Because the big players there are not serious idealogues, they are paid a paltry sum through private channels to constantly spread Russian and Chinese disinformation in their larger psyop campaign against the West.
Exactly. Watch the downvotes for your comment roll in as day becomes night in the west.
as day becomes night in the west.
Title of my wild west themed romance novel
I think I saw that in LaGuardia. Cover has a cowboy rubbing his horse’s backside as the sun sets behind the old saloon?
Oh FUCK! That illustration was supposed to be part of a series on centaur fucking for tumblr!
A whopping two downvotes, yeah I’m sure the paid social media spam targets the 17k active users on lemmy.world and not the billions of users on Facebook
It’s only 2 PM in California.
It’s bedtime here now, nothing changed. Care to re-evaluate your conspiracy theories yet?
The downvotes quadrupled while the upvotes failed to double. I think I’ll keep my theory a little longer.
71 to 6 lol
Even though these countries do run media spam operations, they usually target specific events and communities with a wide reach.
Most of the people you find here will be irl people with differing views, not paid shills to spam posts.
Also by these countries, I mean every country does this. You usually don’t see US spam because they do it against Russia and China which means their spam will be in Russian, Chinese, etc.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/
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I think you two need to check your tin foil supply.
Highly doubtful. The amount of time, money, and effort would be much better spent elsewhere. Lemmy’s audience is very small.
Yeah, more likely the actors on Lemmy are just useful idiots parroting propaganda points they’ve heard elsewhere.
Time
Basically none on the part of the handlers. Often this arrangement is handled by a private firm that doesn’t necessarily have to be Russian or Chinese, I have heard of one operating in Australia. The posters themselves are spending a lot of time, but they’re the ones selling it.
Money
Again, they’re not exactly paying these guys a living wage, and even if they were, it’s peanut crumbs for state-level actors.
Effort
A lot of people say that Lemmy is not worth the effort to demoralize because it’s too small, I say the effort is too small to not be worth the investment. I would even say that Lemmy users are self-selected for radicalization in some ways, broadly speaking they are fed up with corporate social media and corporatism in general.
It’s also a somewhat important step to have a place they can speak unfiltered amongst themselves, no matter how small the clubhouse is. That’s where the real funky shit happens.
I doubt those people are even aware of Lemmy, let alone hiring teams of people to post here. But regardless of how plausible it is, this is just speculation with no evidence behind it.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
commercial and propaganda bots have a tendency of taking small fora, and other sites with the ability to post, offline, as they overwhelm these super tiny venues, once their automated scrapers find them. There doesn’t have to be a team of people doing something other than monitoring bots.
Also, I doubt anyone gets exposed to lemmy alone. It is very reasonable to believe many spend time on places worth using actual people to tailor their messaging to, and then carry that over here, and anywhere else they go. Point being, there no place so small that it becomes void of this.
Most of the users people are complaining about are very obviously not bots though. After investigating and interacting with them, I’ve universally found that they’re just weird, terminally online people with extreme views.
Actually, an offline friend of mine was recently accused of being an online shill. I’ve been pretty skeptical of these claims for a while but having a case with definitive proof has lost me all patience for these types of accusations. There’s just no point in accusing people like this unless you have actual proof. Most people are very very bad at distinguishing real users from propaganda.
Oh, I am not trying to say these particular people are bots, I am just pointing out that lemmy is not free of bots due to its size, also that there people are not solely on lemmy, so they are likely getting propaganda , in bot farm form, elsewhere, be it the US, Russia, China, EU, Exxon, whatever.
debatable though.
Lemmy is very lefty, by nature, it could be considered that causing dissent within broadly the lefty sphere, in a targetted fashion, such as through the IP conflict, would be considered worthwhile.
It could even be worthwhile for other reasons, preventing people from caring about the ukraine conflict for example.
Though i think other people are right with the useful idiots. I would argue it’s still summing up to a propaganda outlet, it’s just free labor instead.
I agree that people here are uncritically regurgitating propaganda but of course liberals are also guilty of this. Frankly, it’s fairly difficult to avoid in this era. Most sources of information are controlled by or at minimum influenced by various powerful forces in society, each with their own interests.
I guess it is a little more surprising to see people absorbing propaganda from hostile foreign nations than from their own. But another part of me thinks I’m not being critical enough of the idea of nationalism which is a harmful and largely fictional concept.
I agree that people here are uncritically regurgitating propaganda but of course liberals are also guilty of this.
fair enough, i mean everybody is, although i think the ideology of liberalism is uniquely suited to it since it’s a sort of meta ideology in it’s own right. When appropriately used it should be pretty hard to get mislead, but of course, people aren’t very smart and use things incorrectly all the time, so that doesn’t really help much. But there’s an argument to be made for it over things like conservatism and communism where those tend to be a lot more rampant by design.
Most sources of information are controlled by or at minimum influenced by various powerful forces in society, each with their own interests.
this is true, but there is also an equally big, if not larger trap you can fall into with alternative media, just look at the republican party right now. It’s on par with the nazi propaganda machine in terms of how well it functions.
