So… Someone is going to jail for that, right?
Right?
Ahh i remember the days of the school shitbook pros. That kids is why when 2020 rolled around and all my classes went to online and they wanted me to use there laptops provided. I made a disk image of the ssd and ran it all in a VM with usb passthrough. Cant acess my webcam if there is none!
You know, a piece of black tape would’ve been a lot easier.
Or if computer manufacturers just put in a hardware disconnect for the camera and mic. Like Lenovo used to do with the wifi switch.
That wont help with recording the audio from the mic
Hardware manufactures could (and should) put separate mic and cam LEDs wired directly in line with (wire in parallel to)the power circuits for the mic and camera. They won’t, but they should. Best they ever do is a digitally controlled LED that is sketchy as fuck, for the camera only.
Framework does. Switches for the mic and camera both electrically disconnect the devices: https://community.frame.work/t/the-1080p-webcam/157
It’s a bit more expensive, because a pure electrical switch wouldn’t age well and you’d get bad connections sometimes. They implemented an optical switch that does the same job. That’s probably whole pennies per unit more expensive, and ain’t HP got time for that.
That’s actually really cool. Framework will likely be my next laptop.
“I like Apple devices because they respect my privacy”
Except for the part where all that’s been preempted by organizational settings.
Out of the box, Apple does fairly well.
Gotta respect a company that tells the US government to pound sand with regularity (when they want a phone cracked)
“Apple gave data to law enforcement 90% of the time”
Apple’s apparent privacy stance is just marketing
Aren’t they required to by law?
Without a warrant no, but for the most part they do it willingly.
Gotta respect a company
No you don’t
Fair point! Fuck 'em. Theres always more reasons to NOT respect a corporation than there are to respect them.
The worst part about this IMO is the school system teaching digital dependency on proprietary software vendors.
Big tech salivates at the thought of being a child’s “first”… much like other kinds of child groomers.
They’ve gotta use something. There are only 3 choices, and one of those has less than 3% market share. Of the two choices left, Mac is the better choice.
If you issue laptops, market share should not be your consideration except for availability of programs and tech support.
Linux has plenty of both, and the obvious advantage of being open source and transparent.
Btw, many governments are currently transitioning to Linux for that very reason.
Schools are going to train kids on systems that they may encounter in the business world, and their chances of encountering a Linux DE are vanishingly small. Idk how many governments are transitioning to Linux, but the United States government wasn’t doing so when this US school issued laptops. I love Linux and use it on all my computers, but I’m realistic enough to understand why the school issued Mac or Windows.
I see your point, thanks.
On the other hand, who if not state could help Linux adoption? If such programs would become universal, students would train on Linux, and businesses would be compelled to adapt.
Real question - WTF does market share have to do with this?
No one running a program like this is gonna care about “market share”.
Most are gonna be 'give me cheapest you got" even if that means buying HS students baby’s 1st computer from ‘Fissure Nice’ (because they aint gonna spend money that can go in their pocket for name brand shit)
Schools exist to prepare students for their adult life, and the working world. They’re going to choose an operating system that the students are likely to encounter at their jobs, and elsewhere in their lives.
Most are gonna be 'give me cheapest you got" even if that means buying HS students baby’s 1st computer from ‘Fissure Nice’ (because they aint gonna spend money that can go in their pocket for name brand shit)
They gave them MacBooks, so I’m not sure how you are arriving at this conclusion. School administrators don’t get to pocket any school budget money that they don’t spend on students.
This is such a bad take. You’re seriously comparing the purchase of a tool brand for students to child grooming? Jesus dude. A computer is simply a tool, and Apple made one for an education market and price that was complete and convenient for that purpose. This is just as “bad” as them relying on all Pearson branded materials. Are there problems there? Yes, obviously. Pearson has market-based motives to keep schools on their materials and so they have tests that lean in on their text books and it’s all kinda gross. But it’s not like the answer is “let’s all just read Wikipedia in class” or “let’s compare all the different source books and find the real truth” as great as that would be, it’s just not realistic and the one reference isn’t particularly bad, it’s just not the best possible. I guess all that to say chill he fuck out, the solution to everything isn’t open source.
No. It is not a bad take. Just look at candy cigarettes.
Oh it’s just advertising? Advertising is brainwashing, and nothing more. It should be outright banned. Especially campaigns targeting children.
The marketing wasn’t to children? It was to schools? They still do market to children (like the iPhone and messaging) but CHILD GROOMING?!? Fuck off. Trying to sell legos to children so they’ll be hooked on high-quality plastic toys is also grooming? Y’all are fucking stupid.
Hit a nerve? I stand by my assertion that “tech in education” initiatives by predatory vendors is akin to grooming children. Get them to speak the language of your product early, so that they’ll be a customer for life. IIRC the term is called “Cradle to grave marketing”[1] [2]. Leverage imprinting along the way for good measure. I get why the Googles and the Microsofts of the world are so eager to get their products into schools. That doesn’t mean that I agree with it.
