So you decide that the best course of action is to allow a man who has explicitly stated he just wants to see the whole place razed to regain power? How did that help Gaza at all?
Well the guy who explicitly stated he just wants to see the whole place razed got the ceasefire Biden “tried” and failed to achieve for 15 months, which I’d say helped Gaza.
Sure, in the same way Reagan “got the hostages released” – by colluding with another fascist to make each other look good, so they can gain power and execute their agenda (and their enemies) later.
Okay I won’t deny that this possibility exists—though I don’t think it’s likely either—but okay, and? Muslims in America wanted one thing: A Gaza ceasefire. Biden didn’t give them that, but Trump did. Therefore the idea that Trump was going to or is funding the genocide harder than Biden did is simply false.
I’ll wait till I see what Egypt and Jordan have to say about this. If they accept, which is necessary for Trump’s plan and exceedingly unlikely, I’ll eat my words.
Whether Egypt or Jordan accept or not is completely beside the point. Forced relocation is genocide. Trump supports genocide of the Palestinians – it’s right there printed in black and white.
If they don’t accept he’ll have nowhere to relocate them to, is my point. That will be the decider of whether this is just rhetoric (which has always been awful; this is Donald “finish the job” Trump) or real action.
First of all, to try to do ethnic cleansing and fail is to still be genocidal. Second, if there’s nowhere for them to go Trump will just let Netanyahu kill them all outright.
In an “ends justify the means” way, sure. (And I’ll concede that an ends-justify-the-means victory is still a victory some are willing to accept). He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn’t give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure. Trump basically “won” by saying he’s going to turn up the genocide, and maybe he’ll hold back the genocide for a little while if Hamas gives up the hostages. And that’s where we are now. Gaza gets to exist until Trump says they don’t.
He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn’t give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure.
Hamas was never the ones stopping the deal from happening; that was always Israel, whom Trump told in no uncertain terms to end the war or else. I won’t deny the possibility that Hamas was also pushed along by Trump, but remember that Hamas wanted to give up the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. That was the whole point of taking hostages back in October 7th, and they accepted the deal when Biden first presented it in May.
Okay, and? I think you’re misunderstanding something here: The problem with Biden and Harris after him was never that they were just Zionists; all American presidents who were contemporary with Israel were Zionists. The problem was that the level and scale of cruelty they accepted and supported in the Gaza war was unprecedented. Even the Zionist American government would normally not allow Israel to commit genocide on such a scale. See: Reagan during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Tell me he’s worse than Biden when he allows something on that scale; otherwise he’s just a regular US president aiding regular crimes against humanity.
whom Trump told in no uncertain terms to end the war or else
You make it sound like he’s not joined at the hip to Netanyahu. “Don’t finish the genocode, we’ll do it for you” isn’t really ending the war, is it? It looks more like an escalation, as does the mass expulsion he’s proposing, which is, by all accepted definitions, genocide.
In my defense I wrote this before the “let’s flatten Gaza” stuff. I am, however, taking solace in the fact that what Trump is trying to do is geopolitically impossible.
Not really. The ‘deal’ that both agreed to back then was presented differently to each side, which caused it to collapse. You can find articles on how the Egyptian negotiators fiddled with the texts to mispresent (important) details.
I think it’s clear Hamas were made to understand they shouldn’t worry too much about said details because it’d be the last chance for any deal.
According to the Wikipedia article (and, you know, anyone who paid attention to ceasefire negotiations) the main obstacle in the way of the ceasefire was Israel’s fundamental objection to a permanent ceasefire. Hamas’s concerns only came second, if at all, in stopping negotiations from progressing. I mean remember that during negotiations Israel attacked Rafah, so… yeah.
I don’t know which exact article you’re referencing, but the current deal is as ambiguous about the ceasefire being ‘permanent’ as the ones mid 2024.
For instance, one of the conditions that Hamas agreed to is that they ‘won’t rebuild militarily’. I don’t know how familiar you are with their raison d’être but I predict the Israelis won’t have to wait long before they can accuse Hamas to be in breach of this.
With their hostages gone, Trump in the WH, a world ever more tired of the conflict,… What’s going to stop Bibi and his cronies then?
IMO, Hamas only had some breathing room because Trump wanted the PR. But he’s already commented he doesn’t expect it to last (!) and apparently promised Bibi he can do whatever he wants in the West Bank, keeping busy while the bombs get restocked.
For instance, one of the conditions that Hamas agreed to is that they ‘won’t rebuild militarily’. I don’t know how familiar you are with their raison d’être but I predict the Israelis won’t have to wait long before they can accuse Hamas to be in breach of this.
There’s also no way Israel is going to lift the blockade, so we’ll probably see a return to something resembling the prewar status quo.
IMO, Hamas only had some breathing room because Trump wanted the PR. But he’s already commented he doesn’t expect it to last (!)
Yeah that’s not good. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
So you decide that the best course of action is to allow a man who has explicitly stated he just wants to see the whole place razed to regain power? How did that help Gaza at all?
