I am quite disappointed. Given the title, I was like, wow, a generalist PC gaming website recommending people to switch to Linux! Read the article, Linux is not mentioned at all, I don’t even know why it is in the title. Getting a few clicks from hippies?
Totally uncool man.
Like radically insidious man.
Not cowabunga at all.
Totally unbodacious
Totally not Not-Heinous
These all sound like 80s comments, not hippies.
Don’t be such a drag man. Enlightenment comes from acceptance.
I don’t think it’s making a serious suggestion. It’s using “learn Linux” as an ironic punchline, like “just move to Canada”. It’s a kind of backhand.
This guy has seemingly never written about Linux before. No other articles mention it that I can find, except one where he talks about Linux overtaking Apple in gaming, where he talks mostly about Apple.
Yeah, using it ironically makes sense, stinky ignorance!
Great perspective!
Thanks for this unqualified headline.
For anyone who still needs Windows, I recommend you try the Windows 10 LTSC IoT variant.
It has support until 2032 and has all the bloatware ripped out. It’s extremely good.
They even have a Windows 11 version. That’s also really good. But I’m guessing if you’ve avoided upgrading to Windows 11, you’d prefer to stay on 10 anyway.
Is there an easy way to buy this as an individual?
Lmao
Windows doesn’t sell enterprise shit to normal people
This is why you gotta totally avoid sites like this one https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
Microsoft is watching for you, don’t worry
They typically don’t sell licenses to individuals and even if you were able to buy one for a reseller, it would be like $500.
There are other ways of activating it, but they are a gray area, and I’d only be willing to describe them to you through DM
This isn’t reddit, you don’t need to worry about being brigaded or cancelled for talking about piracy or J-Walking
More so just trying to give the mods less to clean up if they have to. Plus I think links to it are a faux pas
But will those methods even survive future updates?
The greater point is, the pattern is very clear with Microsoft and windows, and it will continue to get worse, and your options will continue to shrink. It would be better to just put any effort towards learning to use Linux and escaping the ecosystem rather than continually trying to find the ever-decreasing bits of freedom you can extract from Windows.
The activation mechanism I use on my personal PC has been active for six years without issue, so I can only assume so. And yeah, migrating to Linux works for some people, sure. But there’s no harm in letting new people know there’s options.
Essentially, no. If you don’t care about the cost, maybe with a MSDN subscription.
Pirate a copy of windows 11 N. It’s the eu version that doesn’t have any of this dogshit in it.
Is there a “government” version or similar, where security is paramount? Like, how does MS sell windows 11 to the navy or whatever…?
Probably, but the activation of it would be stringent.
The issue with any Windows OS going forward, no matter what version, is that Microsoft detests local desktop computing now, and so much of it is being ejected to the cloud. That includes all the various methods of managing it for enterprise customers. They’re slowly working towards the Apple model where the OS basically can’t live in isolation. If it touches the internet, it will phone home and kill itself if told to.
Are we talking about Windows or me at this point?
Apparently, the navy is still using Windows XP on (some?) ships: https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/2/5/navy-looks-to-industry-to-digitize-ships
Then there’s this old classic when a navy “smart” ship was adrift for 2 hours after a Windows NT crash: https://www.wired.com/1998/07/sunk-by-windows-nt/
For locked-down devices, they’ll be running LTSC or LTSB editions (Long-Term Support Channel/Branch), or Windows Embedded, which are simplified and heavily customisable versions of Windows. For general-purpose devices, they’ll be using Pro or Enterprise versions of Windows which, crucially, support Group Policy. Using GP it is very, very easy for a single admin to configure an arbitrarily large number of Windows machines to work exactly how they want them to work, including configuration options that aren’t otherwise exposed to the end user in any way.
Edit: just to add: the lack of an equivalent of Group Policy is what is preventing Linux becoming widespread in businesses. If you think you know of a service for Linux that works like Group Policy, then you don’t know Group Policy.
I got out just before 11 released and had only been on 10 for a year or so. Military moves very slowly at rolling out the latest windows. I’d be extremely surprised if anyone who isn’t a very high rank running 11.
As a Linux user this and posts like this piss me off. Linux is NOT and WILL NEVER be a replacement for any other operating system (except maybe Minix). By implying Linux is the same or similar enough to Windows you bring in Windows users who except everything to be the same. Fundamentally thats not a good thing for anyone, Windows users get confused and maintainers are encouraged not to deviate from Windows even in ways that make the OS better (for example KDE not going all in on tiling to appease Windows users). In my option Linux shouldn’t be recommended to anyone. Linux software maintainers should focus on the core Linux userbase and people who want their OS to look and function exactly like Windows/MacOS should just use Windows or MacOS.
I just did my install of Linux Mint. I have a number of complaints that are really the fault of Microsoft, other things tripping me up that are just about me learning differences; BUT I still find there’s some things Linux could take as lessons.
One of them is keyboard shortcuts. I learned Windows shortcuts because they followed intuitive logic, like what role the “Tab” key has and what the Shift key is doing to adjust its action. Linux apps often make up their own logic around this, which even if it made sense internally, doesn’t work with apps like Firefox which are still using Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs, possibly to keep Windows parity. Then, since Linux is supposed to be built to customize, if I try changing the terminal to switch tabs using Ctrl+Tab…it just doesn’t let you; pretends you didn’t press anything. Stock boot of Linux Mint 22.