I’m not saying marketing to children isn’t predatory. But this is a tool they need in school. It’s not practical at all to suggest they should be building computers and compiling their own OSes for school. Selling a product for use as a tool to children isn’t grooming. It’s definitely a marketing tactic, but so is everything?
and kids need stress relief, so why not let joe camel give it to them?
So in this argument, Macs are tabaco and Linux would be… vaping? I’m not exactly sure what the absolutely necessary stress relief product would be in which a certain brand and an open source alternative would make sense to be comparable to cigarettes.
Maybe more like Jansport. Is jansport grooming kids to like a specific brand of backpacks? Or Nike for specific shoe brands? Or Kellogg and Tony the Tiger? All of these things pray on social expectations and the impressionable nature of children. Just because the school is providing fucking Lucern milk doesn’t mean they’re grooming kids to have a fondness and expectation for that milk brand. I understand this isn’t’ a popular opinion on the fedi, and I’m not fond of the big tech brands shitty tactics. But you’re all unrealistic dipshits.
you’re saying we should give kids cigarettes? or something like cigarettes? maybe kids don’t need to be addicted to things?
if you really need to keep this metaphor going, linux is, like, meditation or cognitive behavioral therapy or having friends, because its generally good for you, and doesn’t lock you into a bullshit proprietary ecosystem like tobacco or macs do.
see, the thing about lucerne milk is, if im making a milkshake, and I run out of lucerne milk but have an unopened bag of canadian milk, I can pour in the weird-ass canadian milk (spilling half of it because what kind of freaks put milk in a bag?) and it will work and be fine. because its just a company selling milk. all the milk is just milk. milk, in fact, is interoperable, and open if not free. hell, I can make milk if I really desperately want to.
if I have an apple product, and want to make it work with a non-apple-approved product, im going to have to fight their engineers at every step. fuck, getting them to start using FUCKING TCP/IP was like pulling teeth.
It’s not practical at all to suggest they should be building computers and compiling their own OSes for school.
Who was suggesting custom built PCs or Gentoo for schools?
comparison to pedophiles? maybe unfair. comparison to big tobacco? on fucking point.
a computer is a tool, sure, and the hardware is largely opaque at the high school level, excepting massive nerds
but every single one of these big tech companies runs all their shit on proprietary ecosystem lock-in, and keeping customers infantilized.
anything that isn’t open source should be fucking banned from schools.
I am absolutely not terribly invested here. But I wanted to kick something around (I opened the wiki and just decided I don’t care that much to invest time into this but it is a thought kicking around my brain so I figured I’ll express it here) - I am wondering if the school that did this is relatively wealthy. As Macbooks aren’t cheap, and I think most schools were tossing around chromebooks instead right? So perhaps the reason why nobody ultimately got in the appropriate amount of trouble for this crime is because they themselves were people of a certain status. Or knew how to grease the right palms.
It’s a suburb just outside Philadelphia and has some very wealthy parts. Kobe Bryant grew up there.
Yeah, see. I’ve seen some schools in my travels that make me want to slap someone. Because I am astonished at how far the haves and the have nots are apart. But also, I’d say in general whenever the sentence never seems to align with the punishment you can bet there’s some classist mechanisms in the works.
The program began in the 2009 school year. The first Cr-48 was released in December 2010.
That sounds unlikely to me. If the school is wealthy, then so are their students’ families.
Yeah Lower Merion is rich. It’s where Kobe came from.
The beef?
No, the rapist.
I hate Apple so god damned much. When I got started in 2003 with the cohort I was in for my elementary education degree, the university required us to get an Apple MacBook G4. We weren’t allowed to choose any other laptop, just that one, and we had to get it from the campus computer store (so of course the school was getting a kickback 🖕).
The power cord on those had a weird round dongle on the end that plugged into the computer. In the center of the dongle was a very thin pin. So, of course, I accidentally tripped on it, and the pin snapped off inside the computer. Easy enough to remove, but it meant I had to buy a brand new adapter to do my coursework.
$80.
Eighty fucking dollars. And there were no third-party adapters at the time (at least when I looked). Oh, and that replacement adapter? CAUGHT ON FUCKING FIRE.
I have not spend a dime on anything Apple touches since then. I’ve been issued iPads by school districts for which I’ve worked in the past, but those pretty much stay locked up in my cabinet. Nope…no Apple Music, no Apple TV, not even a covered-by-the-district $1.99 app for my school iPad.
Luckily, as teacher, I’ve either been issued a Dell or at the very least a MacBook Air with Windows 10 bootcamped every year since. Unfortunately, I am in a new district in Oregon this year (had been in Texas), and my device this year is a non-bootcampable MacBook Air. 🤬
The power cord on those had a weird round dongle on the end that plugged into the computer
FUCK THOSE CHARGERS.
I mean yeah, the entire industry was riddled with shitty chargers at that time, but these were the worst.
The most insane thing about Mac chargers is their lack of a strain relief, solely because the designers didn’t like how they look. So of course they fucking break all the time.
If it helps, you can at least use any USBC charger you want now. I love my M1 air, but have some similar ranty feelings about the older models from 10-15 years ago. I hope you at least give it a chance. I don’t think I could ever go back to Windows. It is Mac or Linux for me.
