• nomad@infosec.pub
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    5 months ago

    Don’t ask your government for a living wage. Or your employer. An education that gives you leverage to negotiate a living wage tough… that’s totally a governments responsibility and in its range of possibility. Everything else is a social subsidy which is fine as long as you call it by its name which is disability pay and unemployment pay. Ask your government for that too.

    • olivebranch@lemmy.caOP
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      4 months ago

      Teachers are very educated and yet have very low wages. The problem is not that workers are not skilled enough, it is that system isn’t giving them their fair share. All the profit goes to the rich, while poor are getting poorer.

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
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      4 months ago

      Minimum wage is not the same thing as a living wage. The minimum wage should be a living wage, but it isn’t.

      See: NY. We just got our minimum wage increase and it’s 15-16/hr depending on where you are in NY… That’s what we were fighting for more than ten goddamn years ago. $15-$16/hr is an absolute joke on Long Island and NYC. I finally managed to claw my way up to 60k/year and as a single guy the thought of homeownership on long Island is as fantastical and far-fetched as a unicorn, forget about 15/hr… You can’t even rent most illegal apartments at that income alone.

      The conversation needs to be about what constitutes a living wage and how to calculate it at a given time for each area not just blanket minimum wage increases to specific numbers that sound nice to chant like “fight for fifteen.”

      • rambaroo@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Lol getting down voted out of pure tribalism. The complete unwillingness of their base to seriously criticize Democrats is such a massive fucking turn off to voting for them.

    • BingoBangoBongo@midwest.social
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      4 months ago

      They just repealed right to work in Michigan, and Meijer employees presumably used that leverage to significantly improve wages and benefits.

      • shyguyblue@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Right to work is another BS right wing policy that needs to die. I put in less than two weeks notice, I’m an asshole; company drops me in an instant, business as usual.

      • squiblet@kbin.social
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        4 months ago

        There’s an $18 minimum wage in Denver, for instance. Republicans sure as hell didn’t vote for that.

      • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        My home state of Oregon mandates a minimum wage of $13.20 in rural areas and $15.45 in the Portland metro area, and it adjusts to inflation. Oregon has been governed by Democrats for years. Thanks to these and other laws, I can go down to a McDonald’s and get a job that pays $16-17 an hour to start in my city. TriMet in Portland is always advertising a $28 starting wage for bus drivers (no CDL) up to $37 after three years. Rent in my city is $800-900 for a one-bedroom flat with excellent free public transit and fair bikeability. Fuel prices are reasonable. We have strong protections for tenants against abusive landlords. Strong anti-discrimination laws. Everyone has paid sick days. No regressive sales tax. Working-class people can afford a roof over their heads and decent food on the table.

        Check out the neighbouring state minimum wages.

        • Washington (Democratic government): $16.28
        • California (Democratic government): $16.00
        • Nevada (divided government): $12.00
        • Idaho (Republican government): $7.25

        But yeah, keep harping on about how both parties are the same and that Democrats don’t do more to help the working man.

        • pingveno@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          My home state of Oregon mandates a minimum wage of $13.20 in rural areas and $15.45 in the Portland metro area, and it adjusts to inflation.

          I was part of that! I was on a team that made a web site that visualized the effect on poverty levels on a county-by-county basis when the minimum wage was at different levels. It made the need for a split minimum wage obvious, since the minimum wage that is necessary for metro areas is inappropriate for rural areas. Rumor has it that the legislature used it in the decision making to some degree.

        • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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          4 months ago

          “Look at how well the democrats allow the capitalists to treat me as they ensure they can continue to exploit my labour for their own profit uninterrupted!!11”

          (seriously - start by looking at those companies profit margins for a tip of the iceberg idea of just how much they are making off of your labour before you do a happy dance over a couple of dollars more they’re willing to throw your way to keep you from demanding actual freedom)

          But yeah, keep harping on about how represented you are in the sham they call electoral politics…

          • Sprokes@jlai.lu
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            4 months ago

            I think OP is just saying that democrats are better than Republicans. We have multiple parties in my country but people vote for tree ones that support capitalism and rich people. We also have people that support a politician that was found guilty of fraud.

