Hello World, As many of you have probably noticed, there is a growing problem on the internet when it comes to undisclosed bias in both amateur and professional reporting. While not every outlet can be like the C-SPAN, or Reuters, we also believe that it’s impossible to remove the human element from the news, especially when it concerns, well, humans.
To this end, we’ve created a media bias bot, which we hope will keep everyone informed about WHO, not just the WHAT of posted articles. This bot uses Media Bias/Fact Check to add a simple reply to show bias. We feel this is especially important with the US Election coming up. The bot will also provide links to Ground.News, as well, which we feel is a great source to determine the WHOLE coverage of a given article and/or topic.
As always feedback is welcome, as this is a active project which we really hope will benefit the community.
Thanks!
FHF / LemmyWorld Admin team 💖
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What a terrible idea.
MBFC is already incredibly biased.
It should be rejected not promoted.
Ok then tell me an alternative we can use in the scale for free.
None? Then pls dont just complain complain complain… And dont suggest improvements.
So much for “feedback is welcome” I guess
Figured it would take more than a day for that response to happen lol
You don’t.
There doesn’t exist a site to magically do what you want.
Likewise it’s not needed. It doesn’t add to the quality of discussion on the community. All it’s going to do is cause conflict as we now have to constantly point out to people how garbage the source is so that they don’t let it influence them.
Boooo. Running a community as a mod-dictator and not being able to hear feedback and react to it like an adult. Just because you thought of something, doesn’t mean it is a good idea or that people will like it. The approach of “better than nothing” is naive and plain wrong - misinformation isn’t “better than nothing” it actively hurts the community.
Please remove this bot.
No we dont. We saw the expected “ReMoVe ThE BoT” comments, because MBFC did hurt their feelings by not rating their favourite newspage the highest creditability on earth.
And just block it, then you can imagine how it is without the bot.
I don’t care what it rates a particular news page, I care that you’re treating this as an objective/unbiased authority on truth that you feel needs to be communicated on every single post.
You could take a moment to reflect on all of the responses you’ve received, but your comments make it clear that you don’t value other perspectives.
Seeing as this is the stance the admins stance on decisions that are majority hated by the community, I’m just gonna leave this instance and go to one with admins that are more user-focused.
I expect community leaders to take reasonable feedback from the community respectfully even if they disagree, rather than doubling down on very unpopular decisions. Especially when said community funds the platform.
The majority of the bots posts have more downvotes than upvotes. The community has voiced its dislike for this bot as a majority.
I find the only people that say MBFC is biased, are just saying they themselves have biased opinions so they don’t agree with the MBFC rating
I’m 1000% with you on this
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Choosing one organization to be the arbiter of truth and bias gives them way too much power. I think fact checking should be the responsibility of whoever reads the article.
Yes, everyone should always do all their own work every time. Trust nothing! Formula of gravity? Newton and Einstein might be liars, and all the science textbooks could be complicit. Do your own research. Conduct your own experiments. Is the Earth flat? Grab a sailboat and find out!
/parody
Oh, lovely. Ministry of Truth Bots…
This is predicated on the assumption that those organizations are neutral arbitrators of facts, but they aren’t.
They might have a better gauge on reality than OAN, or PatriotEagleNews.ru, but that doesn’t mean platform moderators should present them as if they are a source of universal truth.
People can be critical of posts, comments, and their sources, without the heavy hand of moderators using a privatized Ministry of Truth.
We don’t even have to look very far back to see how platform level “fact checking” systems are used and abused to silence and suppress information that goes against mainstream narratives or is viewed as politically damaging.
Its better to have some “fact checking” than the “trust me bro” system.
We all know all “fact checking” systems have humans behind it, those humans can have biases, dislikes or do mistakes. But thats the reason why we should not have such system is not good. Its the viewers discretion to believe into the fact/bias checks of the given page. We are just giving our best effort to simplify the view.
Then i give you the recommendation to block the bot, if you dont like it.
No it’s not.
Bad fact checking is more harmful than not.
