z3rOR0ne

Good advice, and I appreciate the sentiment. Weighing the pros and cons is hard on that one. Requires a lot of faith to keep going through a civil war, a warming planet, and a potential WW3, but hey, if you’ve got faith for days, I admire that.

Agreed. Though personally I won’t need much to prepare for doomsday. One gun. One bullet. KISS.

Technically that means no human can be vegan because they’re mammals. No mammals are vegan by that definition.

Good luck to you on the job search. I have hope that your hard work will pay off.

Thanks. Yeah, it definitely seems bleak. I just keep making things though while trying to basically get a CS degree without the actual piece of paper. Lots of resources online and I have family and friends in the industry, so that helps keep me motivated.

Thank you for the words of encouragement.

Good article. Makes me sad though as I’m a self taught web dev starting out. Just gonna keep going though. Nothing much else to do tbh.

Whoa, lots of whataboutisms going on here. I don’t think you’re making these questions in good faith, but hey, I’m always willing to field questions from z’haters.

If someone spends money on leisure in the states for example, are they supporting racism, transphobia etc due to their moneys going to states like Florida, Texas etc?

No, only if they knowingly support the businesses of those who are racists, transphobes, and other hate groups. Yeah, their tax money goes towards very hateful politicians, but as long as their beliefs don’t align with them, then they’re just people trying to survive in a state run by shitty politicians.

What about people that buy video games even though companies are known to work their employees into depression and have harmful ethics regarding female employees with sexual harassment?

Yeah, don’t play those games, and let those companies know why! Video games and entertainment aren’t inherently necessary to your survival, and if you knowingly purchase, and engage in positive rhetoric around those games, you are endorsing the bad practices that made that game possible. I know game devs just need to make a living in a shitty industry, but that industry will remain shitty unless you hit those corporate asshats where it hurts, and the only place it hurts is their wallets. It sucks because the devs don’t deserve to be dragged down monetarily with the asshats up top, but that’s the way the capitalist cookie crumbles right now, and the only moral choice in my view is to not buy those games at all.

Are people that buy games endorsing that culture?

If they buy those games specifically, while also knowing about the disgusting business practices that were engaged in during it’s production? Yes.

How should those victims view fans that continue to make those companies money?

As ignorant participants in a flawed corporate infrastructure in which they are trapped in at best, and uncaring knowing participants at worst. If these employees speak out, they are left without a means of a living wage income due to horrific minimum wage laws and no social safety net. I’ve met people in the video game industry, gotten beers with them, talked with them, most of them didn’t know how toxic it was going to be when they got into it. But they invested so much time, energy, and usually also money in their education, that they have little recourse now to abandon their job for my “purity test”, as you put it. I am sympathetic towards their plight because their livelihood and lifestyle depends on it. The same cannot be said of those wanting to create a little HP fan club.

What about companies that outsource their manufacturing processes to China?

Ah yes, the big elephant in the room, right? You can’t get away from Chinese products, their everywhere! You can’t live cheaply without China’s horrible work practices, right? All the while they additionally suppress public forms of dissent, have a literal dictator for life as a “president”, have displaced the Dalai Llama, have imprisoned dissidents in Hong Kong, refused to acknowledge the statehood of Tibet and Taiwan, not to mention the horrific treatment of the Uyghur Muslims. So yeah, it’s a shitty situation and in the US, many goods are difficult to find that don’t come from China, and most cheap goods are produced in China. So what about that?

My take on it is if you can do without Chinese products, do it. If you don’t need it for work or school, then yeah, you get a pass from my “purity test”. If you can’t afford to buy a more expensive product that doesn’t come from China, and again, you really actually need it (and don’t simply want it), then buy it. Then go out and condemn the Chinese Communist Party regardless. Condemn them loudly and in public, on the internet and IRL, as often as the subject comes up. Bring up the topic from time to time if it bothers you, and it should.

Ultimately your bad faith arguments are basically saying “There’s a lot of bad in the world, and if you do any of the things I mentioned, your hands aren’t clean! You’re not holier than me, you’re just like the rest of us, so STFU!” But that’s the whole thing, I’m as disgusted with this shit as the rest of you, the only difference is I refuse to STFU about it and say nothing.

