More than a thousand Harvard students walked out of their commencement ceremony yesterday to support 13 undergraduates who were barred from graduating after they participated in the Gaza solidarity encampment in Harvard Yard. Asmer Safi, one of the 13 pro-Palestinian student protesters barred from graduating, says that while his future has been thrown into uncertainty while he is on probation, he has no regrets about standing up for Palestinian rights. “This is an ethical stance that we’re taking,” Safi says. We also hear from history professor Alison Frank Johnson, one of over 100 faculty members who voted to confer degrees on the 13 seniors, who describes Harvard’s punishment of them as an “egregious departure from past precedent,” as was the board’s subsequent overruling of faculty. “We hoped then that the Corporation, as it has always done in the past, would accept our recommendations for degree recipients and allow the 13 to graduate, which they chose not to do.”
More than a thousand Harvard students walked out of their commencement ceremony yesterday to support 13 undergraduates who were barred from graduating after they participated in the Gaza solidarity encampment in Harvard Yard.
Asmer Safi, one of the 13 pro-Palestinian student protesters barred from graduating, says that while his future has been thrown into uncertainty while he is on probation, he has no regrets about standing up for Palestinian rights.
In cases were errors can mean death, people will simply not be allowed to practice without the kind of “practical learning whilst under supervision and being assessed” that you see for example for doctors, and which are incredibly hard to conduct outside a formal education environment so in practice you’ll probably not find it (often only people who are trained doctors from countries whose universities are not recognized locally get that kind of opportunities without going through the local formal education system so that they can gain compatibility and practice locally).
In other areas it’s just because practically the having a Diploma or not is an easy way to prune down tons of candidates for entry-level positions: for example if you’re a hiring manager in IT still having to do all the other work alongside hiring and you have 20 candidates for a single entry level position, putting aside those who neither have relevant job experience nor a Diploma is pretty logical and has a high probability of avoid wasting time with people who have no clue how to do the job - you need to be pretty free of other work to spend the time interviewing all 20 candidates just in case one of the has all the necessary knowledge but no proof of it.
Mind you, even things like Software Development still hire people without Diplomas - they just have to show relevant experience such as having worked in an adjacent area which also uses those skill or having participated in open source projects.
However going through the whole paid for formal education process to get a Diploma and then not actually being able to work in that area because there are far fewer jobs that graduates can indeed often be considered a con - it really depends on how useful all that preparation in a formal education setting ends up being for your actual job.
I apologize for not responding to this sooner - you took the time to write that out and I had obligations which didn’t leave me much time to read through it.
First off- I agree completely that it depends significantly on the field- this was my reason for not stating all educational paths are irrelevant. With a nod to your mention of pruning - it doesn’t appear to be solving much considering how bad the entry level job market is for a lot of graduates. I have been fortunate in my career and know people from both camps. Both sides will freely admit the grass looks greener on the other side (which I would take as an acknowledgement of similarity.)
My issue is and remains with the for-profit education system we have now. We have basically sold these young minds on “you need to go to college or you will struggle and fail as an adult.” It doesn’t matter what field you take college is the only path. We then have a surplus of graduates flooding a market that simply cannot absorb that many new bodies. Aforementioned graduates have debt and a need to find work to pay that debt down … and they are desperate. Perfect. Here’s your underpaid entry level position with 0 job security - work harder than you should to maybe have a chance of not being laid off come earnings season.
Capitalism does not belong in higher education - and when that higher education wants to stand on some ivory tower and hold a students livelihood hostage? Fuck them. They may offer structured education but they do not gate keep learning. I digress.
Generally speaking I think your views more or less fall into the “technically yes, but it’s complicated” category… which I have 0 issues with. Education is complicated. Especially now- and I think a lot of the discussions that draw focus to it and its issues are valuable. Cheers.
Oh, yeah, I agree with you that at a systemic level, for-profit education isn’t serving the best interests of people in general or even of a country.
And it’s simply due to how any private company works: their objective is to maximize shareholder (or stakeholder, for companies which don’t have shares) returns, nothing else - they might provide the “customer” with something positive if that’s what it takes to generate said returns, but what you see very often in complex enough situations or those where the final outcomes for the “customer” take a long time to materialize is the companies selling something that ultimatelly doesn’t provide the promised benefit to the customer.