You’re putting your moderators hands on the scale and that far outweighs any community/user input into the validity of information discussed here.
On a completely unrelated note, did you know that Hamas went on a baby beheading spree on Oct. 7?
I know this because I read it on MSN.com, and your MediaBiasFactCheck said that MSN.com has a HIGH FACTUAL RATING
Anyone is free to rip apart my comment, and that source, but that task becomes more difficult when bots that have been anointed as bias and fact checkers, contradict them in any way, or are themselves biased.
MiniTrue would just remove wrongthink, so that’s hyperbolic.
I don’t love relying on this one source of fact/bias checking so much, but the general idea of not allowing unrestricted use of whatever source without warning is good.
I’m just gonna drop this here as an example:
- https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-jerusalem-report/
- https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-jerusalem-post/
The Jerusalem Report (Owned by Jerusalem Post) and the Jerusalem Post
This biased as shit publication is declared by MBFC as VEEEERY slightly center-right. They make almost no mention of the fact that they cherry pick aspects of the Israel war to highlight, provide only the most favorable context imaginable, yadda yadda. By no stretch of the imagination would these publications be considered unbiased as sources, yet according to MBFC they’re near perfect.
Interesting how @Rooki is still a day later active in this post responding to all the comments supporting their bot, but manages to avoid replying to all the legitimate criticisms on display.
Really shows the mods don’t value feedback, which begs the question why even bother making a thread to get feedback if you’ve already made up your mind.
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yet according to MBFC they’re near perfect
Here are some quotes from the link you posted:
They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appealing to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation.
After Conrad Black acquired the paper, its political position changed to right-leaning, when Black began hiring conservative journalists and editors. Eli Azur is the current owner of Jerusalem Post. According to Ynetnews, and a Haaretz article, “Benjamin Netanyahu, the Editor in Chief,” in 2017, Azur gave testimony regarding Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s pressure. Current Editor Yaakov Katz was the former senior policy advisor to Naftali Bennett, the former Prime Minister and head of the far-right political party, “New Right.”
During the 2023 Israel-Hamas conflict, the majority of stories favored the Israeli government, such as this Netanyahu to Hezbollah: If you attack, we’ll turn Beirut into Gaza. In general, the Jerusalem Post holds right-leaning editorial biases and is usually factual in reporting.
Overall, we rate The Jerusalem Post Right-Center biased based on editorial positions that favor the right-leaning government. We also rate them Mostly Factual for reporting, rather than High due to two failed fact checks.
Based on MBFC’s methodology, they can’t have more than 6 points (out of 10) toward credibility, which is the floor for high credibility. They’re one lost point from being listed as a medium credibility source, not “near perfect.” They’ve also failed two fact checks in news reporting (not op-ed), which is seriously non-perfect. No one reading that page could walk away thinking that jpost isn’t biased toward both the current Israeli government and conservative causes. MBFC calling them “right-center” is also consistent with how they’re rated just about everywhere else. AllSides rates them as “center” (with a note that community feedback in disagreement believes they “lean right”) and even Wikipedia describes them as “center-right/conservative”.
What exactly are you angry about here?
MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY
Because? You’re angry that they have a methodology? You’re angry that they’re basing it on the paper as a whole and not solely on their coverage of Gaza?
Because they’re in agreement with you. When someone posts a Jerusalem Post story about Gaza, MBFC is saying “this source is heavily biased toward the Israeli government.” Even if their coverage is factual, you’re not getting the full context of what’s happening in the conflict.
I love this, but I would like to state that Media Bias Fact Check seems to have a pro-Israel bias.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mondoweiss/
- Overall, we rate Mondoweiss as Left Biased and Questionable due to the blending of opinion with news, the promotion of pro-Palestinian and anti-zionist propaganda, occasional reliance on poor sources, and hate group designation by third-party pro-Israel advocates.
I feel like “blending of opinion with news” and “occasional reliance on poor sources” is all that really need be said.