I’m not blind to the fact that some people are in bad situations they can’t get out of. Capitalism as a whole and the history of racism, homophobia, and transphobia that have plagued human history has put us all in a shit situation that we can only play our small role in, and survive in. But that doesn’t mean things can’t change. Slavery was once thought a necessary evil that propped up the American economy during the 19th century, the Feminist movement was ridiculed as promoting an “unnatural” restructuring of the existing social hierarchy, Racism was silently accepted by the majority until the Civil Rights movements upended the status quo, and Homosexuality only became more socially accepted after the Stonewall Riots occurred and people died for their right to personhood. Societal change has never been solved by a comfortable nice conversation or sticking your head in the sand. It has always happened because disenfranchised people stood the fuck up, said something, and did something, and very often this had to happen many many times over before society at large got the fucking message, heard their voices, and changed (we’re still addressing all these issues on some level or another right now, and our rhetoric around these subjects continues to change, overall for the better, thanks to these initial challenges to the status quo).).

Now, you could argue that joining an HP fan club can do the same from the inside, but, obviously, I disagree. Many of these aforementioned movements didn’t succeed because they ignored the bigotry around them (though trust me, many of them wanted to, they tried, and they failed). These movements only succeeded when they called out the hatred, bigotry, and INDIFFERENCE for what it was over and over and over again.

So…what about your next whataboutism?

Not a quote. You’re intentionally misinterpreting what I posted. I’ll just keave this here for you to read again because you obviously would rather engage in throwing hot garbage around than produce a valid counterpoint.

My original post again was:

Its not lost on trans activists that trans people themselves can engage in the same type of careless behavior that results in the support of bigotry.

If they enjoy HP, that’s fine, but to deny that positive discourse around the franchise supports JKR and subtly and overtly, as well as reinforces her bigotry, is naive.

There are plenty of people who are willing to do the easy thing even if it ends up being harmful to themselves and others. Trans people are no exception to this kind of behavior.

It’s not like I haven’t encountered abrasive trans people, but oftentimes their anger and resentment comes from a place that is completely understandable. They often have to put so much of their grievances aside to assuage the masses because otherwise they are immediately villified, even amongst those that are supposed to be their supporters.

I personally don’t have much respect for those that are willing to turn a blind eye to the harm others obviously do just to go support them directly or indirectly for the sake of enjoying a piece of somewhat entertaining content.

The discomfort of seeing trans people getting angry about this shouldn’t inherently mean whoever brought up the grievance in a vehement manner ia immediately in the wrong. Sure, maybe they were a jerk about expressing it, but it doesn’t mean they were wrong. And dancing around it trying to be nice about the ”seeing both sides of the story" disxourse has proven ineffective at changing the discourse, so yeah, people are emptional and human and get frustrated when they dont feel heard, so they shout.

They know it won’t help, but what other option have you left them then? You’ve proven with your words, silence, actions, and inactions, that ultimately you don’t stand with them. You stand with HP, and as uncomfortable a truth as it is that you all refuse to acknowledge, you stand with JKR.

I’m somehow failing to find your misquote within my original post. Could you please point out which line has this hot garbage?:

“those trans people don’t act the same way as me, so they’re obviously wrong.”

Cuz nowhere did I even indicate this. I don’t want them to think the same as me. I’m expressing my opinion that you obviously disagree with. But to misquote me is petty and pointless. Either present a valid counterpoint or take your ball and go home.

Its not lost on trans activists that trans people themselves can engage in the same type of careless behavior that results in the support of bigotry.

If they enjoy HP, that’s fine, but to deny that positive discourse around the franchise supports JKR and subtly and overtly, as well as reinforces her bigotry, is naive.

There are plenty of people who are willing to do the easy thing even if it ends up being harmful to themselves and others. Trans people are no exception to this kind of behavior.

It’s not like I haven’t encountered abrasive trans people, but oftentimes their anger and resentment comes from a place that is completely understandable. They often have to put so much of their grievances aside to assuage the masses because otherwise they are immediately villified, even amongst those that are supposed to be their supporters.

I personally don’t have much respect for those that are willing to turn a blind eye to the harm others obviously do just to go support them directly or indirectly for the sake of enjoying a piece of somewhat entertaining content.

The discomfort of seeing trans people getting angry about this shouldn’t inherently mean whoever brought up the grievance in a vehement manner ia immediately in the wrong. Sure, maybe they were a jerk about expressing it, but it doesn’t mean they were wrong. And dancing around it trying to be nice about the ”seeing both sides of the story" disxourse has proven ineffective at changing the discourse, so yeah, people are emptional and human and get frustrated when they dont feel heard, so they shout.

They know it won’t help, but what other option have you left them then? You’ve proven with your words, silence, actions, and inactions, that ultimately you don’t stand with them. You stand with HP, and as uncomfortable a truth as it is that you all refuse to acknowledge, you stand with JKR.

