You have completely and utterly misused the term nationalized and nationalist here and are applying a meaning that they do not have. Nationalists don’t nationalize resources and Industry. You can say it as much as you want but it’s just complete fiction what you’re talking about. The historic link between nationalism and capitalism is so incredibly ingrained and strong that you saying otherwise is simply put unbelievable. This is simply nonsense and drivel that you have created from nothing.
I’m honestly not sure if this is the most intellectually dishonest comment I’ve ever seen or if you’re having some kind of fever dream where the meaning of words are different to you and you’re going to wake up in 2 days and be like oh shit what did I say?
Lol! No Clyde - I haven’t. Nationalism is a very simple thing - it’s not my fault you associate nationalism with fascism (which is always just false nationalism) or capitalism (which is perfectly incompatible with the beliefs of anyone who actually fetishizes a given nation state - even fascists like Francisco Franco understood that). The US has spent more resources combating nationalism in the middle-east than socialism - do you think they did that because nationalism is so “compatible” with capitalism?
I hate to be the one to break it to you - but Fidel Castro was far more of a nationalist than Adolf Hitler was. In fact, the majority of the anti-imperialist campaigns waged against colonial power during the (so-called) “Cold War” was nationalist in nature - not socialist.
The historic link between nationalism and capitalism
There are those who will pretend that there are “historic links” between liberalism and democracy, too - even though they are violently incompatible concepts. “Historic links” doesn’t mean anything.
You can call the US “democratic” and the USSR “socialist” all you want - but that does not make any of it reality.
I think you might have a inaccurate definition of nationalism.
Sorry - I don’t see it. It’s very easy for fascists to wear the trappings of nationalism - fascists will wear whatever gets them into power - but of all the things Fascist Italy, Showa Japan and Nazi Germany had in common a concern with the welfare of the people living inside the nation state wasn’t one of them… you know - the only point nationalism ever had? There’s a reason we separate the concept of ethno-nationalism from that of just plain ole’ nationalism.
Nationalism is concerned with the welfare of the actually existing nation state - not the alt-fantasy empires fetishized by fascists. In fact, the three fascist examples above was far, far more imperialist than they were nationalist, and you’d be hard-pressed to get any political philosopher to argue that nationalism inherently demands genocidal imperialist expansion.
Nationalism is inherently concerned with expanding the State through the ostensible ‘reunification’ of ethnic groups, or more overtly at the expense of other nations. Like, yknow, Lebensraum
This idea that Imperialism and Nationalism are conflicting ideologies is just… so dumb
Hey, don’t tell me… tell every African nationalist in history that they are doing nationalism wrong because you, an armchair genius, only ascribes to the meaning of the term nationalism as it was presented to you by white liberal western media. Go tell every nation-state in the (so-called) “3rd world” that the nationalists that helped free them from your country’s imperialist yoke cannot possibly be nationalists because you, still an armchair genius, have decided that they aren’t based on internet “definitions” written by people just like you.
Go on. I’ll wait here.
This idea that Imperialism and Nationalism are conflicting ideologies is just… so dumb
Again… don’t tell me - tell it to all the nation states that aren’t fundamentally imperialist, since, according to you (still just an armchair genius) nationalism cannot exist without imperialism.
So you’ve called me an ‘armchair genius’ twice in that comment - I’m sorry that I didn’t fight in WWI, but I am allowed to discuss the definition of Nationalism. You have no idea about my life or my background (or my chair), so leave that out.
Sure, Post-Colonial Nationalism as a movement played an integral role in establishing independence from European powers. That doesn’t change the fact that Nationalism is a European paradigm that contributed to the exploitation of these places in the first place.
The fact that Nationalism opposes foreign influence over ones own country - and therefore is an effective ideology of opposition in regions affected by European exploitation - says nothing about Nationalism’s inherent militarism and codification of heirarichal power.
So yes look at Nationalism as a factor in establishing independence, but then look at where Nationalism leads after that.
Lets take Nigeria in the 1960s. Nigerian nationalism helped oust the British, cool, that’s great. Then the Nationalist government inflamed ethnic tensions until Ahmadu Bello was assassinated in a miltary coup, and the following ethnic violence led to Civil War.
