, though I haven't tried to change GPU drivers with it yet, so I suppose I will reserve a tiny amount of judgement until I have to do that. ;)
my main gripe with Ubuntu right now is the way they are forcing snaps into my system under the covers. if i wanted to install a snap, i would be using
snap installinstead ofapt install. forcing a snap install when i use apt install is just total fuckery. fortunately i only have to use ubuntu at work; home is fedora and almaHm, yeah that is definitely a weird thing to do, I'm using nobara (fedora) and it has the app center for snap and flatpost for flatpaks plus dnf for the package manager.
Agreed. New users often either go Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they're well known, but really aren't the best options out there anymore.
I imagine the downvotes are backlash against all the people who convince themselves that Linux is the only viable solution regardless of use case or workflow. There are definitely loads of people in the Linux community and the open source community in general who will pick a piece of software and proselytize it with no consideration whatsoever whether it fits someone's actual needs. Like, personally, I like Linux but there are things I need to do that require me to have Windows. For some people this fact is absolutely unacceptable and they simply won't hear it.
What can't you do on Linux that keeps you on Windows or Mac?
photoshop, multiplayer games, excel specific macros, 99% of the accounting programs, drivers wificard soundcards, multimonitor support that doesnt shits itself within 10 seconds...2 years ago i tried mint, ubuntu, manjaro, they all failed.
2 years is a long time. Driver issues are few and far between these days. Multi monitor support has greatly improved as well. I can't help you with your software requirements if you're stuck using proprietary programs like Photoshop. I can tell you that as a professional graphic designer and illustrator the alternatives to "industry standard" software are powerful and arguably better (Inkscape) on the Linux side. It does take time and effort to retrain years of shortcuts and workflow experience, but it's definitely doable.
Maybe one day when you're feeling adventurous give Linux another shot. I know for a lot of people the ethics of open source vs closed aren't really important, but it's still fun to see what else is out there.
i see now. you just love to be downvoted.
Why? I thought it was a pretty reasonable reply.
There may be a few more, but these are the big ones. JACK, at the moment, just isn't a replacement for Voicemeeter and while there are some DAWs for Linux, they're not FL and I don't know if they're compatible with Guitar Rig. I've used OpenShot for video as well, and while it's not terrible it isn't really comparable.
I'm sure that Linux is a good fit for many users. Personally, as an operating system alone if it weren't for these issues, I'd prefer it. I'd love to be able to do what I need to do and also have a plasma, it's much nicer. But at the moment it isn't a real option without sacrificing things that I actually need. I also really can't be dealing with suddenly needing to sort out how to make a finicky program work at the drop of a hat when I'm in the middle of working on a project.
I've been dabbling with Linux since the early 00s. I like it and I wish it were a substitute for Windows for my use case, but it isn't. No amount of people being rude and obtuse in threads will change that. Time might, but it hasn't yet.
Ah I see. Pipewire has made audio production a lot easier with far fewer latency issues. I know the FL Studio crowd is pretty diehard, but if you're ever feeling adventurous there's a lot more in the audio space now. I personally use Reaper to record my guitar through my Audient interface and have no issues. I'm not much of a beats and loops guy though so YMMV.
Does it have separate audio channels and input/output controls with volume sliders and hotkeys? That would still leave a few other issues, but progress is progress and I do like to keep myself aware of the options so that I'll know when it finally ticks all the boxes.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Pipewire is the audio server, replacing Pulse. It does have frontends that allow routing from different devices, channels, software etc and distributions that are using Pipewire now have interface elements that allow you to control application use of audio devices. I'm not sure I answered your question at all lol.
I use pipewire with Ardour and Neural DSP VSTs (over wine) with zero issues on EndeavourOS. I really hadn't expected that. Now, I generally just use this stuff to not have to buy many physical pedals so I rarely do recording, but that has worked as well.
You seem to be way more advanced than me in that regard, so I can't say if it would work for you, but it was so much easier and better than when I tried the same thing years ago. I'd suspect that GuitarRig works as well, though I haven't tried. I may just do so this weekend, but can't promise.