You’re right that they shouldn’t be changing just for aping the dominating competitor; that’s how we unfortunately got Chromium supremacy. I still think there’s gentle UX considerations they could handle more often though. Basically the type of thing decided in board rooms that engineers would lose interest in.
Only thing better than perfect is standard as they say, if everything uses the same shortcuts it doesn’t matter if they’re crap
I’ve kept most of the same logic from windows keybinds on my hyprland config because then when I have to use a windows machine it’s not completely backwards
This is…kind of stupid? There’s such a plethora of options in the Linux space for desktop environments, workflow customizations, configurability, etc. nothing is locked down by taking a Windows-style approach to a DE. Instead it follows a tried philosophy that’s only really been hampered by Microsoft’s decision to funnel users into an frustrating hole that removes the choice to disable or modify features you don’t like. KDE in particular has always been a Windows-style DE, and it’s currently one of the best options for modern features and extensive customizability. Hyprland is literally designed for linux enthusiasts. Gnome is the Mac analog, Xfce is your light-weight but functional, etc.
You’re upset because people are looking for more options? That’s bizarre. I came from Windows, but I guarantee my setup is different than someone else who comes from Windows because that’s the flexibility that’s offered. No one coming from Windows wants it to be exactly like Windows, they just want to be able to use their computer in a way that allows them to work, to play games, to watch media, etc. It’s a computer. It’s your computer. It should be able to do what you want.
Thats absolutely untrue, I see people complain all the time “Linux doesn’t look exactly like Windows therefore its not polished” or “Linux doesnt support every Windows app therefore its not ready”. When Linux users keep saying “Linux is a Windows replacement” or even implying it by suggesting it as an alternative to Windows 11 it creates expectations that can never be met. In addition im frustrated not because Windows users demand more options but because they demand less options. They demand one distribution to be “the Linux OS”, one singular desktop, and one way of doing things. Fundamentally when Windows users come in expecting Windows they have a Windows mindset.
Ah, my bad. I think I misunderstood your point and took you to be gatekeeping rather than just attempting to defend against misinformation or poor comparisons.
You’re right, it’s not a Windows replacement. It shouldn’t be expected that it’s analogous to Windows. My previous statement was coming from the expectation that people moving from Windows to Linux as their primary OS of choice was that they were explicitly looking for the advantages offered by it, rather than simply expecting to get away from Microsoft while needing to adjust to nothing new.
Ideally new Linux users would accept that things are different and we are starting to see it. Tiling window managers are gaining popularity especially with the announcement of the first true tiling (or rather dynamic) desktop environment (Cosmic). I think it would also be helpful if Linux users explained why things are different, sometimes its a lack of support (HDR, VRR, VR, etc) but sometimes like with anticheat there are good reasons for the absence. In addition the problem is that a significant amount of people want a “non-microsoft windows”. The solution is simple, people should view Linux in a way like MacOS (some windows apps don’t run but it has plenty of exclusive apps that don’t run on Windows).
Well said. Then there is the entire ecosystem of programs and apps for which there is no real ability to install on Linux (and for which tools like Wine will either be buggy or even nonfunctional), and whose absence will just piss users off.
As much as I love Linux and BSD, it is really only for people who are either mentally geared to shift off of Windows or whose minimal needs won’t notice the difference; it is not a drop-in replacement for Windows.
For example, my octogenarian father has exactly such minimal needs except for one program: Quicken. Any bugs or issues running that as an installed desktop program on Linux would have him enraged and throwing the PC out the window. So he is still on Windows, and I am keeping my eyes open on how to properly neuter/excise Copilot once it drops.
To the Kwin maintainer, I can see why tiling isn’t a bigger deal. It’s not exactly about copying Windows; it’s more about not confusing most users. We already see tiling features, I’m sure they will figure out (1) more powerful features or (2) a way for other people to build off what they have. Let them cook.
I do agree that Linux will never be a Windows clone. There’s no purpose in copying decades worth of bad decisions. Windows isn’t great, it’s just always compatible with hardware.
How exactly is tiling confusing? If people were willing to accept that Linux functions differently then tiling can became just another thing to learn. Its objectivity more efficient then stacking so why not?
If the tiling is automatic and the users dont know how to change the size of the window manually (if that window manager allows that).
What if on the first boot the tiling could be explained by a welcome app (kinda like what KDE has), it would explain all of the shortcuts and then you could bring up all of the shortcuts with a simple shortcut. I personally use Sway and I think i3 based WMs are better, I believe on pretty much all i3 based WMs its as simple as super + r for resizing mode and esc to leave.
I have a lot of respect for Sway and wlroots developers. They contributed heavily to the desktop Linux ecosystem. However, if you need to explain that much at first boot; you may overload some users. I’m sure tiling in Plasma will get better as they splify configuration and figure out better defaults.
Until games fully support Linux or the other way around, I won’t be using Linux.
Also can’t really say that I care about Copilot that much. I don’t use it and it doesn’t bother me.
Edit: lol the people triggered by this will never not be entertaining.