The For-profit motivation has no place in things which are strategical for a country’s future and its people, and that includes Education IMHO.
Personally I’m fortunate to have been born in a country where higher education is mainly a Public service (there are a few Private Universities nowadays, but they’re not considered the best ones) and selection for entrance is reasonably meritocratic (based entirelly on grades and domain specific entrance tests, though people who went to better highschools in nicer neighbourhoods or whose parents were themselves highly educated, provided them a good environment and taught them good practices like reading, still have some advantage).
It massivelly, massivelly depends on the area.
In cases were errors can mean death, people will simply not be allowed to practice without the kind of “practical learning whilst under supervision and being assessed” that you see for example for doctors, and which are incredibly hard to conduct outside a formal education environment so in practice you’ll probably not find it (often only people who are trained doctors from countries whose universities are not recognized locally get that kind of opportunities without going through the local formal education system so that they can gain compatibility and practice locally).
In other areas it’s just because practically the having a Diploma or not is an easy way to prune down tons of candidates for entry-level positions: for example if you’re a hiring manager in IT still having to do all the other work alongside hiring and you have 20 candidates for a single entry level position, putting aside those who neither have relevant job experience nor a Diploma is pretty logical and has a high probability of avoid wasting time with people who have no clue how to do the job - you need to be pretty free of other work to spend the time interviewing all 20 candidates just in case one of the has all the necessary knowledge but no proof of it.
Mind you, even things like Software Development still hire people without Diplomas - they just have to show relevant experience such as having worked in an adjacent area which also uses those skill or having participated in open source projects.
However going through the whole paid for formal education process to get a Diploma and then not actually being able to work in that area because there are far fewer jobs that graduates can indeed often be considered a con - it really depends on how useful all that preparation in a formal education setting ends up being for your actual job.
I apologize for not responding to this sooner - you took the time to write that out and I had obligations which didn’t leave me much time to read through it.
First off- I agree completely that it depends significantly on the field- this was my reason for not stating all educational paths are irrelevant. With a nod to your mention of pruning - it doesn’t appear to be solving much considering how bad the entry level job market is for a lot of graduates. I have been fortunate in my career and know people from both camps. Both sides will freely admit the grass looks greener on the other side (which I would take as an acknowledgement of similarity.)
My issue is and remains with the for-profit education system we have now. We have basically sold these young minds on “you need to go to college or you will struggle and fail as an adult.” It doesn’t matter what field you take college is the only path. We then have a surplus of graduates flooding a market that simply cannot absorb that many new bodies. Aforementioned graduates have debt and a need to find work to pay that debt down … and they are desperate. Perfect. Here’s your underpaid entry level position with 0 job security - work harder than you should to maybe have a chance of not being laid off come earnings season.
Capitalism does not belong in higher education - and when that higher education wants to stand on some ivory tower and hold a students livelihood hostage? Fuck them. They may offer structured education but they do not gate keep learning. I digress.
Generally speaking I think your views more or less fall into the “technically yes, but it’s complicated” category… which I have 0 issues with. Education is complicated. Especially now- and I think a lot of the discussions that draw focus to it and its issues are valuable. Cheers.
Oh, yeah, I agree with you that at a systemic level, for-profit education isn’t serving the best interests of people in general or even of a country.
And it’s simply due to how any private company works: their objective is to maximize shareholder (or stakeholder, for companies which don’t have shares) returns, nothing else - they might provide the “customer” with something positive if that’s what it takes to generate said returns, but what you see very often in complex enough situations or those where the final outcomes for the “customer” take a long time to materialize is the companies selling something that ultimatelly doesn’t provide the promised benefit to the customer.
The For-profit motivation has no place in things which are strategical for a country’s future and its people, and that includes Education IMHO.
Personally I’m fortunate to have been born in a country where higher education is mainly a Public service (there are a few Private Universities nowadays, but they’re not considered the best ones) and selection for entrance is reasonably meritocratic (based entirelly on grades and domain specific entrance tests, though people who went to better highschools in nicer neighbourhoods or whose parents were themselves highly educated, provided them a good environment and taught them good practices like reading, still have some advantage).