There was an ATM sign at a souvenir shop, so I entered to use it. Walked in circles looking for it… sometimes they are very well hidden. Staff asked me what I was looking for. “The ATM”. They said “that’s me… just tell me how much you want and tap your card on the terminal.

It’s an interesting option for shops because if the cash comes from the register then that keeps the register light, thus fewer bank deposits and lower security risk.

But how does it work? The staff were at a loss to answer questions. They warned: if you have visa, the fees will be 11%. Yikes! Extortionate. Very hard to believe that’s even legal in Europe. Staff said most people use maestro (of course, Netherlands), but really bizarre that visa customers would be charged a staggering 11% and maestro 0%. I asked if it’s really an ATM transaction because that makes a big difference if the card is a credit card. A credit card at ATMs is doing a cash advance which has a cash advance fee on top of the interest. But what is this 11%? ATMs never charge a high percentage like that. I wonder if there is some DCC¹ funny business. Or maybe it’s some wild speculation about what the card holder’s bank would charge.

There is such a thing as cash back that does not require a purchase. I think they use an ATM signposting because they think consumers are unaware of cash back. So it’s a dumbing down. Perhaps fair enough, but the staff was clueless. Whatever is going on in that shop, the owner just put up a sign without informing their own staff as to the nature of the beast.

I opted not to use it because I had no certainty what the fees would be. No way of knowing whether my bank would charge a cash advance fee or whether I’d get hit with an 11% money-grab.

¹dynamic currency conversion (which by law must be the consumer’s choice)

  • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlNederlands
    6·
    7 days ago

    A large part of credit card fees usually come from the banks themselves. Some businesses just increase their prices to cover the cost but that’s not really a thing here, so credit card users will pay more by default. 11% sounds high (twice the amount for a non-EER card) but if you’re using a card that’s rarely accepted in a store rather than an ATM, the fee doesn’t sound too extreme. I’m pretty sure I’ve paid more in Budapest.

    That said, I’ve never heard of store cashback being called an ATM. You can get that in some stores, but it’s usually not exactly an advertised feature. The fact it was a tourist shop makes me think they’re doing this to take advantage of tourists who don’t know any better. I don’t think it’s illegal per se, just a terrible deal nobody should take. There are real, legitimate ATMs around (most of them labeled “geldmaat” but there are others, like the GWX branded ones) that should be less sketchy. You can find them on most map apps (openstreetmaps have them, which Apple and Google regularly import data from).

    It should be noted that even with “official” ATMs there are also fees for using non-EU cards but at least they’re publicly documented. These are tiered prices, so depending on how much you withdraw there’s a fee between 95% to 1% for using these services. These ATMs should give you the DCC option, though, after which the payment processing fee becomes 5%. So, when withdrawing more than 100 euros, going non-DCC may be cheaper, but you’ll have to do the math on that.

    These percentages are kind of shit because banks treat each other like shit. Foreign banks charge European banks through the nose, so European banks return the favour. For out of network cards, the foreign bank is essentially taking on all the risk, as stolen credit cards can hit banks with chargebacks and there’s not much a foreign bank can do. Even with debit cards the bank is often paying out long before they’ll get their money back from your bank, if at all, because the systems aren’t lined up for direct transfer. Wiring cash from the EER to the USA can take ages because of this stuff and you’re not waiting three to five business days to withdraw your cash from an ATM! Neither the EER nor the non-EER banks are eager to alter their payment infrastructure to take on the risk themselves, so you get terrible rates and a terrible experience to boot.

    As for Maestro, that’s on its way out because Mastercard (which is behind Maestro) is shutting down the system. Dutch banks are moving towards Mastercard debit cards now. I don’t think I’ve seen someone use a Visa credit card here (I don’t think they’re accepted often), though the Visa sub brand V-Pay does get used by Dutch banks. The big difference between here and many other countries isn’t necessarily the Visa vs Mastercard distinction, but rather debit versus credit. Credit cards are pretty rare and they generally cost more for little benefit, so they’re rarely used. And, because you’re not borrowing money, the payment processing fees are generally lower too, which helps keep prices down. Dutch credit cards also don’t usually come with stuff like cashbacks (which really are just a bank’s customers paying for their own “gifts” from the bank, a ridiculous system IMO) so there’s little reason to use them. As a result, many stores will either not pay for credit card processing capabilities or have the worst possible deals/surcharges because the probability of someone coming in with a Visa credit card is just so low that it’s not worth the monthly fee. It you’re staying here for a while, you’re better off taking out a European bank account (one of those online banks will do) and using that to pay, because EER debit card fees are almost always 0% here.