I have GuitarPro running with wine as well.
Deleted by author
Perhaps if you ran Linux you'd be less crankyyyyy
later edit : I hope this message was interpreted for the tongue in cheek that it was
That's not the flex you think it is.
Your preoccupation with image here hurts you more than it helps you.
Not that I have a strong opinion one way or the other but Linux people's lack of self awareness or discretion has hurt its spread more than Microsoft has.
Having a teensyweensy bit of occupation with image goes a really long way
Putting Bill Gatesā dick in my mouth is far too high of a licensing fee. Iāll just play Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe instead. But no judgment. You live your best life.
Honestly yes, this entire campaign is absolutely stupid.
I'm likely going to because windows update is embarrassingly bad if you have 32gb as your goddamn boot drive.
The only time I use Windows is for Fusion 360
I wish I could make parts in FreeCAD anywhere close to as good as I can in Fusion 360... I REALLY miss it since the move to Linux. I'm not anywhere near as excited about my 3D printer anymore since designing parts is a slog and the end result I am generally un-proud of. :( I feel like my only option (which sucks) is buy a second GPU for pass through and install windows 10 in a VM that only touches the internet once every 2 weeks to keep Fusion happy.
Itās possible to pass thru a single GPU. I followed this guide on my Fedora desktop
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eTWf5D092VY
It is possible, but I have problems with it. Number one, my current GPU is one affected by the AMD reset bug, so it would take even more tinkering than that tutorial to get working. Number two, I'd prefer to not have to choose between windows or linux having the GPU - having to shut down the VM to get back to my normal desktop and programs is not ideal.
Also, I just wish FreeCAD made more sense to me, as I don't trust Autodesk long-term to not take away the "free for personal use" license. They've already taken several anti-consumer steps already. :(
I got a cheap mini pc. It had W11 on it which I promptly broke (I think it was when it insisted on me putting in a PIN but I closed the window). It also ran at 100% for no reason trying to do updates, but then refused to do any updates.
So I put the latest Ubuntu Linux on it. Seems OK, but I can't get anything to recognise the video codex stuff in the N150 CPU. It seems to know it's there, but Firefox and MPV won't use it...
I know when you install Mint there is a 'install codecs' checkbox during the installer, not sure if the same exists for Ubuntu.
For Ubuntu, you could try this and see if it solves your problem.
Yeah, tried all that, and not having much luck in Firefox and MPV. VLC fine. Replied to the other post, and it might be Snap blocking it. I dunno though, because I know basically fuck all about snap other than a lot of Linux people don't like it.
O, yeah. Snaps basically live in their own little system. Anything you do to your wider system, like installing codecs, will not affect a snap. Easiest solution is to remove the snap VLC and install normal VLC. Same for Firefox and MPC.
I have heard nothing good about snaps and Canonical pushing them is a big reason you don't see people recommending Ubuntu, and instead recommending things like Mint (me included).
Well, shit...
I went with Ubuntu because the N150 is fairly new (even if it's just a slightly faster N100) and the 25.04 Ubuntu kernel supports it out of the box.
I wouldn't worry about it too hard, there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with Ubuntu. Both it and mint are in the same family after all.
Sounds like you should just keep Ubuntu and get the non-snap versions of the apps that need codecs.
Yeah, I removed Snap mpv and reinstalled with apt.
Lo and behold, it works perfectly all of a sudden.
Firefox looks like more effort, and apt will install the snap version. Even if you uninstall snap. Fun. If I could enable what is missing I'd be OK, but I've no idea what it is...
You need to install the codecs, there's a way to do it on ubuntu, just google search it (and there's an option during installation to do it too). The N150 cpu and its integrated gpu is not a problem for your codec problem, it's a matter of installing the right software.
Yeah, I thought I'd ticked something similar during setup, but maybe it wasn't for that. I installed them and it hasn't really changed anything in either mpv or Firefox.
The compositing in Firefox is webrender (software) and appears to be using llvmpipe as the GPU. There's a 2nd "GPU" listed, but doesn't seem to use it All the codecs say hardware is disabled...