It’s always the same “Games work fine on Linux… But…”. And it’s that “but” that’s usually a massive problem or nuisance to work with.
No thanks. I’ll stick to Windows for gaming just fine.
well it’s gonna use you soon.
Okay, well, I hope it takes me out for dinner first.
🎵🎶…Sweet dreams are made of this… 🎶🎵
Most games work on linux with proton nowdays. Only thing that doesnt really work is games with anticheat.
Yeah I switched to Linux about a month ago now and so far every game I’ve tried has worked flawlessly.
A whole month? You must’ve tried at least a dozen games
Pack em up boys, all games work in Linux
While it’s true I haven’t personally tried more than about a dozen of my games I will point out that 1) that covers a wide swath of genres, publishers, and game engines, and 2) I ran my entire library of several thousand games through protondb before hand to have some idea of what I was in for and out of all those thousands less than 10 reported as not functioning. Of the ones that wouldn’t work most actually can run, but the publishers are banning people who play under Linux. The most notable from that list would be Destiny 2 and GTA 5. So yes greater than 90% of all games run fine in Linux these days either straight out of the box or with simple configuration tweaks.
I’ve been Linux-only for something like 15 years, which is before Steam ever came to Linux. Over the past 5-ish years, my game selection has gone from “most games will work if I tinker” to “most games just work w/ no effort needed.”
I’ve completed well over a hundred games on Linux, many of those AAA, “Windows-only” games, and I’ve played over a hundred more. The last time I had to do any kind of tinkering was for a janky old game, but most newer titles just work.
If you don’t need games w/ anticheat, Steam on Linux works incredibly well.
I would say most anticheat works (although some games specifically choose to not allow Linux). It’s just kernel level anticheat that flat out doesn’t work (which is malware anyway)
although some games specifically choose to not allow Linux
Yup, that’s the kicker. Most games w/ anticheat could work on Linux, but devs refuse to do the minimal work to enable the Linux-compatibility (in many cases, it’s a checkbox and re-export the game). So the main thing that needs to happen is more Linux adoption. The more people that use Linux, the more pressure there will be on devs to check that box.
There’s even some options, like Heroic and Junk Store, that allow you to install some anti-cheat.
I recently switched (again… again again) I am on Linux (Nobara) for good now. All the games I play either work natively, through proton, or Lutris. The worst I have to do is use a different proton version or add in a launch option.
What games are you playing though? People seem to conveniently leave that part out lol
Rocket league, helldivers 2, space marine 2, space marine 1, 40k deathwing, tabletop simulator. Uhh loads of others as and when I play them but those are the main ones currently.
Thanks for the list bud it gives a better idea. Also are you using nvidia or amd?
Using AMD friend I have is using Nvidia also. He had an issue with permissions on one of his drives not working. But nothing GPU related.
Oh also Star Citizen which still runs like utter crap just like it did when I was on Windows. That one didn’t want to install through Lutris the first 2 times as well for whatever reason. I only “play” Star Citizen because my friend wants to.
The worst I have to do is use a different proton version or add in a launch option.
And therein lies the problem that keeps most people from switching to Linux. It’s a super simple thing to do, but Linux users fall into the same fallacy that experts in any field do: just how little the average person knows about the subject. The fact that something doesn’t just work when you try to open it would leave many people stumped. Especially with tech literacy rates declining thanks to kids growing up using mostly cell phones as their daily driver rather than an actual computer and the plug and play nature of Windows and Macs. Asking your average gamer to add command line arguments to a launcher would probably be like telling them they just have to hot wire their car if it doesn’t start when you turn the key.
To be fair, the number of times I’ve had to tinker has drastically reduced since the Steam Deck came out. I used to check protondb.com before installing a game, and now I don’t bother. Games tend to “just work,” and it’s getting better all the time.
I’ve been Linux-only since before Steam came to Linux, so I’ve seen the entire evolution from “try your luck w/ WINE” to “click play and it just works.”
Now is a great time to jump into Linux gaming, and if you stick to the Steam Deck Verified titles, you’ll probably never need to tinker. If you venture out to “Steam Deck Playable,” you’ll probably never need to tinker. Honestly, even a lot of the unsupported titles work just fine w/ no tinkering.
Fair point. But Linux has come a ridiculously long way from when I last tried to use it. If you know how to make an install USB for Linux and install it then I would argue you probably have the required knowledge to use Linux or at least give it a go.
So I’m still using Windows on my desktop, but from my experience with Proton on Steam Deck, Proton works pretty flawlessly essentially translating the windows exe. I’m assuming it’s the same for a Linux desktop setup but I’ll let others who actually have experience here comment further. The only thing that you may have issues with are competitive online games, but those aren’t really my jam but understandable if they are for you.
That’s the thing. I play a lot of online games, not specifically competitive games, but they frequently do use stuff like EAC. And the amount of times I’ve seen EAC issues paired with Linux posts pop up on various social platforms is ridiculous. It seems like a recurring thing that requires constant maintenance. Not to mention I use Windows for more than just games. Stuff like Adobe doesn’t even work on Linux and probably won’t be anytime soon either (and no I am not going to use alternative programs).