            Rich people have power so they can do what they want.

            • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              OK so one of the slavers is nicer than the other… You’re still owned by slavers. Holy fuck, Liberals are just as fucking dumb as conservatives.

              • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Arguments against electoral democracy by so-called socialists always boil down to “it’s not perfect so why bother”.

                Okay, so keep complaining. Your vision of a better tomorrow isn’t going to magically come true if you complain hard enough. You can help make it come true only by participating in the political system we have today. Even if you think it doesn’t work, you have no choice but to participate anyway and hope you are wrong.

                This is how I got banned from Hexbear. I told someone “You can either participate in the current system or plot to overthrow it. Are you working with the next Lenin or Mao, or merely fantasizing about it?”

                So what about you? What are you doing to build the future you want?

                • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  I’m not complaining to complain and I’m not saying don’t vote. What the flying fuck are all these assumptions coming from you?

                  What I’m saying is the two party system gives you a choice between two enemies. Yet you dumbasses CONSTANTLY pretend that Democrats good just because Republicans bad.

                  A vote doesn’t, and SHOULD NOT, come with an ass kissing.

                • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  Funny meme, doesn’t make me wrong. The comic itself agrees with me.

                  Funny how people deny the truth when it’s not stated as a joke. Almost like you all aren’t actually processing the message. Democrats are liberals. Democrats are still allowing Republicans to keep your wages down.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          That’s actually better than I thought. People in other states are so used to the dysfunction that they literally don’t believe these things are possible.

          • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Good news doesn’t spread as quickly as bad news and rage bait. “McDonald’s Workers Can Afford Flat on 1/3 of Income” isn’t a good headline but “Families Increasingly Priced Out By Red-Hot Housing Market” does.

          • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I think that’s why it’s important to encourage participation in the primary process. There are the neoliberals mixed in with the social democrats and actual socialists. We should be voting for and supporting the latter in the primaries if we want to influence the party in a leftward direction.

        • rambaroo@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          None of these are living wages. You don’t get a cookie for doing the bare minimum of keeping people out of effective slavery. Give me a fucking break.

          • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Your other comment says—

            So pathetic how you claim to support democracy but shit on anyone who criticizes your precious political party and then make juvenile excuses for doing so.

            I don’t. But it’s undeniably true that one party is much better, in my opinion, than the other. They aren’t a perfect party but to equate them with the Republican Party simply because they aren’t doing a perfect (or in many cases, even a good) job is stupid.

            Right now, the choices are “bare minimum” or “nothing at all”. These choices are not the same. One is clearly better.

            If you would like a more nuanced opinion then read carefully the rest of my comments in this thread. I’m not going to repeat my points for every person who comes along with the same retort and insult thinking they’ve “got” me.

          • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Yes, and that’s because the progressive and left-wing of the Democratic Party is losing a power struggle against the centrists and neoliberals. If you want to change that, be sure to vote in the party primary elections and to encourage everyone you know to do the same.

            Register to vote

          • explodicle@local106.com
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            4 months ago

            That’s waaaay more complicated than just minimum wage. $16 isn’t even a living wage here in L.A. where we’ve got lots of homelessness.

            We ought to employ Land Value Taxation to fund the basic necessities for survival, and the remainder should go towards a UBI.

            • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              For what it’s worth, the minimum wage in LA will rise to $17.28 in July of this year. I get that’s still not very high by LA standards, but I stress that progress is better than stagnation.

        • rambaroo@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Republicans aren’t stopping states like NY or CA from passing a living wage. Democrats are stopping that.

          So sick of the straw men and blatant gaslighting coming from the democratic party. Anything to excuse why corporations keep getting their way with Dems. Meanwhile it takes 10 fucking years to increase the minimum wage in a blue state.

          • Blooper@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            No, one of the two parties makes posts like this to make stupid people say “both sides” whilst said party passes laws to suppress black votes, discriminate against gay folk, and ban abortions.