Installed VLC and that seems to use the hardware renderer. MPV and Firefox are both installed with Snap. I'm seeing a pattern that might not be there, but I'm already hating Snap. This is day two of my rebooted Linux experience...
Yeah, snaps won't be able to access the "external" codecs (outside their jail). So either install the official firefox package from the firefox site, or chrome.
these articles offer ms office alternatives acting like most people write their shopping lists in excel or something. i remember my friend asking for a cheap key for office, and i asked him when was the last time he opened a file in office. after a few seconds of waiting he told me that he opened up an rtf manual for an ancient tomb raider game...told him that almost anything can open an rtf. he lives an officeless life since.
OnlyOffice is way better than LibreOffice.
Bruh...I'm still running windows 7 in one of my VMs hosted by Debian ššš
Also 0patch, which will continue to provide security patches for Windows 10 indefinitely.
I don't understand how can critical buisness machines which work perfectly fine be switched to windows 11?
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ?? Why would I take my risk breaking stuff. I am sure there are millions of critical systems running gon windows 10 which should not be distribed at any means, what would Microsoft do about them.
The problem is that Microsoft is ending Win10 support so you won't be able to get updates and such (especially security updates) for the OS anymore which will ultimately lead to things breaking or being vulnerable anyway, plus if that business-critical software ever gets updated to the point where it also doesn't support win10 anymore (I've run into this in the past with XP/Vista) then you're going to have to change anyway. But you don't have to change to win11. Companies and governments all over Europe are switching their mission-critical systems to linux and FOSS, yeah it's a pain, but it's going to save you pain down the road.
Your business critical system will no longer be supported with security updates which will leave it vulnerable to attack.
I guess, if it's not connected to any sort of outside network, and has no way of accepting data from media like discs or thumb drives then it's perfectly safe, but if that's the case, and it works in isolation, how "business critical" is it?
You would be amazed in the industrial world. There are tons of large and incredibly expensive special purpose machines that are operated by super antiquated PC architecture computers running geriatric operating systems, sometimes still even DOS or Windows 3.x.
Think industrial CNC mills and lathes, presses, pick-and-place machines, specialty lab testing equipment, electron microscopes, etc.
Process control, i.e. production line automation, is usually driven by dedicated PLCs. But the user interfaces connected to them are almost invariantly some old ruggedized panel mounted PC running Windows. An absurd number of them in my experience are still on 2000 or XP. NT4 is pretty easy to find, too.
Granted often these are not networked, and in cases where they are they're not connected to the internet, or may even talk to other workstations via RS-485 serial (!) or some other gimcrack method that is unlikely to be a vector for modern malware.
As long as they aren't networked, there's no problem there!
Critically, the people who build these machines don't typically update drivers to port them to a new OS. You buy a piece of heavy equipment, investing tens, or maybe even a hundred thousand dollars, and there's an OS it works on, maybe two if you're lucky. The equipment hopefully works for at least 20 years, and basically no OS is going to maintain that kind of compatibility for that long. Linux might get the closest, but I'll bet you're compiling/patching your own kernels before 20 years is up.
This kind of dynamic is unavoidable when equipment vendors sell equipment which has a long usable life (which is good), and don't invest in software support (which is them being cheap, to an extent), and OSes change enough that these time horizons likely involve compatibility-breaking releases.
Hahahahahaha, I still periodically see win2k/2k3 on the network at some clients, with SMBv1 enabled across the domain to make the CISO's eye twitch
back in 2017, the company I worked at had a win 2K server. Crazy shit. It was for a critical system (ran the phone system)
Fucking phone systems! That's what these are, and we have to snap them any time they're rebooted because sometimes they just shut the bed randomly, but the client doesn't want to buy a new system....
But, it's their wallet and they're willing to pay the "fuck you pay me" legacy surcharge.
If you are running business critical applications on Windows 10 that is a problem. Windows 10 is only meant for end user machines. Other services should be running on OS's that are meant for the application such as Windows Server or server versions of Linux distros running LTS kernels.
