Quokk.auBritain’s illegal e-bike boom: desperation, delivery drivers – and unthinkable danger
_haha_oh_wow_www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/04/br…
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Comments in micromobility - Bikes, scooters, boards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility@lemmy.world
Honestly can't blame people for having opinion on (illegal)ebike. We love to blame carbrain for this, but...they also written a book on how to build car and how the driver should act, there's only like a few pages, if not one, that applicable to cyclist, and ebike adhere to the same rule as bicycle, yet the potential of harm(self or others) is higher than bicycle. Though i'd argue that throttle and a bit higher speed(30kmph) helps, illegal one is essentially a motorcycle that disguised as a bicycle.
With regards to the UK regulatory structure for ebikes and where they blur into other categories, it seems that the UK has a "missing middle" situation: there's nothing legal that is quicker than a 25 kph (15.5 MPH) ebike other than a "S-pedelec", moped or motorbike, all of which require registration, licensure, and insurance. I'm unreliably informed that insurance is a major impediment in the UK, because of the broad criteria that insurers can use to set rates.
To that end, I think a regulatory change would be to loosen the burden for "S-pedelecs". For reference, I say "S-pedelec" to mean a 45 kph (28 MPH) pedal-assist ebike, with a 250 W or 500 W power limit, making these almost comparable to American Class 3 ebikes. In the UK, the insurance requirement should be dropped outright, and the registration requirement reduced to a "plate" requirement, kinda like how California requires mopeds to pay a one-time fee to obtain an identification plate. This would directly address the supposed issue of snatch-and-run incidents using ebikes, and while I don't agree with the whole surveillance state thing going on in the UK, they've already set the precedent for this with the rest of the regulatory system.
In terms of rider training, I'm not entirely certain what to suggest. By far, the rest of the world has better road education than here in the USA, so I'm reluctant to suggest a "laisse-faire" approach where UK S-pedelec riders need zero qualifications to ride. In California, we are still coming to grips with whether our Class 2 ebikes can be safely ridden by children, premised on the somewhat shaky assumption that they're as easy to control as an acoustic bike. So with all that said, I could vaguely see changing the requirements so that S pedelec riders need some form of UK license to ride, so at least riders will know the road markings and intersection priorities.
It is fairly well-documented that American youth -- despite being surrounded by unshakable car culture for a thousand miles -- are less interested in a driving license than ever, and I imagine the same is true in the UK where driving an automobile is even more expensive and prohibitive. But I would hope that perhaps UK youth have a higher propensity than American youth at pursuing a motorbike license, and then using that to ride a cheap S-pedelec, if the regulatory changes I've proposed were to take shape.
My main gripe is that without a smooth gradient in personal mobility regulatory requirements, there is no cognizable difference between an S-pedelec, moped, or motorcycle today in the UK. There has to be some sort of distinction, or else people will either: 1) decline all options, or 2) ride illegally.
I harbor no airs that the California regulatory structure is perfect -- it dang well isn't -- but at least I can envision plausible two-wheeler scenarios for a 6-year old, a 16-year old, a 26-year old, and a 66-year old, given the breadth of permissible two-wheelers here and how the skills and training stack up. But in the UK right now, there's a huge chasm between riding an acoustic bike as a child, and then.... nothing for young adult transportation.
mojofrododojogod the whipsaw of idiocy in this article. opens with UNTHINKABLE DANGER!
One elderly man is injured, badly, leading to his death. But it's what the daughter's saying that should be the fucking headline:
"The government has been far too slow to bring in proper regulations. They should need insurance, and a registration plate, be identifiable."
You're not going to stop the tech from existing; if it exists people will try to get it. Better to legislate rules for it's safe use then you can go after the lawbreakers.
"The government has been far too slow to bring in proper regulations. They should need insurance, and a registration plate, be identifiable."
Nah, this justs adds a barrier to entry for people who aren't total assholes, and does nothing to stop assholes.