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It’s about the bias rating. Using explicitly biased sources when rating a source makes for a bad rating.
On whose behalf? I’ve sensed bias from the brief glances I’ve given them, so I didn’t keep reading enough to actually analyze it.
We don’t allow Mondoweiss links either.
I independently checked Mondoweiss using Media Bias a few months ago because it was posted elsewhere and I had not heard of it before, but was disturbed to see the extra reasoning behind the rating.
It’s for sure questionable at best, the Wikipedia discussion someone else posted was enlightening on that, but “designation as a hate-group by pro-Israel” sources doesn’t really mean much when sources like the ADL equivocate anti-Zionism and anti-Semitic rhetoric in bad faith.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/06/26/wikipedia-adl-jew-zionism-israel/
Again, I love the bot, but wanted to state something to be conscious of
Yeah, I looked into it as well, there was someone intent on repeatedly posting Mondoweiss links and they would always get reported.
It’s trash tier reporting.
That’s just introducing 2 more sources of bias
Yes, that everyone make a better picture. Instead of getting shouted at by one manipulative entity.
Have you looked into who runs Media Bias Fact Check? It’s pretty much as opaque as it gets for a website that claim to have an authoritative list of biases for hundreds of websites. Just because it’s a meta source does not make it any more credible than any other random website.
Have you ever investigated every news page for its bias? With no pay? I guess not. In the end there is a human doing that manually.
Because of that we added the ground.news search url, so that if you didnt believed it you can get other news pages thoughts on this article.
Have you looked into who runs Media Bias Fact Check? It’s pretty much as opaque as it getsI haven’t even tried to look for their about page or an FAQ.ftfy
Not quite as opaque as it gets, certainly.
Media Bias Fact Check, LLC is a Limited Liability Company owned solely by Dave Van Zandt. He also makes all final editing and publishing decisions.
Yeah, looks great to me.
That’s a fair criticism. It is not opacity, however. The full real name of your lead guy is transparency.
How do you verify who these people are? For all you know it’s just a bunch of fake names on a page.
That’s true of all names. At a certain point you can simply decide to trust nothing if that’s what you want. Plenty of people do, though personally I think that’s foolish due to the pointless nihilism it results in.
Uh, you know that the information is right there, right? It even says where their sources of funding are: ads that are based on your browser history (e.g., shit like AdSense), individual donations, and individual memberships.
I’m not talking about their source of funding but their qualifications in making claims with such broad implications. It looks like the pet project of some guy and couple faceless names who do not even claim any meaningful professional or academic experience.
Here’s an example from your link:
Jim resides in Shreveport, Louisiana with his two boys and is currently working toward pursuing a degree in Psychology/Addiction. Jim is a registered independent voter that tends to lean conservative on most issues.
MBFC is entirely the opinion of some guy and his team of mystery helpers.
It’s pure garbage and one look into it shows how pathetic the biases are.
Both sides? Geeet outta here.
That’s literally what the other source being added called Groundnews attempts to do.
I understand your edgy take, but equivocating reliable and consistent mediators that accurately discern real news from propaganda with trash like Infowars as “more bias” is nonsense.
Yeah, I’m not saying all their work is worthless and I know they’re good enough for the most extreme sources of misinformation but to paint entire publications as not reliable based on the assessment of couple laypeople with an inherently narrow worldview (at least a very American-centric one) is the opposite of avoiding bias in my opinion.
Not entirely and unequivocally avoiding bias every time isn’t the “opposite of avoiding bias”, it’s an example of perfect being the enemy of good.
There may technically be inherent bias everywhere, but it’s at best useless and in practice harmful and inaccurate to lump MBFC in with grayzone and to equivocate in general.
Example from 2020:
“Biden is just another politician, like Trump”
Technically true that they are both politicians, but without recognizing the difference between Biden and trump, the states wouldn’t have student debt cancellations, no federal minority legal defenses, fifty plus liberally appointed judges, no reversal of the trans ban, no veteran health coverage for toxic exposure, no green new deal, no international climate accords, no healthcare expansion and so on.
or:
“who cares, it’s just another plant”, but arugula is a great salad green while a bite of foxglove can kill you.