The effort and time it takes to get stuff working on Linux usually isn’t worth it, and then there’s hoping that everything stays working whenever something gets updated.
It’s quite ridiculous how a lot of people on this platform take it as a personal insult though. The article title is complete clickbait anyway.
No one is taking anything here as a personal insult outside of your own mind. More likely than not they simply think your effort doesn’t count for much as gaming on Linux is stellar out of the box.
Yeah, if you’re largely playing online games w/ anti-cheat, you’re going to have a rough time on Linux. But if you’re largely playing single-player games w/o anti-cheat, you’ll probably never need to tinker.
YMMV absolutely applies here. I personally play almost no online games (I just don’t have the time), so pretty much everything I play just works OOTB. I’ve finished well over a hundred games on Linux, and very few needed any form of tinkering, and I haven’t needed to adjust a launch parameter for the last couple years (last time I did was for a really old game, newer games generally just work).
It seems like a recurring thing that requires constant maintenance
Well, it’s not, simple as. EAC has a checkbox in its implementation dev-side to enable Linux support, if it doesn’t work it’s 110% on the devs to fix it. There are some workarounds for some games, but it’s honestly a binary yes or no most of the time, and it completely falls on the devs not doing something simple.
Stuff like Adobe doesn’t even work on Linux
Natively? No. Install WINE like a normal person and it absolutely does
The effort and time it takes to get stuff working on Linux usually isn’t worth it
Totally false ime, the example that comes straight to mind is that Bethesda games took an extra hour or so to mod on Linux (an issue that won’t be repeated now that I know), but the games work and run significantly less shitty and I was able to enjoy them even more. Or installing KDE plasma the other day to try it out, 5 minutes of troubleshooting for a much better desktop experience. It seems like you’re thinking about Linux from 5 or more years ago with this one tbh
and then there’s hoping that everything stays working whenever something gets updated.
Not really, but even if you are worried about that then just don’t update the thing you’re afraid will break? Unlike windows you actually get that option
It’s quite ridiculous how a lot of people on this platform take it as a personal insult though
People pointing out factually incorrect statements isn’t them being personally insulted, it’s usually annoyance that someone is just confidently blasting crap out of their mouths
Check your favorite games on this website that tells how well it runs on Steams on Linux, you may have surprises. https://www.protondb.com/
Honestly, you probably don’t even need to check them. If they’re Steam Deck Verified, they’ll probably just work. If they’re Steam Deck Playable, they’ll probably just work (most common issues are controls or small text, neither is an issue on desktop/laptop).
You honestly only need to check protondb if you have an issue, or maybe if you’re buying a game that’s “Unsupported” or something. 9/10 times, just clicking Play will work fine if it’s a single player game.
You mean deck verified shows on the Steam shop so you don’t have to check on protondb? I don’t use the deck so I didn’t follow this much.
Yes, Deck Verified on Steam means Valve has verified that it works on the Deck. If it works on the Deck, it’ll work on Linux, because the Deck runs Linux and it’s basically the same software stack.
Protondb is a community project where people submit reports about what works and what doesn’t. It’s a good resource, but only really needed if something isn’t working right out of the box.
Years ago I switched to Linux on my PC and everything was fine. But there was a game I wanted to play that didn’t work on Linux, so I created a small Windows partition to dual boot. Later, that game became two, then three, and so on. I had to reformat some partitions to ntfs (iirc I was using reiserfs) to expand available storage for Windows to add more games. Then at one point I realized it’s been a while since I’ve booted into Linux and I don’t even know if it still works.
So yeah, use whatever fits your needs. I’ll always pick Linux PC or Mac for work, but I’ll stick with Windows for gaming.
For context, I’ve been on computers since the 8bit era and I’ve been programming for just as long. I prefer the power of a terminal over GUIs, my “IDE” of choice is vim. I use Git Bash in Windows for access to Linux-style commands. So yeah, I am technical and I prefer Linux for practical reasons. But when I want to play a game I want to just start it and play it, not work for days to maaaybe get it to mostly run fine except for some features.
Edit: one of the games I had to use Windows for was League. A competitive online game with anti-cheat features.
Edit2: note that this was many years ago and some other games I needed Windows for will now probably work on Linux effortlessly. At least one has native support for Linux now.
That’s been pretty much a similar experience I used to have. Especially online games often suffer from poor Linux support because anti-cheat systems aren’t working, or not up-to-date, or something else entirely. It just felt like there was always something. I just want to boot up my PC and get going. Not boot it up and having to spend half the evening trying to figure out why a random driver/game/anti-cheat update destroyed everything that was working fine.
I’d be fine trying it again, but I know that a few games I play are still struggling with Linux issues, judging by the regular posts popping up on the related social media platforms.
I was similar, used Linux for work/programming but Windows for gaming. I refuse to update to Win 11 though, and with 10 going EOL I was faced with a problem. I’ve been using Steam Deck for about a year now with no problems so I figured I’d try going 100% Linux again. Ran my Library through protondb and nearly every single game was supported. I made the cutover about a month ago (just in time as well as literally a week before I made the switch copilot got stealth installed on my system).