We have insurance, registration, licencing, and VIN numbers for cars. Guess what causes unthinkable danger? Car drivers. And hit-and-runs have become increasingly common.
The solution won't be easy without massively affectingly normal people, who want/need a non-car way of getting around.
oh yeah don't need rules regs and enforcement, just fewer assholes
GOOD LUCK WITH THAT PLAN YOU NUMPTY. If there were a feasible way to reduce world asshole levels we would have crashed that science program like the manhatten project.
'just make fewer assholes' pfft
if that was possible I wouldn't have had to make THIS FUCKING REPLY
jfc
Damn, I think you missed my point.
You can't disproportionately impact vulnerable groups of people by setting up artificial barriers for something like an ebike.
If we're talking about the supercharged ones, then most places already have laws around those, because they are considered something more than a basic ebike.
But if none of this is being enforced, you're just making it easier for assholes and much harder for regular people who just want to get around cheaply and easily.
And my point still stands: driving causing a significant amount of harm, and those vehicles are being controlled by licenced drivers with vehicle registration and insurance.
Trying to force the same on micromobility devices is just backwards.
One elderly man is injured, badly, leading to his death. But it’s what the daughter’s saying that should be the fucking headline:
“The government has been far too slow to bring in proper regulations. They should need insurance, and a registration plate, be identifiable.”
thanks for restating my premise all over. this convo is done.
Just test rode a Class-2 e-bike, maxing out at 20mph. Holy crap, that felt fast. Can't imagine someone willingly wanting to ride one of those flimsy things any faster.
Just get a street-legal moped or motorcycle and stay away from bike paths and pedestrians.
From what I've seen in UK, lots of kids with full face masks zipping around stealing mobiles on the lovely silent electric bikes, don't even have pedals, no reg nothing. Super convenient. Police does not seem to care, doubt they could catch them either on side walks and grass bits even if they wanted to... Uk is dropping the ball in near enough every aspect as far as your average Steve is concerned.
I love the micromobility revolution thats happening right now, but it's outpacing regulation and that's not good for anyone.
Firstly they need to address the laws, because the current rules aren't suitable.
Next they need to certify specific products. If your fat bike from temu isn't certified then it's not legal.
Finally they need to test bikes for mods.
Until all of these things are in place the whole movement will suffer.
RobotToasterThe last thing we need is the government telling us what ebikes we can build.
Hard disagree. Riders on illegally modified bikes are a menace.
FunwayguyWhen kids with freshly unboxed Christmas e-scooters can fly past my 'legal' speed e-bike on my way to work, I'm gonna cry BS on my inability to modify my bike to match my pedal cycling speed. If that makes me a 'menace' then so be it.
On my fixie I can pedal over 50km/h if I put everything I have in it. What's next, ban road bikes?
I'm surprised I have to point this out but obviously kids flying around on scooters faster than 30km/h is the problem here, not that you can't keep up with them.
hope your shitty unregulated import off-label lithium ion battery doesn't burn your flat down, murdering you, your family, and any adjoining neighbors who didn't deserve to die because of your stupid, silly choices.
The last thing we need is the government telling us what ebikes we can build.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8e84v5e4go
Yeah that's going GREAT
drktWhat will stop the rise of these souped-up and potentially fatal vehicles?
cars?
Oh my god, absolutely unthinkable that a bike might have throttle control with no pedals
makingStuffForFunWell, then it's a motorcycle. Easy.
But the danger!! Is!! Unthinkable!!
well, it depends how that motorcycle is ridden. Most motorcycles have license and insurance requirements. I wonder why these should not?
Digestive_BiscuitThey can throw the book at these illegal ebike riders. Unregistered moped, no insurance, no MOT, dangerous vehicle (by means of no MOT to prove otherwise).
BlackmistRidden on the road, fine.
Ridden down canal tow paths, cycle lanes, pavements, twitchels, places with much slower moving cyclists/pedestrians, they can fuck off.
I've no problem with them being classified as a cheap motorcycle. For their size, they shouldn't have to pay road tax either. But you should only be going faster than regular pedalling speeds on a road.
