• Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      ·
      11 days ago

      Too many people don’t understand this point. When we force the interest rate to be low that’s allowing more loans which creates more money. So when the Republicans come in and promise to stop printing money and lower interest rates for mortgages… Alarm bells should be going off. But we’re too busy teaching kids to repeat lists of names and places to teach them real stuff.

      • lad@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        10 days ago

        I never thought about it from this angle. But I did think about it from a different one: loans allow for an increase in demand and that increases prices. So either way, it will up the inflation

    • lapping6596@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      11 days ago

      Could you explain this a bit further or share and article or video that goes into it further?

      I’ve heard this before, but am struggling to wrap my head around it. Doesn’t the bank need to have the money to loan it out? I feel like I’m missing some piece of the equation.

      • sandalbucket@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        11 days ago

        It’s called “Fractional Reserve Banking”. The bank only needs to have about 10% of a loan on hand.

        If a bank has $100, they can write a loan for $1,000; effectively putting $900 more into circulation. When that is spent, it gets deposited into a bank, which can then loan it out amplified again.

        This could create infinite money, as I understand it. Since there is not infinite money, there must be a gap in my understanding somewhere.

        • geissi@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          ·
          11 days ago

          Afaik some countries have dropped reserve requirements altogether.
          Loans can be given out as long as the recipient is credit worthy.

        • Hanrahan@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          9 days ago

          If a bank has $100, they can write a loan for $1,000; effectively putting $900 more into circulation. When that is spent, it gets deposited into a bank, which can then loan it out amplified again.

          Since there is not infinite money, there must be a gap in my understanding somewhere.

          While this is true, the only “new money” created in that loan is the interest becase the capital is paid back , albeit over decades.

      • reallykindasorta@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        11 days ago

        I like Geoff Mann’s description: “When money is released into general circulation by a bank or a state, it is always issued via the process of debt creation. Which is to say, even though it is hard for many of us to believe, that much if not most of the money in circulation is produced when someone or some institution goes into debt. (Remember it need not be physical currency to circulate; currency represents a very small fraction of circulating money.) For example, when someone borrows money from a bank, it is not as if the bank has that money in bills and coins in a safe in the basement, nor does it have it in “digital” form. Instead, by lending money to the borrower (and thereby fulfilling its obligation to the debt contract), the bank basically “creates” that money. It simply creates a big hole in its own accounts, with a “minus” sign beside it. The debt contract stipulates that the borrower’s obligation is to fill the hole by a set date. The money loaned does not need to pre-exist the debt contract. Which means that the debt contract literally creates the money, because the big hole the bank placed in its own accounts is mirrored by an equally large “pile” in the borrower’s account. The borrower spends that money in the economy, and, in addition to the interest that is the price of using this money, slowly pays the bank back to fill the hole. The money produced via the loan is issued to the borrower who is then indebted, and the money represents the means of settling that debt.

        The debt in this example is obviously private (be-tween a borrower and a private bank), but money produced by the creation of their credit-debt contract can circulate generally in the public realm-if you borrow to pay your tuition, the money you borrow is not special money only you can use. Your school can use it to pay instructors and buy office furniture, instructors can use it to buy groceries, and so on. The money is a product of your indebtedness, and you can transfer it to whomever you please- it is transferable debt. Now, in theory, a bank cannot go on creating money in this way without limit. Modern banking systems have regulated “capital requirements”; some portion of a banks money-loan portfolio must be covered by reserves of cash or cash-like assets. But the ratio in most capitalist nation-states is only around 10 percent, often even less.

        Thus, at least in theory, unless all banks are simultaneously maxed out on their lending— unlikely, and even if it did happen, the banks merely have to go raise some more money to add to their reserves— the money supply can change size in response to demand for loans without direct state involvement.