So far I haven’t run into a single game that has failed or that I’ve even needed to change the options to get running. Now I don’t play LoL so I can’t speak to that specific game, and I have kept my Win 10 install if I do run into something that I can’t get running that I absolutely can’t live without, but so far I haven’t needed to boot into Windows since I made the switch. I think you might be surprised how few games won’t function in Linux these days.
I was using reiserfs
Wow, I haven’t heard that name in a while.
League
This used to work fine on Linux, but maybe that’s changed.
I play almost no competitive games, so it’s extremely rare for me to find something that doesn’t work on Linux. So YMMV, list the top games you play and check compatibility w/ Linux, hopefully you’ll be surprised at how far Linux has come. If not, it’s up to you to decide whether it’s worth using Windows 11 to play those games.
I’ve been using Linux exclusively for something like 15 years, and the selection of games went from “a handful of Linux titles + a handful more through WINE” to “most games just work through Steam when I push play.” That said, it’s not 100%, but I’m stubborn enough that I’d prefer to avoid a game rather than boot into Windows, and my Windows partition hasn’t been booted into for years (and the last time was to test some Windows-specific app for a friend).
Games that I play include Genshin Impact and Honkai Star Rail, both of which I just checked and don’t work on Linux due to anticheat protection. I see there are some alternative open-source launchers that would get them working on Linux and Mac, but I wouldn’t risk my account using those.
Yeah, freemium games are going to be an issue because they tend to rely on microtransactions, meaning they want to make sure people aren’t cheating to get that for free.
I avoid F2P games as a rule and generally ban my kids from playing it (they won’t play Fortnite in my house, though they can play at a friend’s I suppose), because I find them to be manipulative and huge wastes of time (i.e. grinding to avoid paying the MTX). That rule alone just happens to eliminate a ton of games that don’t work on Linux, without that actually being the goal.
But yeah, if you’re going to play F2P games or MP-centric games, Linux probably won’t be a good option for now. But if you mostly play SP games, Linux is absolutely fantastic.
I play these games in bursts. Play until exhausting the actual content, then stop when it turns into a grind-fest. Come back a year or two later when there’s enough new content to make it fun again. Usually also with a whole bunch of returning player rewards. Repeat.
A I never ever spend a single cent in these games.
Sure, and I was like that when i was younger too. I played a ton of F2P games because I honestly couldn’t afford the paid games. That said, the whole F2P game market is designed to encourage MTX, so the fun tends to be more diluted unless you pay.
That’s why I have a zero tolerance for it. Yeah, there might be fun games in the mix, but I’d much rather buy my kids a few games that I know will be fun and engaging than try to find the diamonds in the rough. I told them I’ll buy them pretty much any game they want in order to play w/ friends (they need to buy SP games w/ their allowance), but F2P is off the table.
Well, I haven’t played these types of games when I was young. But I have no intention of spending money on microtransactions and the games I’ve chosen have been fun as a f2p player, so they work for me.
As for my kids, they’re still in elementary school and they’ve been raised mostly screen-free, so it’s not something I need to worry about just yet.
I agree with you on that last bit. Pretty fucking annoying to see people act like Linux is perfectly fine for games which give new people some hope only to be frustrated and quit when they realize it’s not as fine as people make it out to be
They don’t realize that its hurting the chances of people actually adopting linux when they say misleading shit
For now linux is worth dual booting. Use linux for everything else and windows for gaming
All you have to do is check this website to check support quality for your games https://www.protondb.com/, and then decide if you want to quit. I think you don’t realize how low effort it is now, not more effort that escaping from Microsoft’s waves of enshitification.
Its more low effort (relatively low effort) for people who are already accustomed to linux and the puzzle that is to properly set up for gaming.
The issue im referring to is how people downplay linux need for manual set up.
If you choose a gaming oriented distribution like Pop OS and your game is well supported according to protondb, then there’s no manual set up, it’s as much click and play as Windows.
Unfortunately that wasnt the case when i ran cs2. It ran worse than windows. Maybe if i had amd graphics it would have been a different story as i hear positive things with amd and Linux
AMD graphic has good open source drivers that are usually included by default, for Nvidia you usually have to opt-in their proprietary drivers, but gaming oriented distributions like Pop should suggest it on the installer.
Linux is perfectly fine for games
It is. Except very specific Anti-Cheat enabled games, it just is
Use linux for everything else and windows for gaming
Instructions unclear, only gaming on Linux with 0 actual issues and an overall better experience
Except for CoD, that i keep windows around for (zombies addict, it’s a problem)
If thats the case then why do i worse performance on linux compared to windows? The issues have nothing to do with anticheat. Just cause a game runs doesnt mean its ideal especially for people that dont have money to be upgrading their pc
Last month, for the first time, Windows 11 was a more popular OS than Windows 10 in the Steam Hardware Survey. Of course, this is an imprecise science as people have to opt in to having their machines measured but it’s a sign of wider adoption. Windows 8, on the other hand, never made it big enough to do the same in its lifespan. Windows 7 was a very popular OS and adoption even to Windows 10 was fairly slow initially, partially down to that skepticism.
You can’t cite the jump from 7 to 8 or 7 to 10 without also remarking on the fact users had far more.control over updates back then.
Yeah, Windows 11 adoption is up, because most people don’t have a choice, or they didn’t care enough to stop it happening automatically, and don’t know how to roll it back. That doesn’t translate to approval.