Not to mention, near every piece of software I've been involved with at work has required specific versions of Windows Server and whatever database it uses, if you want to upgrade the software you use, then upgrading the OS is part of the task.
Because you should be using a server grade os instead of janking things together with desktop OS installs that just make everything so much harder (and aren't supported for as long).
Sorry, I have to clean up installs like this at least once a year when we take on clients from internal IT that just made things work instead of making something that works right, so I've got opinions.
For that use Windows 10 IOT LTSC
What Microsoft probably expects you to do is get your management to buy new computers that support Windows 11 and/or whatever the hell their current server OS is, and in the process give them and their hardware vendor partners a lot of money.
What you can do instead is switch to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC which is what I did at my workplace recently. It's supported until 2032 with security updates. Not feature updates, but I suspect that business users probably don't care about those much. In fact, most people would probably treat that as a benefit. It also comes with basically no bloatware (except goddamned Edge), which is surprising. No Copilot, no Cortana, no Recall. None of that shit.
We have a fleet of machines that "can't" be upgraded to Win11 because of hardware shortcomings, at least without overriding the requirements with Rufus or similar. Unfortunately we also rely on a small but important spread of proprietary Windows-only applications which have no open source or Linux replacements, and at least two of them absolutely will not run in Wine. Believe me, I tried.
The only wrinkle with this is that you cannot upgrade or license swap in place. You have to do a full reinstall, which for us is not a problem because we have a modest number of computers and I have physical access to all of them. None are bricked up behind a wall or anything.
Because either way youāre taking a risk.
Security flaws and aging hardware are two obvious problems.
Iād very much question why youād use windows 10 over something better supportedā maybe not Linux but at least Windows Server OS.
The obvious conclusion is that Windows 10 is not fit for purpose in your business environment and the person in charge of IT procurement dun goofed picking it in the first place.
Their answer would probably be to run Windows Server 2022, which is supported until 2031.
I don't know what kind of software that particular machine runs, but for server and backup Linux appears to be the go to tool. I'm not saying that you have to migrate everything to Linux. I just say that for servers and the like the transition is probably easier than for desktop.
Why should the financial sector ever switch away from their amazing COBOL code base? Why should anyone switch away from VGA, works just fine? No need for USB, PS2 etc. work just fine.
It's not all quite as rosy.
Yes, Linux is much more capable now than it was 10 years ago and it's much more capable of being used as a main system. I myself have been using Linux as my main system for a few years now.
But it's also a fact that a lot of stuff might not work (even if it works for someone else) and that some things are still more difficult than they should be.
For example, on my laptop cannot wake from sleep since kernel 6.11. I have manually sourced a 6.10 from an older version of my distro and keep holding it back, so that I can use my laptop as a laptop. For someone without technical skill, this would mean that their laptop just can't sleep any more. Hibernate also doesn't work.
Another example is that LibreOffice still makes a lot of formatting mistakes when it has to open word documents. And sure, everyone could just switch to odf, but it's not quite as easy to make everyone else switch to odf. It makes it really hard to use LibreOffice in any kind of professional environment. Wouldn't want to make a powerpoint presentation that then looks like shit when it's played on a different PC.
Lastly, Nvidia sucks, but it's also close to the only option for laptops with dGPUs. When I look for laptops with dGPUs available in my area on a price comparison platform, I find 760 laptops with Nvidia GPUs and only 3 with AMD, all of which are priced at least ā¬500 more than comparable Nvidia devices. So if you want to go for a gaming laptop, Nvidia is pretty much the only option, and under Linux it really sucks. Steam games generally work ok for me, but trying to use Heroic Launcher to play anything from my gigantic library of free Epic/Amazon/GoG games, about 10% of the games I tried actually work. And even with those that work, my laptop sometimes just decides that a slide show with 3 FPS is good enough. That stays even after reboots and resets, and after a few days it returns to normal. Only to go back to slideshow mode a few days later.
If you just use your laptop to run a browser, I can recommend Linux 100%.
