Victorian Police Chief Commissioner Shane Patton has labelled the actions of a group of protesters who confronted police at the annual Midsumma Pride march as "abhorrent".
“But protesters said police shouldn’t be allowed to participate in the event given why people began protesting in the 1970s.”
Ok so cops today get paint thrown at them for events that happened 40 or 50 years ago? That doesn’t seem reasonable to me. Some police today weren’t even born when this stuff happened, but they nonetheless get punished away?
I really do think this sins of the father stuff has to stop. This is exactly how centuries long feuds between groups of people keep going. And the idea of collective punishment is an appalling doctrine which is what this kind of stuff amounts to as well.
On a practical level, punishing police who support lgbt is not helpful and will do nothing to stamp out those pockets of police that are still problematic.
And above all else, uniform aside these are individuals and should be treated with respect. Just seeing the uniform and nothing else really is dehumanising.
You’re not “supporting LGBT” if the first thing you do when something you don’t like happens is start attacking them physically and in the press.
Most people couldn’t give a shit if someone employed as a police officer went full bore ham at pride. It’s the marching in uniform that is the big fucking issue. This could have been avoided. It could have been acknowledged as a bad idea. People have not been subtle about “We do not want uniformed police officers acting like we are their PR machine” for literal years now. But they went ahead anyway in defiance of all logic and sentiment, shit happened and now it’s OHH THE ABHORRENTSSSSSSSSSS
It is not. helping. matters. And they have to see that - so why do they keep persisting?
Some police are. That doesn’t justify what was done. Are you going to throw paint on Palestinians for what Hamas did? It’s the same kind of thinking - collective guilt. One of your colleagues did something bad so fuck you, you’re going to cop it. Sorry that’s not justice, that’s just hate.
If your colleagues are being attacked would you really stand back and do nothing? That’s not reasonable. The police still have to restore order.
Some people as you put it do not get to decide who can or can’t march in pride. Pride is for everyone , even for police in uniform if they come in the right spirit. It’s not the decision to make of a handful who can or cannot attend. They had a childish dummy spit because they didn’t get their way.
What exactly are they aiming for? Perfect behavior from every police officer forever more? That’s not realistic. Every profession will always have dodgy cunts and always will. Police can try and have policies and procedures in place but demanding perfection before deciding they want police to march really is silly.
And again uniform or not, throwing paint on someone is a form of assault and it’s not legal. What did they think was going to happen in the media? A pat on the back and hugs and kisses?
really can’t help feeling you’re being a bit deliberately obtuse here
The police uniform is an instantly identifiable marker of an institution that has been harming the community since forever. That “dark history” that’s referred to in the article? That’s not just “cops were beating up protestors” it’s “people were protesting because cops were murdering us with impunity”
The issue is with the institution - you’re acting like it’s the individuals. Individuals aren’t the uniform. The uniform is worn as part of a job. Demanding to march in that uniform is demanding to march as the institution. You gonna keep pretending you don’t see why there would be an issue with that?
Witches and Faggots, Dykes and Poofters is a really good documentary about the first pride in Sydney in 1978. There are first hand accounts of just why cops shouldn’t be at pride.
I think you are missing the point. If the institution has an official policy of being anti lgbt and it was systemic then I might have some sympathy for your argument, but it’s not at that level. And let’s face it if it was really that bad cops wouldn’t want march anyway.
Vicpol has over 20,000 employees and it is absolutely ridiculous to stop police marching outright because of the actions of a few.
And I stand by my point that it doesn’t justify attacking innocent individuals, not now, not ever, in uniform or otherwise. That’s called respecting individual rights and liberty. You don’t get to attack someone just because they put on a uniform. If you think that’s ok I can’t help you.
And as for history lots of bad things happened in history. The answer is not to bring it into the present with more toxic and hostile behavior from either side.
lots of bad things happened in history. The answer is not to bring it into the present with more toxic and hostile behavior
so uh, how come the queer community has to be the bigger guy here and not the cops?
'cos you keep going “oh sins of the father” “history history history” like it’s before anyone was born while I’m also talking about events that happened this decade.
I’ve already addressed your point. It’s immoral to punish one group of people for someone else’s actions.
It’s not official policy of police to target lgbt, police management aren’t condoning dodgy behavior and yes it’s not easy to stamp out problem police. It’s an ongoing process and always will be. Ergo it’s silly to ban police from the march and sickening to see attacks on innocent police for something someone else did. Black and white thinking and not seeing someone’s humanity is problematic.
Our justice system is based on punishment against individuals and not collectives. If you like the idea of collective punishment there are many other countries you can move to where that kind of thing is acceptable.
This is unfortunately another form of tribalism and us versus them mentality where there’s really no need for it. The entire police force are not out to get LGBT in this country.
It is entirely possible to recognize the small pockets of problem police whilst at the same time celebrating and supporting those police doing good work. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
So who’s protesting what and why and why were the cops attacked?