            Quit trying to “both sides”. It’s what stupid people say.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      When all it takes to stop them is the nonbinding opinion of an unelected advisor, are they really trying, though?

    • shiroininja@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      The problem is, we need caps on profit margins on necessities, and to stop the making of things we need for basic survival investment opportunities.

      But that would be difficult to get done. So they go for the low hanging fruit of wages, which never permanently solve anything because they’ll just keep raising prices under this scamflation cycle we’ve been in since COVID.

    • rambaroo@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Minimum wage and living wage are two very different things. Most Democrats absolutely do not support a living wage, and don’t try to lie to us about how they do.

  • Bobmighty@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Oh look, more both sides trash slapped on top of someone else’s work. Lazy fucks can’t even propagandize properly.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      How about spending some of your time and energy telling moderates they can either compromise with leftists and progressives or lose to fascists a second time?

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
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      It’s not really propaganda when it’s true, at least not in the negative sense of “false manipulative information.” If it wasn’t true we’d already have it. Republicans don’t have complete control everywhere, and there are states where Democrats have complete control and they don’t do it because corporations have complete control over most Democrats.

      “We” have like a handful of actual progressives in the entirety of our government, state or otherwise.

  • xlash123@sh.itjust.works
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    4 months ago

    Criticism of the comic aside, two party system is still definitely undesirable. I believe it is a side effect of first past the post voting. What we really should implement is ranked choice voting. It gets rid of the dumb “voting third party is voting for [opposite party]” argument by letting you vote for who you want guilt-free and falling back on your lower-ranked votes if #1 wasn’t popular enough.

    But you know, this will always meet resistance because politicians would lose their jobs for implementing this.

  • CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de
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    4 months ago

    Minimum wage works. Here is an article from the german newspaper FAZ (leans economically right) that presents a study that shows the low income sector has shrunk since the implementation of minimum wages.
    Germany before had one of the biggest low income sectors in the western world.
    And no, the unemployment rate did not skyrocket. In fact, Germany is as close to full employment as it gets.

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Germany is as close to full employment as it gets.

      I wonder what they do in 21st century when everything is mechanized and automated like never before.

  • NutWrench@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    Yeah, subby. We get it. “Both sides are bad.” But one side is boring corporatists who don’t give a crap and the other side is 100% concentrated evil fascists, authoritarians and religious nutjobs. And while that’s a choice between the lesser of two evils, it’s not a difficult one.

    • sanguine_artichoke@midwest.social
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      4 months ago

      That’s the problem with this “both sides” take. Yes, there is no true leftist party in the US. They’re both corporatists. The Republicans are undeniably much worse, though. Anti-union, anti other labor rights, oppose every kind of social safety net, want to privatize (loot) and profit from public assets, are thoroughly in favor of racist classist policies of every type imaginable. Some democrats are too, but ALL republicans are like that.

    • explodicle@local106.com
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      4 months ago

      We do get it. It’s obvious. It’s so obvious that the only people still supporting FPTP are in favor of it; they don’t give a crap about selling us out to fascists.

      And the “not fascists” angle worked a lot better when they weren’t aiding a genocide.

      • III@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        aiding a genocide

        As opposed to the alternative who is in rabid support of multiple genocides…? You are SO smart and totally know what you are talking about.

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      That may have been the point of the original comic, but given the caption, I think OP’s point wasn’t that both sides are bad, but was that a two party system is inherently biased towards corporate capture.

    • uis@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Corporations pay evil fascists to be evil fascist so you could choose “lesser evil”

        • uis@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          Sounds like average election candidates in Russia.

          1. Stalinist
          2. Member of LDPR
          3. “Let’s calm down” member of United Russia
          4. Noname(if lucky)

          UR always makes themselves to look like lesser evil. “Look at these clowns”, “old thief is fed up, new one will be hungry and steal more”, “look how experienced we are”. If they don’t have 1, 2 or 4th, they will make their own janitor to run against them, so they will look like “lesser evil”.