I guess it is a little more surprising to see people absorbing propaganda from hostile foreign nations than from their own.
this one is definitely the most baffling to me. The fact that US citizens will unironically consume sources like RT for actual news is wild.
But another part of me thinks I’m not being critical enough of the idea of nationalism which is a harmful and largely fictional concept.
I would argue that there is an inherently negative value in nationalism, aside from support of that governing body itself, and an innate positive value in something like patriotism instead.
For anyone that needs to hear it, you can have both. You can live in a free society and also plot to bisect your nearest oligarch next time they go to their favorite sushi restaurant
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I really like the troll accounts. Being told that I should be killed in a genocide because I voted is exactly the kind of absurd humor I love
And that works perfectly fine. Also, I like Lemmy the size it is now, but people who want to see Lemmy grow into a mainstream platform, are shit out of luck while these folks still roam our midsts
unless we grow, in which case they get shunted into like 1% corner hole of the community somewhere that everybody points and laughs at.
Though that requires growing first lmao.
Is there any other kind of genocide besides institutionalized?
I guess commonplace decentralized pogroms like what happened to Jews and Roma throughout Europe historically
if everyone would mutually agree on killing certain people they could commit it without an institution ig
Is class warfare institutionalized? Seems like a non conscious consensus sometimes
but they do need the state to protect their property, so it’s institutionalised imo
Is class warfare institutionalized?
More like fictionalized.
i don’t think genocide is capable of being conceptualized in any way outside of meta conceptualization.
The second you break the outside of the strict definitions of genocide, and start moving to who is doing it, the genocide is no longer relevant, you have larger concerns on your hands. (granted still all tangentially related to the genocide at hand)
But nobody ever thinks about genocide as intrinsically related to something else, it is simply an isolated definition for a specific act undertaken by a given group, against another given group.
if you wanted to break that mold you would use a different term like ethnic cleansing, for example.
I suppose a population could try to genocide another population without the government support.
honestly Palestine/Hamas was trying to commit genocide too but they got uno reverse carded
They are in fact trying the classical definition of genocide, the death of every Jew in Israel and the removal of the country.
Removal of a country, to my knowledge, was never part of any definition of genocide. The term genocide has always referred to people, not states.
Yes true, that was a brainfart.
Most often it’s about stateless peoples so in a way you aren’t wrong
Well, there was more than one uno reverse card in this story once you look a few years back
That land has traded hands for thousands of years, no doubt.
That’s a funny euphemism for settler colonialism
So the genocide in Gaza is finally admitted by the liberals?
not a lib, but why would anyone here deny the gaza genocide?
Because that post is a hunt for tankies. Which is a sport done by liberals who usually support Israel in its massacre.
my theory is that people don’t have a high enough mental bandwidth to be mad at and or care about more than one thing because it’s literally just permanent rage bait.
Say what you want about the facts of the situation, but you can’t deny that most of the posting is just rage bait.
TL;DR stop being mad about things and care about stuff that’s actually important to you. It says your mental bandwidth for more important things, like making funny memes. Instead of just being mad.
US sponsored hate is behind those genocide accusations.
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holomodor was part of Ukrainian destabilization CIA programs that started the day after Ukraine independence. During a global famine, Stalin had to deal with extortionists outside of Ukraine. Stalin was also forced to pay debt to US in food, and that food was mostly shipped from Ukraine. Ukraine did better than most USSR members. Blaming Stalin for anything/everything is popular mob rule brainworm.
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China faced terrorism in Xinjiang. Fine, some people got arrested. It’s main response was education and job creation programs. Xinjiang prosperity has grown higher than average of Chinese provinces, with high investment levels. The genocide declaration is political persecution meant to impoverish the region to destabilize it rather than a principled view where “every more heavy handed act with actual documentation of intentional extermination” (Palestine) would be genocide.
The US has political corruption power in imposing determinations of genocide. Reality has no relevance to US Empire’s political will.
CIA was formed in 1947, Holodomor genocide was 1932-33🤔
The genocide revisionist propaganda was started in 1990s by CIA supported Ukrainian activists. For sure, at the time, the Ukrainian Church were loud complainers to distance/divide themselves from Russian Church, but there is no empirical evidence of Ukrainians being targeted in a difficult situation.
The genocide revisionist propaganda was started in 1990s by CIA supported Ukrainian activists.
Then some of them went back in time to the mid-1970s, when they told me of having to leave Ukraine and go to Canada because of the famines and massacres.
they told me of having to leave Ukraine and go to Canada because of the famines and massacres
this is not contradicting what humanspiral said
mid-1970’s
That’s because you trimmed the part that does, weird that you did that
Sorry, that’s my bad.
Repeat after me: The Chinese military massacred students on Tiananmen square in 1989, and Xi Jinping resembles Winnie the Pooh.
Marked Tankie please ignore, block and move on mate.