Interesting. The creator included the !bang feature. Nice. Gonna have to play with this more.

Lol. How so? Seems like a lot of people here singing the praises of the work while condemning the author have a pretty hard time squaring with themselves that maybe enjoying the work somehow makes trans people feel unseen, unheard?

Or maybe it’s just that you don’t actually care.

Because continuing to engage with her content is a form of endorsement of her viewpoints (As mentioned in my previous comment, it is not inherently monetary support).

By saying, ”I enjoy the content. I don’t support her views, but I’m not going to go out of my way to condemn her, and I’m going to continue to engage in positive discourse about her work.", you are indicating “I don’t stand against trans bigotry unless publicly pressured to do so. I value the entertainment of her work more than dislike the harm my turning a blind eye to the harm the author causes with her hate speech.” Most commonly followed by “I’m just going to pretend it’s okay because it makes me uncomfortable to think otherwise. I’m not a bad person, and refuse to even acknowledge that I might be wrong here.”

This simple line of thought that is understandably easy to fall into is often used amongst outright hate groups, transphobes in this case, to empathize with people within this community.

With that empathy built off of a mutual dislike for the trans people making them feel bad for just wanting to like their little HP fan club, they form a bond of an us vs them mentality, where the “us"becomes less and less about their love of the content, and more and more about their dislike of the " other.”

Part of this discourse I’m engaging in here isn’t in the hope that somehow I can dissuade anyone from joining this community. People gonna do what they’re gonna do. But pointing out the potential pitfalls of founding and perpetuating this community is meant to instill in those that join an awareness of exactly WHY trans people and their allies are so upset that people are willing to turn a deaf ear to their voices when they tell you to think more carefully on this, to reconsider your position.

then it would seem to me that they have enough self-awareness to take care of themselves and mitigate any of this nebulous harm.

They don’t though. Because to mitigate the harm would mean having a more difficult discussion on how JKR’s works and awkward stumblings around inclusivity in her works have been nothing but tokenism. A facade of inclusivity made in bad faith. But that’s not what this community would ever want to do, because to do so would be to point out exactly what I’ve been arguing this entire time, that to ignore the fact thst you are celebrating the works created by a bigot means you silently are endorsing her, even if you vocally condemn her.

People claim to care, and heck, words matter. But words only matter inasmuch as what those words do, or inspire people to do. JKR’s words obviously have inspired a lot of people in a lot of different ways. But what have they ulimately inspired people to do really?

At best, they inspired people to get together and engage in conversations about a fantasy world, maybe come up with amazing stories of their own. At worst, they inspired some people to go out and make some poor trans person want to kill themselves.

The question I pose is, does the good really outweigh the bad? I don’t think so.

I’d say when the material that makes up the HP franchise, itself, becomes distasteful. I’m not hugely invested into HP, but last I’ve seen of it, the franchise is LGBT-inclusive, directly in spite of Rowling. I see no reason why one shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy the story.

It’s not about ”allowing” people to enjoy the story. I’m only pointing out consequences both intended and not intended incurred by choices to engage with, and inherently validate, an author who has engaged in transphobic hateful rhetoric.

Engaging in communities that reinforce a positive viewpoint of a story written by a transphobic hateful person is harmful to those communities in ways that are both overt and subtle. If you are okay with that, then at least don’t deny it.

Yeah, Rowling may still profit from it.

I never mentioned boycotting her material because it somehow might starve her of profit. You are obfuscating the argument from the main point. This farcical argument is often brought up as if the harm that the trans community experiences from JKR’s rhetoric is directly related to JKR’s wallet. It’s not. It’s her hate speech and the complacency around that hate speech that is the issue.

Rowling’s a TERF shitbag, and I think most of the HP community is generally onboard with that notion, too.

Obviously I agree on Rowling being a TERF shitbag. And in all truth, I’m sure the majority of the HP community aren’t blatant transphobes. The problem is not in any obvious transphobia exhibited by the HP community, but rather what an HP community inherently must ignore in order to enjoy the material. To continue to find the HP franchise tasteful, you must ignore the hateful rhetoric of it’s author, and the repercussions of said rhetoric.

Again, if you’re okay with that, then I’d encourage you to admit that to at least yourself.

Judge the result, not your idea of what they’re trying to do.

Yeah. That wait and see approach hasn’t usually worked out for minorities…

You’re painting a monster no one else sees.

No. I’m pointing out that due to nostalgia and a desire for community, HP fans willing to turn a blind eye to the hateful rhetoric of JKR are engaging with transphobic communities, even if the community rules attempts to discourage outright hate speech. If you can’t see how that’s harmful, you’re blind.