          Btw janitor won.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      And while that’s a choice between the lesser of two evils, it’s not a difficult one.

      There’s other choices. Moderates and Biden could choose to compromise with leftists and progressives any time. But all signs point to them preferring to lose to fascists a second time.

      • tills13@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        No, there are two choices. It sucks and nobody likes it but if you don’t vote for a Dem you are giving a vote to a Rep. Cut the crap.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          nobody likes it

          Moderates like it just fine. They’re happy continuing to elect awful pro-corporate, strike blocking, genocide supporting piece of shit candidates and then expecting leftists and progressives to support them in the general. If moderates didn’t like it they would have voted for one of the many alternatives in the 2020 primaries.

          You need to cut the crap. Stop lecturing leftists and progressives and giving moderates a free pass. Moderates are the majority voting bloc for Democrats and thus they take the lions share of the responsibility. Spend your effort lecturing them.

          • tills13@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I’m further left than you but anyone with a brain knows that it’s a two party system and any vote for any other party is just pissing in the ocean. Find change inside the party with progressives but at the end of the day you (unfortunately) either vote blue or red or you might as well not vote at all.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              You can call yourself whatever you want but if at the end of the day you vote like a moderate your beliefs make no difference.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  No. I’m fine with voting 3rd party or writing in knowing they’ll likely not be elected. Are moderates fine with Biden losing to Trump? If not then they need to find some policy to compromise on in order to encourage progressives and leftists to vote for Biden again. We compromised in 2020 and voted for Joe Biden in the general. We’ve gotten fuck all for it. It’s time for a compromise in the other direction. There’s no point for us to stand around a table when moderates refuse to give us a seat.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      None of these things will pass so long as moderates would rather lose to fascists than compromise with leftists and progressives.

      • Liz@midwest.social
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        4 months ago

        That’s why you gotta pass it using a referendum. Take it out of the hands of the legislators and into the hands of the people. Ohio just enshrined abortion protection into their constitution that way.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Then spend some of that energy telling moderates to start compromising with leftists and progressives if they don’t want to lose to fascists a second time.

      • III@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Sadly, while we would value your support for stopping multiple genocides by voting against Trump, your numbers are far outweighed by that of moderates. I am sorry you can’t comprehend very basic cause and effect and if that costs us our country, I guess you can rest well being so stupid you won’t think you were part of the problem.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Well which is it? If our numbers are insignificant then we can’t be part of the problem because we have no effect. Pick a lane.

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Really? Are democrats opposed to changing that, or just not prioritizing it because it can get complicated and there are a million other concerns?

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Are democrats opposed to changing that, or just not prioritizing it because it can get complicated and there are a million other concerns?

          Are those “concerns” bigger than the concern of Trump winning the general election? Make a choice. Raising the federal minimum wage in order to avoid losing to Trump sounds like a bargain to me.

        • Asafum@feddit.nl
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          4 months ago

          It’s the first part. The vast majority of Democrats are “moderate” and “corporate captured.”

          It’s not a “both sides are equally bad in all respects.” It’s “both sides will not give us a change of law to enable a living wage be the standard.” It’s only speaking to that one aspect.

          It might also be a complicated topic, but you don’t solve a complicated topic by never starting on it.

    • bob_lemon@feddit.de
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      4 months ago

      🚫 Both sides are equally bad.

      ✔️ Both sides are bad, but not remotely equally so.

  • Aolley@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    We all agree with this premise and mostly that the FPTP system is a large contributing factor to the TPS saying how it has based on seeing how places that don’t have a TPS appear to do so because the have different voting systems like different iterations of ranked choice voting.

    What I am wondering is what ‘we’ think the best way to implement voting would be?

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Can’t remember which South American country did it, might have been Venezuela, but at least one of them has an official app. You register to vote on your 18th birthday, and get daily notifications about the various proposals at each level of government that applies to your address. They also created a team to boil the proposals down into plain language. You vote personally and the government has to, in theory, listen to the will of the people.

      Of course that system will still be susceptible to propaganda, as evidenced by the fact that whatever country did it, still has some serious issues.

  • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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    4 months ago

    You need to learn a skill that leads to a living wage. Demanding politicians to directly do that is pointless, they are absolutely unable to give you that. The only thing they can directly do is set a minimum wage, which is essentially a lie. It doesn’t actually give you a minimum/living wage, instead it makes you completely unemployable if your wage level is between 0-(minimum wage).

    As u/nomad mentioned, demanding structures that make getting an education easier or give you safety nets when things go to shit, or basic income/negative tax rates for low incomes is something politicans can do. But don’t demand stupid things like minimum wage, they might actually do those.

    • olivebranch@lemmy.caOP
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      4 months ago

      Sure, it is my fault that even though there is enough food and most of the farming is automated, I still need to work for it because I don’t own the land. We shouldn’t ask them to fix it for us, they never will. We need to take control of the land that feeds us.

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        4 months ago

        I don’t know you, but I can guess: it’s almost never the individual’s fault. But we should still look for efficient solutions, not populist non-solutions.

            • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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              4 months ago

              Lmmfao, so you’re against minimum wage claiming it’s a non-solution (and also that some workers must gain further education to even “deserve” it) while advocating UBI, which is a solution on the exact same level as minimum wage is - the level that still allows capitalists to exploit the labour of others for profit (except with UBI, it is the government compensating them from the tax pot, either way, it’s working people paying the highest price - freedom).

              Never mind that the meme doesn’t offer it up as a solution to anything, but more of a bare minimum that neither democrats nor republicans will give, because, and this is the point the meme is actually making which seems to have gone completely over your head - both democrats and republicans work for capitalism, not you.

              Truth is, you’re just here to flex your “economist” muscles, but instead you’re just spewing clueless yet confident incorrectness all over the place… 😂

    • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      This is actually pure bullshit, by the way! Minimum wage is proven to be beneficial.

    • Overspark@feddit.nl
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      4 months ago

      Not sure what you have against minimum wage, it works well in other countries (I’m from the Netherlands). Obviously it doesn’t solve everything by itself, but it’s definitely a valuable part of a range of measures to treat people fairly. It’s a fantasy that everyone can be educated to a level above minimum wage.

      • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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        4 months ago

        Not sure what you have against minimum wage,

        Having bit more than basic education in economics, I suppose.

        It’s a fantasy that everyone can be educated to a level above minimum wage.

        Is it more or less a fantasy than the fantasy that every employer is able to pay the minimum wage?

        • paultimate14@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          You clearly don’t have even a basic education in economics. There’s enough data across a variety of jurisdictions and history at this point to establish the effectiveness of the minimum wage.youre choosing to ignore that and simp for managers and capital owners.

          • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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            4 months ago

            Indeed. That’s exactly what will happen. And then people whose wage level is below the minimum wage will be unemployed.

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              4 months ago

              Ah, got it, so all our problems are the fault of those pesky workers wanting to afford to survive, and not those who refuse to function unless they’re exploiting others…
              Makes perfect sense, “economist”… 🙄😂

              • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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                4 months ago

                Or UBI as we seemed to agree on other part of the thread. Either of these are better solutions than minimum wage.

                • CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de
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                  4 months ago

                  Minimum wage works. Here is an article from the german newspaper FAZ (leans economically right) that presents a study that shows the low income sector has shrunk since the implementation of minimum wages.
                  Germany before had one of the biggest low income sectors in the western world.
                  And no, the unemployment rate did not skyrocket. In fact, Germany is as close to full employment as it gets.

        • Cowbee@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          You clearly don’t have more than a basic education in economics if you’re peddling debunked bullshit.

        • irmoz@reddthat.com
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          4 months ago

          You are not entitled workers just because you started a business. Pay them well or don’t run a business

          • mellowheat@suppo.fi
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            4 months ago

            Yes, that’s what happens in a minimum wage environment, although not every single time like people have shown in these threads. But when somebody doesn’t start a business, that’s invisible.