(Yes I will keep calling them out for their bullshit views and not let them spread their dumb propaganda)
Side note:
Thank you for uploading these pics to prove user notes in Voyager were a thing, I couldn’t figure out how to google for them and somehow missed the obvious tab in settings repeatedly
Seeing your pictures made me go through again as it’s obviously possible, and I’ve been restoring my tags from connect. Makes remembering people much easier
yeah this tool is so useful I just use voyager because the interface is aesthetically pleasing but since user notes have been added I’m using them constantly.
As Marco Rubio, or US state department, might say after a video documented destruction of a Palestinian hospital, I do not comment on individual cases, we will “very seriously” look into it. Hamas must stop building their military bases under hospitals, and when we kill and rape them all, it will be 100% Hamas’s fault.
There are stories. Judging by another comment that if Xi doesn’t like Winnie the Poo references, you should not only believe them, as your partriotic duty, but at the heart of every unverifiable story, you should also place direct blame at top of Chinese government.
That the region is peaceful and free today should score some points relative to such stories.
I suppose that BBC report could be wrong, but I think the BBC are usually pretty accurate, so it could well be an accurate report. It looks like the US, UK, and Australian governments believed that the report was accurate.
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what an odd place to be reminded about the sleaford mods, granted i know them from prodigy lol.
US sponsored hate is behind those genocide accusations.
ok, source?
- China faced terrorism in Xinjiang. Fine, some people got arrested. It’s main response was education and job creation programs. Xinjiang prosperity has grown higher than average of Chinese provinces, with high investment levels. The genocide declaration is political persecution meant to impoverish the region to destabilize it rather than a principled view where “every more heavy handed act with actual documentation of intentional extermination” (Palestine) would be genocide.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/31/china-unrelenting-crimes-against-humanity-targeting-uyghurs
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
so all my listes sources are us propaganda?
also please give me some independent stuff about that terrorism problem, with independent I mean something, that didn’t run through chinese censorship (which I belive you can’t deny exists)
also reeducation is inherently wrong tbh, you just force your values on others by the state
also those “jobs” that are created are slave jobs from what I’ve read
only because some province prospers, does not mean it doesn’t repress a group of people, when slavery was still a thing in the us the slaver states actually prospered the most
now, I think the uighur situation is pretty well documented for the fact, that there are no legal independent chinese media outlets
The US has political corruption power in imposing determinations of genocide. Reality has no relevance to US Empire’s political will.
ok, but from what I’ve read they’re sterilizing uighur women, kill them enslave them and “reeducate” them (reeducation is a nice term for destroying a culture)
so all my listes sources are us propaganda?
Absolutely. Including the US led corruption of UN. You can tell by the lack of documented examples. The undercover propaganda documentaries are jokes that don’t prove anything other than “Education involves similar to US pledge of allegiance “right answers” to CCP is good”.
People getting arrested for terrorist incitement/acts is not genocide. Education and job creation prosperity is not genocide. Xinjiang is also exempt from 1 child policy. The prosperity includes poverty alleviation, restaurant and cultural funding booms. It is a nice welcoming place to visit. You can see tourism videos on Youtube.
but from what I’ve read they’re sterilizing uighur women,
There are reports of this. (not your slavery claim). Such reports can be coached for political diminishment purposes. The more that you want BS to be true, the friendlier you are to volunteering liars. Uyghur used to be allowed to have more children than Han. New policy is that all are equal.
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/china/population-birth-rate-by-region/cn-population-birth-rate-xinjiang
This happens to be higher than Chinese average, and triple the birth rate of US, with the 2023 bounceback, but even at 2021 (covid) low, over double the US. So why is US genociding itself according to this politicization? There is US politicization that “transgender immigrant cat eating rapists are invading the country” too. Just because the next congress might successfully impeach Biden for such treason, won’t make it true instead of political BS. The US, like Israel, is capable of lying, and willing to, and now in fact desperate to make any and every, lie to advance its empire.
ok, you’re baslly saying china is a perfect utopia and everything bad about them is made up by the us, got it
you see, the world becomes very simple when you think like that
but there must surely be some sources that help your claim that everything of that is just propaganda
Ukraine did better than most USSR members.
“Better” only in the sense of having a higher death toll: 7 to 10 million out of a total population of about 30 million.
Xinjiang prosperity has grown higher than average of Chinese provinces, with high investment levels.
Those high investment levels being funneled exclusively to Han Chinese who have been brought in to displace the Uighurs who have been put into camps.
The genocide declaration is political persecution
Right, and putting people into camps in order to exterminate their ethnic identity isn’t.
He’s tagged mate please block, ignore and move on.
“Better” only in the sense of having a higher death toll: 7 to 10 million out of a total population of about 30 million.
More credible number is: 3.9 million in Ukraine, 3.3 million in Russia, and 1.3 million in Kazakhstan.
Kazakhstan being the highest per capita. Holomodor is a Ukrainian word used specifically to politically get US and its colonies to validate Ukrainian nationalist hatred. The only places that recognized the political “lets demonize Stalin” and make up your numbers to do so.
username is uh, weirdly fitting.
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