Cops don’t belong at pride events wearing the uniforms traditionally used to kick the shit out of the community
“But protesters said police shouldn’t be allowed to participate in the event given why people began protesting in the 1970s.”
Ok so cops today get paint thrown at them for events that happened 40 or 50 years ago? That doesn’t seem reasonable to me. Some police today weren’t even born when this stuff happened, but they nonetheless get punished away?
I really do think this sins of the father stuff has to stop. This is exactly how centuries long feuds between groups of people keep going. And the idea of collective punishment is an appalling doctrine which is what this kind of stuff amounts to as well.
On a practical level, punishing police who support lgbt is not helpful and will do nothing to stamp out those pockets of police that are still problematic.
And above all else, uniform aside these are individuals and should be treated with respect. Just seeing the uniform and nothing else really is dehumanising.
They are not the “sins of the fathers” Police are still doing very real harm to the community.
You’re not “supporting LGBT” if the first thing you do when something you don’t like happens is start attacking them physically and in the press.
Most people couldn’t give a shit if someone employed as a police officer went full bore ham at pride. It’s the marching in uniform that is the big fucking issue. This could have been avoided. It could have been acknowledged as a bad idea. People have not been subtle about “We do not want uniformed police officers acting like we are their PR machine” for literal years now. But they went ahead anyway in defiance of all logic and sentiment, shit happened and now it’s OHH THE ABHORRENTSSSSSSSSSS
It is not. helping. matters. And they have to see that - so why do they keep persisting?
Some police are. That doesn’t justify what was done. Are you going to throw paint on Palestinians for what Hamas did? It’s the same kind of thinking - collective guilt. One of your colleagues did something bad so fuck you, you’re going to cop it. Sorry that’s not justice, that’s just hate.
If your colleagues are being attacked would you really stand back and do nothing? That’s not reasonable. The police still have to restore order.
Some people as you put it do not get to decide who can or can’t march in pride. Pride is for everyone , even for police in uniform if they come in the right spirit. It’s not the decision to make of a handful who can or cannot attend. They had a childish dummy spit because they didn’t get their way.
What exactly are they aiming for? Perfect behavior from every police officer forever more? That’s not realistic. Every profession will always have dodgy cunts and always will. Police can try and have policies and procedures in place but demanding perfection before deciding they want police to march really is silly.
And again uniform or not, throwing paint on someone is a form of assault and it’s not legal. What did they think was going to happen in the media? A pat on the back and hugs and kisses?
really can’t help feeling you’re being a bit deliberately obtuse here
The police uniform is an instantly identifiable marker of an institution that has been harming the community since forever. That “dark history” that’s referred to in the article? That’s not just “cops were beating up protestors” it’s “people were protesting because cops were murdering us with impunity”
The issue is with the institution - you’re acting like it’s the individuals. Individuals aren’t the uniform. The uniform is worn as part of a job. Demanding to march in that uniform is demanding to march as the institution. You gonna keep pretending you don’t see why there would be an issue with that?
Witches and Faggots, Dykes and Poofters is a really good documentary about the first pride in Sydney in 1978. There are first hand accounts of just why cops shouldn’t be at pride.
I think you are missing the point. If the institution has an official policy of being anti lgbt and it was systemic then I might have some sympathy for your argument, but it’s not at that level. And let’s face it if it was really that bad cops wouldn’t want march anyway.
Vicpol has over 20,000 employees and it is absolutely ridiculous to stop police marching outright because of the actions of a few.
And I stand by my point that it doesn’t justify attacking innocent individuals, not now, not ever, in uniform or otherwise. That’s called respecting individual rights and liberty. You don’t get to attack someone just because they put on a uniform. If you think that’s ok I can’t help you.
And as for history lots of bad things happened in history. The answer is not to bring it into the present with more toxic and hostile behavior from either side.
so uh, how come the queer community has to be the bigger guy here and not the cops?
'cos you keep going “oh sins of the father” “history history history” like it’s before anyone was born while I’m also talking about events that happened this decade.
I’ve already addressed your point. It’s immoral to punish one group of people for someone else’s actions.
It’s not official policy of police to target lgbt, police management aren’t condoning dodgy behavior and yes it’s not easy to stamp out problem police. It’s an ongoing process and always will be. Ergo it’s silly to ban police from the march and sickening to see attacks on innocent police for something someone else did. Black and white thinking and not seeing someone’s humanity is problematic.
Our justice system is based on punishment against individuals and not collectives. If you like the idea of collective punishment there are many other countries you can move to where that kind of thing is acceptable.
This is unfortunately another form of tribalism and us versus them mentality where there’s really no need for it. The entire police force are not out to get LGBT in this country.
It is entirely possible to recognize the small pockets of problem police whilst at the same time celebrating and supporting those police doing good work. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
They were protesting the police marching in the pride parade
How is that bad?
The police marching at Pride or the protesters?
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