            What is visible is when an existing business’s costs rise above the minimum wage level. There are plenty of reasons why this could happen, 9/10 of them not being “the C-levels are paid too much”. That’s when they start firing people or just go under which essentially fires everyone.

            Perhaps we want a society that don’t have employment for the people who can only work below a minimum wage level. That’s some sort of a decision, I just want to be honest about making that decision.

            • irmoz@reddthat.com
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              4 months ago

              It doesn’t even happen a statistically significant number of times, you’re just parrotting what executives want you to believe, believing they know what’s best for you

        • rynzcycle@kbin.social
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          4 months ago

          These folks seem to have a different understanding than you.

          Specifically:

          Since as many as 10 percent of the lowest-wage workers leave or start jobs every month, any decrease in the number of full-time equivalent jobs will mean that some workers will take more time finding a new job, or will work fewer hours. But many of these workers may still see their annual earnings rise because of their wage increase.

    • gigachad@feddit.de
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      4 months ago

      You need to learn a skill that leads to a living wage. Demanding politicians to directly do that

      This is a perfect example of traditional neoliberal rhetoric, attributing success solely to individual effort and downplaying structural obstacles. It operates under the assumption that everyone has equal opportunities for success, which is simply not the case. This ideology perpetuates the existence of a low-wage sector for those who may not have had access to the same educational opportunities, such as migrants, single parents, and others facing systemic barriers. The American Dream, often touted as a symbol of success through hard work, is a myth perpetuated by neoliberalism. It is important not to buy into the narrative that one’s circumstances are solely their own fault. Statistics show that social mobility is much lower in the US compared to many European countries, which further disproves the idea that hard work alone guarantees success.

      • ninjaphysics@beehaw.org
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        4 months ago

        Precisely this. People are taught by the wealthy class to devalue certain jobs because they are deemed “lesser than,” and that the people that occupy those jobs are “not worthy” of a living wage, benefits, a stable living situation, respect, and more. This systematic dehumanization prevents us from realizing the true harms that working class people of all backgrounds are experiencing. Of course, the harms are compounded if you identify as a woman, a person of color, as having a disability, or if you don’t speak the native language.

        Environmental Justice is what we need - a sense of community, mutual support, and a collective realization of past harms that have been baked into every policy, from the local to the federal level. These harmful policies have to be disrupted and dismantled, which can only be possible through education and action. The more people that engage in collective action under the banner of Environmental Justice, the better chance we have of really making meaningful, positive change.

        /rant

    • abbenm@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      It’s just shallow and disappointing.

      Your idea of what politics is about has to be bigger than shitposting and trolling.

        • abbenm@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          Oh phew, I was worried. Okay okay, what year is it? Do you have any plutonium? I need to get back to my dimension and you’ve been so helpful so far

        • abbenm@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          I love this, nobody can actually defend this as a healthy way of engaging with politics.

  • frobeniusnorm@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Its always refreshing to look at the american political system if i am disappointed by the German one. Sure our sucks too, but at least we have more then 2 unvotable major parties.

    • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      In the German system (or any other multiparty system), voters can effectively punish a political party without wasting their vote, because there is a lot of overlap between the parties.

      If you don’t like the current coalition but are a left-leaning person, you can vote for Die Linke. You might not agree with all of their positions but you at least can agree with some of them. Even if that is not palatable if you previously voted SDP you can switch your vote to Green or vice versa to punish the specific officeholders representing your constituency. If you voted for the FDP last time, maybe try Union next time. There are many ways to do this, and overall I think it makes the parties themselves more accountable to the voters because voters defecting their party list votes can drastically change the makeup of the Bundestag.

      Similarly, right-leaning UK voters are punishing the Conservative Party by threatening to or actually voting for Reform candidates. Scots can punish the SNP by voting Labour.

      You can’t do this in the US. In the USA, the only recourse the voters have over the parties is to vote out undesirable candidates through primary elections so that the party cannot nominate them. This works alright, sometimes, but it is not an effective way to punish party leadership for bad decisions, and many primaries are uncompetitive anyway.