Well the guy who explicitly stated he just wants to see the whole place razed got the ceasefire Biden “tried” and failed to achieve for 15 months, which I’d say helped Gaza.
Sure, in the same way Reagan “got the hostages released” – by colluding with another fascist to make each other look good, so they can gain power and execute their agenda (and their enemies) later.
You’ve been played and you don’t even realize it.
Okay I won’t deny that this possibility exists—though I don’t think it’s likely either—but okay, and? Muslims in America wanted one thing: A Gaza ceasefire. Biden didn’t give them that, but Trump did. Therefore the idea that Trump was going to or is funding the genocide harder than Biden did is simply false.
Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza – President in effect endorses ethnic cleansing of territory before hosting meeting with Benjamin Netanyahu
I fucking told you so.
I’ll wait till I see what Egypt and Jordan have to say about this. If they accept, which is necessary for Trump’s plan and exceedingly unlikely, I’ll eat my words.
Whether Egypt or Jordan accept or not is completely beside the point. Forced relocation is genocide. Trump supports genocide of the Palestinians – it’s right there printed in black and white.
If they don’t accept he’ll have nowhere to relocate them to, is my point. That will be the decider of whether this is just rhetoric (which has always been awful; this is Donald “finish the job” Trump) or real action.
And if the Egyptians start firing on Gaza Palestinians as they’re forced across the border, do you think Trump or Netanyahu will care?
First of all, to try to do ethnic cleansing and fail is to still be genocidal. Second, if there’s nowhere for them to go Trump will just let Netanyahu kill them all outright.
Stop trying to “both sides” genocide, liar!
What Egypt or Jordan say doesn’t matter. He’ll expel the people of Gaza regardless.
In an “ends justify the means” way, sure. (And I’ll concede that an ends-justify-the-means victory is still a victory some are willing to accept). He basically threatened to nuke and pave the place if Hamas didn’t give up the hostages. So if you consider that a win, then sure. Trump basically “won” by saying he’s going to turn up the genocide, and maybe he’ll hold back the genocide for a little while if Hamas gives up the hostages. And that’s where we are now. Gaza gets to exist until Trump says they don’t.
Hamas was never the ones stopping the deal from happening; that was always Israel, whom Trump told in no uncertain terms to end the war or else. I won’t deny the possibility that Hamas was also pushed along by Trump, but remember that Hamas wanted to give up the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. That was the whole point of taking hostages back in October 7th, and they accepted the deal when Biden first presented it in May.
He also approved them moving the violence to the West Bank.
Okay, and? I think you’re misunderstanding something here: The problem with Biden and Harris after him was never that they were just Zionists; all American presidents who were contemporary with Israel were Zionists. The problem was that the level and scale of cruelty they accepted and supported in the Gaza war was unprecedented. Even the Zionist American government would normally not allow Israel to commit genocide on such a scale. See: Reagan during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Tell me he’s worse than Biden when he allows something on that scale; otherwise he’s just a regular US president aiding regular crimes against humanity.
You make it sound like he’s not joined at the hip to Netanyahu. “Don’t finish the genocode, we’ll do it for you” isn’t really ending the war, is it? It looks more like an escalation, as does the mass expulsion he’s proposing, which is, by all accepted definitions, genocide.
In my defense I wrote this before the “let’s flatten Gaza” stuff. I am, however, taking solace in the fact that what Trump is trying to do is geopolitically impossible.
Why do you think Hamas suddenly accepted the deal they got presented by Biden earlier?
Uh… Hamas had always accepted the deal? They accepted the deal when Biden presented it in 2024.
Not really. The ‘deal’ that both agreed to back then was presented differently to each side, which caused it to collapse. You can find articles on how the Egyptian negotiators fiddled with the texts to mispresent (important) details.
I think it’s clear Hamas were made to understand they shouldn’t worry too much about said details because it’d be the last chance for any deal.
According to the Wikipedia article (and, you know, anyone who paid attention to ceasefire negotiations) the main obstacle in the way of the ceasefire was Israel’s fundamental objection to a permanent ceasefire. Hamas’s concerns only came second, if at all, in stopping negotiations from progressing. I mean remember that during negotiations Israel attacked Rafah, so… yeah.
I don’t know which exact article you’re referencing, but the current deal is as ambiguous about the ceasefire being ‘permanent’ as the ones mid 2024.
For instance, one of the conditions that Hamas agreed to is that they ‘won’t rebuild militarily’. I don’t know how familiar you are with their raison d’être but I predict the Israelis won’t have to wait long before they can accuse Hamas to be in breach of this.
With their hostages gone, Trump in the WH, a world ever more tired of the conflict,… What’s going to stop Bibi and his cronies then?
IMO, Hamas only had some breathing room because Trump wanted the PR. But he’s already commented he doesn’t expect it to last (!) and apparently promised Bibi he can do whatever he wants in the West Bank, keeping busy while the bombs get restocked.
Oh that’s right my bad. There.
There’s also no way Israel is going to lift the blockade, so we’ll probably see a return to something resembling the prewar status quo.
Yeah that’s not good. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.