At a certain point, adoption rates just don’t matter anymore because increasingly the user doesn’t have a choice anymore.
Of course, this is an imprecise science as people have to opt in to having their machines measured but it’s a sign of wider adoption
They already account for that.
They don’t, that quote is talking about the steam survey, which allows steam to read what OS the user is using. The point OP is making is that the only reason W11 is more popular than W10 is because Microsoft is forcing the update
Right, and Valve accounts for people choosing to not take the survey. That’s just how polls are typically conducted.
You know valve isn’t Microsoft right? Those are two different companies with different agendas?
Steam asking for consent for a survey doesn’t make up for the lack of consent in updates pushed by an entirely different entity
Right, and I’m not talking about Microsoft here. That’s why I only quoted the part about Valve’s stats and pointed out that it’s not necessarily an issue that users can opt-out of that statistics collection.
deleted by creator
Stop intimidating folks who just a computer that does work for them with “learn” linux as if linux is a programming language. Many linux distros are super user friendly and work exactly like windows UI.
Beside, why do you think iPhones, as dumb and as bloated and as restricted and limited and overpriced they are, still are the most selling phones worldwide year after year? It’s because my 80 yr old mom knows how to use it.
Most people and professionals in the world just want a machine to do their work and are not intrested in learning progamming or command lines to do it. Nurses, doctors and surgeons, non-computer engineers, artists, business managers, …etc, are too busy and occupied to even change the defaut settings or uninstall anything that comes with windows not because they love it but becuse not intrested and don’t care. Add to those groups most, actually all, girls I’ve ever met in my life. They have different hobbies and learning OSes is not of them. It’s like a girl saying “Soon Sephora will discontinue their HilightBrushExfoilioter and everyone who wants to wash their face needs to learn Mac’s DeepBeauty routines”. while dudes are like we know soaps but wtf is an exfoilating routine. Literally, they don’t know what linux is, and it’s not going to sell to tell them to learn.
So tl;dr: I’m saying the thing that sells would be Pop OS or Mint, or anything that requires the least or none learning curve.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
It’s very convenient for everyone to be able to automate their work.
And it’s not particularly different from cooking something once in a while.
Not required at all to use Linux, of course.
Though for operating systems … People here for whatever reason downvote things they fear, but even OpenBSD is simple enough. It does require using shell, but as compared to any other desktop OS I touched that’s just really negligible and is usually a copy-paste from FAQ.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
And learning sewing is useful, but I dont need it to wear clothes.
It’s not comparable to sewing. That would be learning C++ and Qt.
It’s comparable to making a sandwich.
How is learning C++ and QT not programming?
Golly.
C++ and QT is programming comparable to hard things in life.
Shell scripting is programming comparable to usual things in life.
Capisce?
No, making a sandwich is more effort equivalent to sending an email, or maybe adding items to a shopping site cart and buying them. Both are fairly intuitive and don’t involve memorizing weird commands like “ls” and “cd” (“cd? But my computer doesn’t even have a CD drive!”).
OK, making borsch is a more fitting analogy. With it being edible and not yielding muffled “heresy” cries from people from Eastern Europe.
Also you should be more creative with your sandwiches probably.
No, most people don’t need to learn shell scripting to browse the internet, play games, or send emails. Especially if they have jobs that don’t involve a lot of computer work. And it’s unfair to expect them to learn that just so they can use their computer as they were before.
Neither do I, but I do need shell scripting to automate tasks. I’m not against there being some visual user-friendly environment for doing that. That would be the right way to go, not saying people don’t need shell scripting. Something like Scratch.
the problem is so many office workplaces use windows and google, so unless you want to bring your own computer and buy a wifi hotspot to take to work, you’re stuck on windows and google
My work all takes place in a Linux environment. Unfortunately, my workplace still mandates using Windows.
I don’t require any Windows software for work. My boss just insists that I must use a Windows laptop, then do all of my work either in WSL or a traditional VM setup.
It’s baffling.
Security.
They want everything to be managed by Windows because they’re managing Windows themselves from Azure or Intune or whatever.
Corporate IT around the country is basically being instructed that the best and only viable security policies are the ones Microsoft writes, which also just so happen to involve all of their products exclusively. Insurance companies are starting to demand compliance with Microsoft’s security recommendations. It’s going to keep getting worse, and even though there should be heavy regulation on this monopoly, there won’t be.
And Google? I’m sure some companies use Google Apps for Business or whatevere they are calling it now, but the vast majority use Microsoft 365. Which does basically tie you to Windows, annoyingly. Especially if they are following industry and Microsoft best practices with MDM and Conditional Access.
lol we use google suite for email, calendars etc. but MS for SSO. our sister institutions mostly use MS 365, teams etc, so we also have to have all the MS crap in addition to the google crap
I’m a government contractor, so I’m stuck on Windows and Microsoft products for work. It really sucks, but the government ain’t switching to Linux anytime soon… if ever. At least Windows 11 Enterprise (or Government, whatever) should have a lot of this shit stripped out. I hope.
Usually at that scale you create images with all this crap removed. When deployment time comes, the machines are reimaged from local/state IT.