It’s important to recognize the shades of grey and distinguish one from another.
How fucked is it that such a poorly written book has ruined the extremely useful phrase “shades of grey”?
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/radio-free-asia/
This what scores you high credibility: “a less direct propaganda approach” for state sponsored media that is not critical of its sponsor
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/al-jazeera/
And this is what scores you mixed credibility: “exhibits significant bias against Israel” for state sponsored media that is not critical of its sponsor (updated in Oct 2023 naturally)
Now every article published by Radio Free Asia is deemed more credible than those published by Al Jazeera despite the former literally being called a former propaganda arm of the state in their own assessment. Yes, good is not the enemy of perfect but this is clearly an ideological decision in both instances.
CNN also scores as Mostly Factual based on “due to two failed fact checks in the last five years” one being a single reporter’s statement and the other being about Greenland’s ice sheets. That doesn’t seem like a fair assessment to me
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/
So based on this I am supposed to conclude that Radio Free Asia is the most credible source out of the three at a glance.
“good is not the enemy of perfect”
Incorrect quote.
Your problem is making “perfect the enemy of good.”
You are
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mistaking bias check for news reporting
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making perfection the enemy of the good
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arguing that mostly doesn’t mean mostly(spoiler, mostly does mean mostly)
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“this is clearly an ideological decision”: No, your examples provided are both conclusions based on consistent objective standards, the opposite of ideology.
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Given the overwhelmingly negative response from the community, what is the justification for leaving the bot in place? Is it because the moderators think they know better than everyone else?
Overwhelmingly negative? Those are the 24/7 negative users. We do anything: Those guys: THIS IS IS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY
So you stand alone in that statement. See the post vote score.
We give you the option to block it. Block it.
Numerous comments contain thoughtfully researched, balanced and reasonable criticisms, and your reaction is to basically call them just a bunch of negative nellies, rather than to consider maybe whether they have a point.
If I made a bot that shared fake news in comments on every single news story, would you say that having the option to block that bot is sufficient? I can block anyone, yet you still ban people for breaking the rules here.
You’re getting way too defensive, and digging your heels in - criticism isn’t always bad faith.
They have a point but strict fake news it isnt. It is not an option to leave it without any second bias opinion. Its not banning anyone. If you dislike it and demand it to be shutdown for democracy. Then you arent allowing other opinions.
You’ve made a bot which shares the political opinions of one dude as a comment to every single news story on here. A pro-zionist, right-wing dude.
I’m willing to make a public API to share my media bias and fact-checking report, as well. Will you add my opinion to every news post automatically as well, please? It would save me a lot of trouble!
Got it, only enthusiastic yes men are actually counted as valid members of the community.
Interesting take, gotta admit.
Real Reddit vibes from Rooki over this one.
could you have the bot automatically unvote its posts (make it 0) so it goes under new comments when sorted by votes?
the spoiler thing doesn’t work on eternity and it kinda hides everything under it being so long
I wish bot comments didn’t count toward the comment count, too. It’s annoying to see “1 comment” and then you look and it’s just this or the summary bot.
Bot: Hmm this article reflects reality, thus it is biased to the left.
Using charged language like that constitutes disinformation and is reprehensible. Imagine if viewers started disregarding a source on account of your bot declaring it biased.
Shameful.
So is it time for a new news community then if the admins don’t want to listen?
You can even be better than that! You can make a community that fact check news article / news pages. Then we can add the threads from that community to the bot and have there news page specific discussion.
Remove that. It’s too US centric. I don’t want that here.
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Media Bias Fact Check is totally meaningless in world news since the overwhelming majority of international news coverage seen in the west is filtered through just three global agencies, AP, AFP and Reuters and they always toe a pro US/Nato line.
Thanks for this Rooki!
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Good, one should always refer to the Ministry of Truth before deciding what is true or false for The Party.