I won’t answer your second post to me since it wasn’t targeted at you, and I’m lazy.

Fair enough, though I’m happy to engage in discourse on that point as well.

Let me pose a hypothetical to you then. If the transphobic rhetoric of JKR escalated, and transphobes took action, like just started doing even more harm to the trans community than they already have. At what point would you say “you know what, I’ve had enough of HP. It’s just distasteful to engage with this anymore”.

Let’s say a trans person enters, participates, and becomes a part of your HP fan community. What if they are directly, or even indirectly, harmed by JKR’s transphobic rhetoric? If you continue to engage with how great the content is, while ignoring what just happened, was that trans person, who was harmed, ever really part of your community? Or were you just paying lip service to your community’s inclusivity?

These hypotheticals can happen, it’s not even remotely outside the realm of possibility. At what point is engaging in HP fandom distasteful?

Sorry, but no. You can sit by the sidelines and cause harm. It’s been done many times over throughout history, and sadly I’m sure we’ll see it again. I’m literally witnessing a bunch of people ignore the plight of a marginalized group right here, right now.

I’m calling it out because it’s exactly that. It’s literally the least amount of effort I can put in while still doing what I think is right, not fucking nothing, and certainly not engaging in a community that is transphobe adjacent.

Again, company you keep reflects on you, ignoring a problem can be just as harmful as actively causing harm under certain circumstances.

Are these those specific circumstances? Maybe not. But I’ll be damned if I don’t call out indifference to suffering when I see it, which is exactly what this is.

I’m not speaking for all trans people. I’m speaking for me. It’s the internet, try and stop me. If any person, trans or otherwise, wants to engage with me and argue why I’m wrong and presents a solid argument, I’d be more than happy to hear it.

But so far, all I’m hearing is a bunch of pearl clutching rhetoric dancing around the fact that to support HP in any way shape or form can only help JKR, and by proxy, her transphobic agenda. If that’s what you all want to do, then go ahead. But don’t pretend that’s not what’s happening.

Yeah words matter. But thanks for clarifying it wasn’t your point.

Nobody’s gonna call you a Nazi for liking Wagner. But I will say you like Hitler’s favorite musician and if you start hanging out with other Wagner enthusiasts, you might very well find yourself in the company of Nazis. Sure they aren’t all Nazis, and I’m sure that if you were to find out some or most of them were , you’d rightly distance yourself from the group. Right?

My original argument isn’t about the quality of the works in question, it’s about whether it’s okay to ignore the hateful rhetoric of JKR and the harm she causes trans people with said rhetoric, solely in the interest of creating and engaging in community around her work.

It’s insensitive to a group already marginalized in societies at large because to form a community around HP inherently excludes them, not because trans people can’t see the value in HP or it’s literary quality, but because they can’t disassociate the work from the author. JKR is a TERF, has helped spearhead a TERF movement amongst her accolades, targeting trans people specifically with hate speech, all within recent memory.

Additionally, Wagner, while a controversial figure as Hitler’s favorite musician, was never explicitly anti-semitic. The same cannot be said of JK Rowling and her transphobic rhetoric. So the comparison isn’t quite as astute as you might believe it to be.

I’ve read Rowlings original HP books. They were decent. My current stance is as simple as no longer supporting her work nor supporting groups that continue to. I’m calling out you and anyone else that thinks they can some how support trans rights and still enjoy the HP universe. You’re trying to absolve yourself of somehow not being in the company of transphobic Harry Potter fans, when you clearly are. That doesn’t make you inherently transphobic, but it does indicate that you love HP more than you dislike JK’s transphobic rhetoric. Sure you can verbally condemn JK’s transphobic rhetoric, but if you continue to engage with her content after having knowledge of her bigotry, it indicates you’re willing to turn a blind eye to hate speech in the interest of nostalgia. Probably also out of loneliness and a desperation for community.

Nah. Didn’t call you or anyone else a transphobe. Did i? Make your case that you’re not simply wanting to enjoy HP while ignoring how hurtful JK’s rhetoric has been to the trans community. You’re turning a blind eye to the pain a minority community is enduring. That doesn’t make you a transphobe, that makes you indifferent to the harm that trans people have and will continue to endure because of JK’s transphobic bigotry.

The company you keep isn’t inherently transphobic, but it does show you don’t care about this particular issue, which puts you in the company of transphobes. Again, the company you keep reflects on your character. And I personally find that crowd distasteful, and I’m on the internet expressing it as such until the conversation ends.

I await another one of your witty retorts.