While you wait there for me to talk to “every nation state in the (so called) “3rd World””, maybe do some reading that isn’t an internet definition written by people Just like me (whatever that means…)
You have completely and utterly misused the term nationalized and nationalist here and are applying a meaning that they do not have. Nationalists don’t nationalize resources and Industry. You can say it as much as you want but it’s just complete fiction what you’re talking about. The historic link between nationalism and capitalism is so incredibly ingrained and strong that you saying otherwise is simply put unbelievable. This is simply nonsense and drivel that you have created from nothing.
I’m honestly not sure if this is the most intellectually dishonest comment I’ve ever seen or if you’re having some kind of fever dream where the meaning of words are different to you and you’re going to wake up in 2 days and be like oh shit what did I say?
Lol! No Clyde - I haven’t. Nationalism is a very simple thing - it’s not my fault you associate nationalism with fascism (which is always just false nationalism) or capitalism (which is perfectly incompatible with the beliefs of anyone who actually fetishizes a given nation state - even fascists like Francisco Franco understood that). The US has spent more resources combating nationalism in the middle-east than socialism - do you think they did that because nationalism is so “compatible” with capitalism?
I hate to be the one to break it to you - but Fidel Castro was far more of a nationalist than Adolf Hitler was. In fact, the majority of the anti-imperialist campaigns waged against colonial power during the (so-called) “Cold War” was nationalist in nature - not socialist.
There are those who will pretend that there are “historic links” between liberalism and democracy, too - even though they are violently incompatible concepts. “Historic links” doesn’t mean anything.
You can call the US “democratic” and the USSR “socialist” all you want - but that does not make any of it reality.
Fidel Castro and Adolf Hitler were both nationalists, Hitler was also fascist. I think you might have a inaccurate definition of nationalism.
Sorry - I don’t see it. It’s very easy for fascists to wear the trappings of nationalism - fascists will wear whatever gets them into power - but of all the things Fascist Italy, Showa Japan and Nazi Germany had in common a concern with the welfare of the people living inside the nation state wasn’t one of them… you know - the only point nationalism ever had? There’s a reason we separate the concept of ethno-nationalism from that of just plain ole’ nationalism.
Nationalism is concerned with the welfare of the actually existing nation state - not the alt-fantasy empires fetishized by fascists. In fact, the three fascist examples above was far, far more imperialist than they were nationalist, and you’d be hard-pressed to get any political philosopher to argue that nationalism inherently demands genocidal imperialist expansion.
Nationalism is inherently concerned with expanding the State through the ostensible ‘reunification’ of ethnic groups, or more overtly at the expense of other nations. Like, yknow, Lebensraum
This idea that Imperialism and Nationalism are conflicting ideologies is just… so dumb
Hey, don’t tell me… tell every African nationalist in history that they are doing nationalism wrong because you, an armchair genius, only ascribes to the meaning of the term nationalism as it was presented to you by white liberal western media. Go tell every nation-state in the (so-called) “3rd world” that the nationalists that helped free them from your country’s imperialist yoke cannot possibly be nationalists because you, still an armchair genius, have decided that they aren’t based on internet “definitions” written by people just like you.
Go on. I’ll wait here.
Again… don’t tell me - tell it to all the nation states that aren’t fundamentally imperialist, since, according to you (still just an armchair genius) nationalism cannot exist without imperialism.
Don’t worry… I’m still waiting right here.
So you’ve called me an ‘armchair genius’ twice in that comment - I’m sorry that I didn’t fight in WWI, but I am allowed to discuss the definition of Nationalism. You have no idea about my life or my background (or my chair), so leave that out.
Sure, Post-Colonial Nationalism as a movement played an integral role in establishing independence from European powers. That doesn’t change the fact that Nationalism is a European paradigm that contributed to the exploitation of these places in the first place.
The fact that Nationalism opposes foreign influence over ones own country - and therefore is an effective ideology of opposition in regions affected by European exploitation - says nothing about Nationalism’s inherent militarism and codification of heirarichal power.
So yes look at Nationalism as a factor in establishing independence, but then look at where Nationalism leads after that.
Lets take Nigeria in the 1960s. Nigerian nationalism helped oust the British, cool, that’s great. Then the Nationalist government inflamed ethnic tensions until Ahmadu Bello was assassinated in a miltary coup, and the following ethnic violence led to Civil War.
While you wait there for me to talk to “every nation state in the (so called) “3rd World””, maybe do some reading that isn’t an internet definition written by people Just like me (whatever that means…)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/45341491
And if you come back to me, do it with argument and not random personal attacks next time, thanks