        Similarly, when the state creates money via spend-ing, “printing,” borrowing, etc., the money issued is a form of state debt. State-issued money is a claim on the state by the holder of the money, and it circulates among all the other private bank-issued debt-money: transferable debt. So, for example, when you come to settle your account with the state (pay your taxes, say), the state must accept its own credit-issue as legitimate means of redemption. The money is transferable debt that must be accepted as equivalent to the abstract unit of account.“

  • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    32
    ·
    11 days ago

    The whole concept of “just printing money” is SUPER outdated anyway in a world where the vast majority of money is digital and the size of some of the largest hoards have no significant relation to the availability of physical currency.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      11 days ago

      I think this is lost on a lot of people. You used to have to physically store assets or money in order to have that money. You no longer need to. This breaking of money from physicality has second and third order effects that Keynes and Friedman just weren’t equipped to understand. Credit in large organizations or wealthy families approaches digitalization but it’s not actually the same thing as 90% of the country holding their money in digital accounts that can be fractionally leveraged by the banks.

      At the end of the day we need new big theories on the behavior of digital economies. MMT is a step in the right direction but we need more. Especially work on systems of distribution. We’re effectively in a post scarcity world but we insist on a distribution of basic goods that creates scarcity.

      • ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        ·
        edit-2
        10 days ago

        My sister works for the wealth management software fintech company Addepar that Peter Thiel founded as a quality control engineer :| this is a sentiment she has echoed. Specifically that we live in a post scarcity world, but governments/society have not caught up to that.

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          11 days ago

          Alright, think about this for a minute. We produce enough food to feed everyone on the planet. But even without war or closed borders there are countries where people go hungry. Purely for economic reasons.

          There’s enough housing in the US to house all of the homeless. But we don’t want to support rural areas so people have to move away. And we treat housing as an investment activity so instead of building to need, developers build to market. That means there will never be enough in the large metro markets because if there was, they would lose money.

          I can go on. The idea that capitalism is the most efficient system of distributing goods is fatally flawed.

    • CyberTailor@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      11 days ago

      “Printing money” is a metaphor, of course most money now is just virtual numbers.

      Which makes it even easier for a government to create and spend it :)

      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        11 days ago

        Which makes it even easier for a government to create and spend it :)

        Or a bank. Or a billionaire. Or a hedge fund. Or a stock market maximizing algorithm.

        My point is that the amount of money in existence is no longer centralized or anywhere near as relevant as how it’s accumulated and ESPECIALLY how both it and tangible resources are distributed.

        Gandhi figured out that “there is enough in this world to satisfy every man’s need, but not enough for every man’s greed” over half a century ago when ACTUAL scarcity was much more widespread and the rich were many times more constricted by laws and regulations than now.

        Mentioning “Printing money”, even metaphorically, is nothing but a distraction from the things that actually matter and make a difference one way or the other.

        • CyberTailor@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          10 days ago

          Or a bank. Or a billionaire. Or a hedge fund. Or a stock market maximizing algorithm.

          Only government has full control over its national currency via central bank and taxes. It’s not decentralized, as every commercial bank needs to get a loan from the central bank, and people have to pay taxes in national currency.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            10 days ago

            As other have mentioned, we operate with Fractional Reserve Lending, so most Money is not created by governments but by banks when the lend money.

            Here is an article from the Bank Of England on it in case you think this is bullshit.

            Government control over money creation is, nowadays, mostly indirect via reserve criteria which is a lot softer that the direct control over money printing in the old days.

            Your idea of how money is created is at least 30 years out of date.

    • CyberTailor@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      11 days ago

      and the size of some of the largest hoards have no significant relation to the availability of physical currency

      Also true. Only MB money aggregate is in active circulation.

    • drdiddlybadger@pawb.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      ·
      11 days ago

      No it’s just more complicated than just print more.

      Effectively the monetary supply is limited by the productive capacity/economic output of the country. If the nation or system doesn’t have enough output to cover new currency, it causes inflation as effectly 2 dollars are being used to represent the value of 1 dollar of work.

      • anarchrist@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        11 days ago

        It’s basically what China does, right? I remember a while back someone calling China a “currency manipulator” with the force of a slur, so I assume it’s the kind of thing that really pisses off free market fetishists

  • Franconian_Nomad@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    11 days ago

    Hyperinflation of the Weimarer Republik says „Guten Tag!“

    Seriously, just printing money has the potential to go catastrophically wrong.

    • geissi@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      11 days ago

      Hyperinflation is typically caused when you’re printing money to buy foreign currency as a means of servicing foreign debt as was the case in Weimar era Germany.
      The increased supply lowers exchange rates, which in turn means you need to print more money.

      As long as you have free economic capacity domestically, spending money for it to be used won’t cause hyperinflation.