I feel bad for the average home user that, at this point views more ads than content, and all this telemetry collection to boot.
I use 11 and don’t see any ads and have telemetry turned off. I’m not sure where this is coming from, but I keep hearing it, and it doesn’t mesh with my experience.
I’ve personally thought about going back to Linux, and I still might next time I upgrade my MOBO, but the thought of all the effort it will take to get all of my hardware working again is exhausting. That was the greatest struggle before I even approached software issues. I’ve heard it is better these days, but I’m not an expert or a programmer, so I’m essentially relying that someone else has had my use case, solved it, and made it publicly available which is not always the case.
If it’s any consolation, and maybe just luck, but I almost have better luck with hardware not with windows.
That could very well be the case. I was on a beater laptop previously that was no longer functioning with windows and I needed something for school. I remember I that I wasn’t able to get the wifi card to work with Linux so I ended up getting an external card. It likely is different now and I have a proper desktop, but the experience was rough and I’m not eager to repeat it, lol.
Oh I remember those days. Having to find an extracted windows driver and using ndiswrapper to patch it in.
That, and I’m just proficient enough with computers to fuck shit up.
I made my move just recently. It was rocky, I ran into some issues and some of them were my fault.
I’m willing to put up with it currently not because Linux has gotten markedly better, but Windows has decided (yes, decided) to become significantly worse. Microsoft could have done nothing and I would have stayed a loyal, koolaid-drinking consumer of theirs.
I’m just starting out with Bazzite right now. Still awkward, but pretty painless, and all the gaming stuff like proton is already configured and baked in. I still need to figure out how to get stuff done though.
Serious question : My desktop is incompatible with Win11, I run Win10, and I use it for web browsing, Excel, and a little Word processing. Nothing else. Can’t i just continue on as is? Not a gamer, not a heavy user…
The problem with that is that vulnerability will be found and used. Since it’s connected to the internet it will be exposed to attackers and could be infected with botnet viruses/tools and used to attack other computer/services.
Use Mint and it will be less frustrating.
How well does Excel run under Linux?
I switched to LibreOffice Calc. I program my sheets and don’t need all the bells and whistles of Excel.
If you’re using excel anyway, you’re probably not super worried about using non open source software. In which case, I find Google sheets to perfect. I use it for almost everything, because it’s just easier to use Google’s office suite for my school than it would be to use libre office, since everything backs up immediately across devices. I’ve never had any complaints about compatibility or format, and I’m literally being graded on my shit. I’d be preferable to use only open source software, from like a philosophical standpoint, but I also need things to function well in a world that expects automatic saving across devices and flawless compatibility to the arbitrary standard of Microsoft office
I’m using sheets provided by my GOOG work account already. Was just asking in case someone absolutely needs to have the thick client of Excel.
I think even web-Excel works well enough. I’ve used it recently through a sub provided by my university on my Mint laptop via Firefox.
Look into Rufus, it will help you create a bootable USB with windows 11 and you can use it to do a upgrade or clean install from your windows 10 installation (clean install preferred IMO), it will even help bypass the hardware requirements and you can even remove the email account and use a local account. Make sure to use or write down your windows 10 activation/license for a clean install.
That being said you could potentially still run the old wondows OS, but as time goes on new exploits could be found that can compromise the OS. If its behind a firewall such as your router its safer, but there is still the possibility of it being infected way off into the future.
Here is a video of windows XP running on a PC connected directly to the internet with no firewall. Its infected almost instantaneously. (Dont try this at home).
Dual-boot Linux Mint, and install Microsoft fonts from the package manager to make documents more cross compatible. Should be a fairly easy migration for your use case. It took me about a year of dual booting to completely switch over to Mint, but it was worthwhile.
You’re not getting anymore security patches, but as long as you keep your browser up to date and generally be careful about what you download and run (as you should already be doing) you’ll likely be just fine.
I’d estimate sometime around 2029 or so the major browsers as well as security software will start dropping support for Windows 10 and at that point you may need to start thinking about moving to something else if you haven’t already done so.
I can probably see a new computer by then… (my car hits 20 next year…) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Real talk.
I have been around long enough to know that this conversation has happened ever since Windows 7.
And each time and every time an OS EOL I spend time investigating a couple of Linux distros to try that switch.
This time is no different. From Redhat to Debian to Ubuntu to popOS to Mint. Each one is significantly better than the last.
But even 2024, I’m having to spend time inside the terminal to make the OS act more like Windows.
Tailscale has no native app. Gotta install it in the terminal. I want to use my touch screen in the browser to swipe the back button. Nope, I spent 2 hours on forums and ChatGPT and had to install something in the terminal. I was not successful. My Nvidia video card is not working properly. I gave up after.
Why am I spending hours trying to make my experience like Windows when Windows is right there. Sure sure, privacy and advertising yada yada. Install Adguard and disable services that you don’t agree with.
I deal with this issue every few years grappling with a new linux install. And then gaslighted into thinking it’s a non-issue when asking for help. “No big deal, just copy these long lines into the terminal to install this thing that would take a single click on Windows”. Like being obstinant is a virtue
So you’re saying you don’t spend hours on a new Windows install?