The issue is, says Ford, that these illegal e-bikes are in effect motorbikes. “These people have passed no test, have no road training and don’t have the road skills. They just get on and ride around without insurance, tax, the bike not conforming to lights and everything else it should conform to, it’s not registered with the DVLA, all these things.”
Obviously "unthinkable" is one person's opinion, but you get their point
I’ve cycled and walked in London for the last 10+ years. These silent and deadly speeders are super dangerous. I’ve seen several crashes on their account. As a cyclist, they overtake you a great speed; as a pedestrian they can be much closer much quicker than expected forcing you to misjudge if you can cross.
Yes they are dangerous. I can’t believe you need to have this explained to you.
Also the article literally gives you a clear cut case of exactly the danger of a pedestrian misjudging timings on account of their crazy speed - ended up dying. But it’s all just a joke to you of course.
I totally agree. I have a legal ebike and make sure I'm safe and within the law. I don't want to risk my driving license, or injuring anybody.
Ebikes are generally a lot heavier than a normal push bikes. The stopping distance is terrible especially down a hill. If I were to go at high speeds on it then it would be very dangerous. I should think top-end ebike have good brakes but most of the cheaper one, such as mine, do not. I am keen on upgrading the brakes though.
TheEmpireStrikesDakNot only that, they cycle on the pavement, they cycle on cycle lanes in the wrong freaking direction and then have the nerve to click their tongues at me as though I'm in the wrong. They're a scourge. They're the reason I feel safer on the road than the cycle lane. My ex saw a woman get hit by one as she was crossing at a green man. She had two little girls with her, it could have been even worse.
I'd rather the cops spent a bit of time dealing with this than arresting pensioners for holding a placard.
This phrasing is so very telling of a moral panic.
Put the blame on the horrible companies (Uber Eats) and not on the drivers, that barely make enough money to live.
Oh my God the way cops talk about ebikes here you’d think they had fentanyl in them or emitted Havana Syndrome rays. They must be a thousand times worse about it in the UK.
Oh, it’s another day and the Guardian is writing yet another hit piece on electric bikes.
its actually an issue though, I ride an e-assist that you need to pedal w a top speed of 25kph. kids, like 13 year old looking kids BURN past me without pedaling on an electric motorcycle in the bike lane.
its good people are using ebikes, yes, but its not good that people are driving electric motorcycles without training or insurance.
Maybe make legal ones easier to get? More cycle lanes? Allow them uber drivers to sit a test so they know how to use the overpowered ones? Then it becomes less dangerous
I mean nothing stops Uber drivers from getting a moped license.
The bikes are cheaper than a moped
Because they are illegal mopeds. Manufacturing them is cheaper when they don’t have to use money to pass any of the safety regulations and requirements of actual mopeds.
you mean airbags? Crumple zones? Toxic emmisions standards?…
That’s not the reason and you know it.
If they are built to spec, then it should be trivial for the manufacturers to make a legal version for those who want one, no? They could still keep selling the other version too, it would literally be the same vehicle after all, one would just have the required papers.
You know that’s not the reason. Stop telling yourself lies
Oh good another alarmist panic article about how ebikes are a ’super duper danger apocalypse going to murder your child’ level threat because they go 20mph or whatever.
That kid on a surron without pedals and a 8kw motor is not riding an ebike, its an offroad motorcycle, I wish politicians and the news would get that right for once.
If you think e-bikes are unthinkably dangerous, wait until you hear about cars
The horror, and yet cars that can do 200km/hr are legal
tHiNk oF tHE chILdREn
If they go faster than the e-bike limit (which may be low, but that’s the current law) they are defacto unregistered, probably unlicensed motorbikes on cycle paths, often driven recklessly, no need for new laws, just enforce the current ones. This will increase adoption of e-bikes and acoustic bikes as people will be safe using the infrastructure.
Paint some different colored lines on the roads, that’ll fix it.
They just want ppl to get a loicense