If you want to do anything else and don't have any technical skills and/or don't want to spend hours fixing things that should just work, I can't fully recommend it.
I am a developer and Linux is my native environment in production systems. I wanted to use Linux on my laptop but sleeping / waking up never worked well enough. It could not switch from integrated video card to a discrete one ending up always using the discrete one which drained the battery in 30 minutes. All in all, it was usable but the details didn't work so I gave up. That was years ago and eversince no customer really allows Linux...
Sleep/hibernate has been a pretty big problem for a while. As for the gpu, have you checked out NixOS? There's ways to enforce your integrated card to handle everything and change states for certain apps to the discreet card.
It takes a bit to learn, but nixlang is pretty simple. I've heard it referred to as "JSON with functions". It also has the largest package repository of any OS and is atomic, so its hard as hell to break. You can even make separate, containerized dev environments with flakes.
I read posts just like yours ten years ago.
I guess you aren't wrong. There are a lot of advances but stability and small but really annoying bugs remain a huge pain point.
wishful thinking. i mean i get where the sentiment is coming from, but normal users are going to have a lot of problems if they make that switch. especially if they need particular types of software.
No, no its not. I get it lemmy has a hard on for Linux and libreoffice. But unfortunately its just not gonna happen windows is king. If you like or not its the main dog on the market and enterprises are not going to switch.
With a couple of governments making the switch I honestly think that things are changing to some degree. Will windows die and be forgotten by everyone overnight? Of course not. But I think thereās a real chance their piece of the pie will start to shrink noticeably. Chrome OS is dominating in schools for a few years now and Microsoft is seemingly trying hard to alienate the current windows users.
What the hell are you on about. This is not a "everyone or no one" thing. You can consider it. I have, I switched. I still use mac at work but I absolutely can switch at the homefront. Some companies use Linux, most use Windows. And they absolutely can consider switching.
Microsoft already lost enterprise servers to Linux, and has lost significant ground over the years in consumer PCs to ChromeOS, MacOS, and Linux. Hell, the top PC gaming handheld is a Linux offering. That was an unheard of idea just five years ago.
While I agree that business laptops will continue to be dominated by Windows for awhile, the market shifts we see everywhere have downstream effects on business laptops too. When you find yourself having to train more and more people on how to use Windows than you did in the past, the value argument for Windows on your employee's laptops quickly comes into question.
I think at this point Android is the king of operating systems in terms of what the majority of consumer devices run. Perhaps the path forward is people plugging their phone into a dock and being presented with a more productive interface.
I'd actually argue enterprise is more likely for people to switch, there's a lot of Linux sysadmins out there, and there's a lot of Linux in enterprise environments, and of course especially servers.
Unless you have specific requirements for specific software that runs only on Windows, getting away from Microsoft can be a pretty tempting prospect. Even if there are people who fear change and the idea of change like the plague.
I haven't used Windows at work in years for anything, not for cloud hosting, not for on-prem, not for employee machines etc etc. until the cost-cutters came in and forced Teams and other Microsoft crap to squeeze the market during inflation. The company is just waiting to be killed off now.
Deleted by moderator
For a lot of people that say of thinking doesnāt work, they explicitly donāt want to/wont go without, people enjoy luxury and convenience and arenāt going to skate by on only things they strictly need
Call me when Libre doesn't suck/feel like it's stuck in 2003.
I won't hold my breath.
If you don't like it, try OnlyOffice.
Look like you're already stuck in 2003
Baby duck syndrome.
No thanks, I value my time.
Ironic
LOL no. There are many good reasons choose Linux on the desktop/laptop, but the so-called Win10 apocalypse isn't in the top 10.
Two of my friends switched recently precisely because Win 10 was going end of life. 'I have to change the OS anyway' was the final motivator.
Whilst that's true, it's a good opportunity to push Linux as a potential alternative in a few different ways - reduction of e-waste, free and private oriented alternative, simple (in some situations/distro) for certain basic users, or even someone who wants to get a little more technical. It's good to promote the idea that there is more to computers than a monolithic monopoly called Microsoft.