Or that things that take a moment on Linux may take half an hour on Windows, but God forbid it happens the other way around, unacceptable?
I mean, things that take a single click on Windows are apparently not all you do to make Windows usable, otherwise installing it and setting it up would take less time, right?
I’m having trouble seeing your point, would you kindly restate?
The point frankly was that I don’t see your point.
Unix-like systems have Unix shell as the most basic and universal interface.
If your point was that it’s a downside that it even exists, then you are basically saying that something you can’t use should be taken away from those who can. Not many allies.
I didn’t say it should be taken away, did I?
My first computer was all terminal, all the time. It was called the Commodore 64. After that, MS-DOS on an IBM PC (& compatible). I can do the typity-type. But most new adopters of tech aren’t using terminals or command lines… they’re using touch screens and voice commands.
Microsoft and Apple adapted, making their graphical user interfaces more robust, user-friendly, and compatible with modern workflows… and in turn, those workflows evolved syncretically. The terminal, or command-line, is still accessible, but it’s no longer the primary method for installing or accessing programs.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use. I’m a massive nerd myself, but I can see how a lot of new users, who are used to being able to use their computer with just a mouse, would feel excluded and unable to invest the time to learn to adapt.
There’s no need for bad faith replies; there is nothing attacking nor scathing in my words.
Is my viewpoint unreasonable?
That’s not what I meant, I just took a leap from complaining about the usual advice in the Web involving CLI to the only way to prevent it - as in having some particular GUI as universal, if not more, as CLI, for advice involving it to work.
I mean, for example, in OpenBSD there are no distributions and X server is part of the base system, so they in theory could make a GUI configurator, but OpenBSD configuration is already much simpler than usual Linux, yes, with editing config files. It’s simpler than OpenWRT subjectively. That configurator likely wouldn’t be in demand.
In FreeBSD they still could have some GUI configurator maybe not completely official, due to there being no X11 in the base system, but still functional. Maybe that even exists.
But with Linux various distributions exist.
If you are talking about user-friendly GUIs fit to do various stuff in a particular distribution, OpenSUSE’s one is better than those proprietary things you mentioned. I think Mageia and Calculate Linux too had nice GUI configurations, and maybe OpenMandriva. Obviously Fedora has one, as the go-to “user-friendly” distribution, being from Red Hat and all.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use.
So you have tried all in the list above and have this impression?
I hate GUI configurators due to my own personal issues with modern UI\UX. They make me anxious. But OpenSUSE’s one in particular even for me felt as good as it gets.
I have never spent hours on a Windows install. Full stop.
This is my routine. Install windows, sign in. Install tailscale. Change my trackpad settings. Done.
My Adguard takes care of the rest.
So you are an Edge user then, without any non-MS desktop software, I take it?
A lot of time we spend installing Unix-like systems is, well, picking unnecessary stuff, like themes, fonts, moving widgets on a taskbar, moving profiles for various software, like Firefox, qBittorrent, aMule … , setting up audio players.
If I could do that on Windows to any satisfactory result, I would.
If I don’t count that, installing the OS itself usually takes me like 15 minutes maybe. Not counting the time to write the image, or the time to free a partition, or something like that.
Yes, I use edge.
On Linux, you would get random things you have to fix. Oh, weird, the back button on my mouse doesn’t work in Firefox. Hm… Interesting, my Nvidia video card isn’t working correctly. Ummm, my laptop doesn’t go to sleep when I close it, but overheats it instead. Random shit like this.
No, I wouldn’t and I don’t.
Good thing you’re not me.
Because posts like these are fundamentally misleading, Linux isnt a Windows replacement nor is it meant to be (it also wouldn’t make sense since Linux is older then Windows, at least the NT kernel). Honesty if you’re trying to make Linux as similar to Windows as possible just use Windows.
If you still have time & energy to troubleshoot you can create posts for your issues. ChatGPT may give incorrect advice.
I switched because my OS drive was HDD and Win10 was slow & unstable. The background tasks of Win put heavy load on the PC because I didn’t have an SSD. Linux was also slow but a bit more bearable, plus it was stable. Did an SSD upgrade years later.
You can achieve the same thing by installing Tiny11.
Literally everyone that “threatens” to “switch to linux”:
When did PC Gamer start hijacking the back button to show more ads? Infuriating.
I just open things in new tabs with the mouse wheel click, then press ctrl-w to close the tab.
I don’t play their games
Yep good call. I’m usually on my phone where tapping the link and swiping to go back is the natural behavior. I can scroll up and close the browser instead but habits are hard to break.
You can also mouse wheel click to close the tab.
Yeah but I’m already on the keyboard at that point. Easier for me to ctrl w to close the current tab then it is to move my hand and move the cursor to the tab then middle mouse again.
Very recently have I started in the habit of ctrl tab and ctrl shift tab to change tabs instead of even clicking them.
I’d love to throw the mouse in the garbage for day to day tasks tbh.
Yup, same, my workflow is very keyboard centric. But sometimes I’m just reading a bunch of stuff and scrolling (scrolling on anything other than my ThinkPad w/ trackpoint sucks IMO), so I already have my mouse in hand.
It’s good to have options. I figured someone may be unaware that you can middle-click to close tabs.