Oh I know, but it’s not about the charger at this point; it’s about the company and their stupid, stupid operating system that is dumb.
Well, since you may be forced to use it, here are some utilities to make it better: Rectangle Pro - 200% necessary. $10. Worth every penny. Cleanshot X Homebrew AltTab iTerm2 Oh My Zsh Karabiner Elements may be useful if you need macros/key bindings.
Also, this is cross platform, but giving a shout-out to Obsidian. With a couple plugins, it is a fantastic notes app that is markdown based.
There are plenty of things that are irritating in OSX, but there is a lot I like after using it for a while. Most of the irritations are gone with the above utilities. Unlike Windows, I didn’t have to spend a whole bunch of time debloating the OS and advertisements are not shoved in my face. I probably turned it off, but I don’t have a damn digital assistant shoved in my face either. Both Linux and OSX (which is Unix) have very clean interfaces. As someone with severe ADHD, an overly distracting UI will stress me out. A lot.
I do have some rather strong feelings about what they are doing with permissions in the Sequoia beta, but I also get what they are trying to achieve. iOS though is torture. I will say that for my iPad that it has improved a lot in 18, but I have 0 desire to ever have an iPhone. iPad is still ultimately hindered by the OS. The iPad Pro has an absurd amount of power, but the restrictions in iPad OS hobble what it is truly capable of.
There are plenty of things that are irritating in OSX, but there is a lot I like after using it for a while.
This is my feeling at this point as well. I can’t stand the way OS X’s DE is setup, but holy cow having an actual bash (okay
zshbut still) shell with common utilities on my computer is amazing for IT stuff and just bypasses so much faffing with powershell oddities and WSL specifics and let’s you focus far more on just doing the thingOh no…there’s no modifying of a school district’s technology allowed. That’s just not a thing, at least not that I’ve heard of in the US. Thanks for the recommendations, though, maybe it’ll help someone else.
When I was in nursing school I saw all my classmates typing on the brand new Mac’s . And I was sitting there typing on a Toshiba then I gave up the computer and just started writing because I knew ahead of time I would have to prove myself in the field more than getting an A. I got out with a B in all my classes. But somewhere there are many nurses who got D and can barely do field work. I was lucky to have a mom as a nurse. But when I go to a doctors office and a PRN is asking me questions I always ask where did you go to school and so forth. They usually get pissed but I do not care because they relay shit to the doctor. And 90 percent of the time when you go to rural doctors they just read the shit on the screen and go by that. I can say this as a traveling nurse and an ex opiod addict.
Are you okay? That’s some serious word salad.
Chrome book my kid had was sending regular traffic out to some address that belonged to a scholastic vendor. Even when the device was idle. I blocked that site at the router. Thanks pfBlockerng. A few days later he had another chrome book needing our WiFI password. That is when the chrome book got its own VLAN and SSID. The SSID name was compromised. I also tightened the screws on google workspace. They tried one more time with a another chrome book before they gave up on whatever they were after. I have no doubt they wasted some time trying to overcome it. I still treated it like a wiretap. None of my precautions stopped me from putting tape over the mic and camera.
I was a little disappointed they never inquired about it. The fact they didn’t pretty much guarantees what ever they were doing wasn’t required.
I remember spending entire days trying to break the horrible ROM protect on those pieces of garbage when they first started popping up at every school district. Google got wise fast and separated write protect into its own software only flag inside the organizational stuff for any Chromebooks linked to a domain.
I did a nicer one recently which was a samsung chromebook which involved completely disassembling the entire thing and removing the heatsink just to be able to remove a tiny ass piece of conducting electric tape to disable write protect.
Even after that I had to very carefully rewrite the shitty google bootloader with libreboot if I wanted to run literally anything else without making a google approved kpart file which would only run on google’s compiled kernel.
I remember when the news came out on the radio. The school reported to parents what their kids have been up to.
Tsk tsk. Rule number one of espionage (and hacking), never show your hand. Anything that tips off the mark and makes them suspicious that they are being watched will ruin everything.
What’s the point of espionage if you can’t even gossip
You joke but it’s a real thing. When the allies (chief among them, Alan Turing) cracked Enigma, they had to decide not to act on certain bits of information, lest they reveal that they can crack it.
Same reason the Brits said they’re so good at detecting German planes at night was because they eat lots of carrots. It was actually RADAR.
As a cybersecurity specialist even using my phone kind of give me the creeps. Anyone anytime can access your camera easily, BUT if the item was issued by a third party always assume they are spying. I’ve seen this happend in huge corporations that you would not believe do that. Also a 20 something IT support guy have access to it for sure.
Be safe, if you cant format or disable the driver for microphone and camera just turn it off when naked please
Turning it off is zero guarantee. Get a physical cover for the camera. If you can’t get a physical cover, then put electrical tape over it.
After I had turned off the webcam in my system settings, my boss twice commented on the shirt I was wearing while WFH. So then I glued two layers of duct tape over the entire upper rim of the laptop, and it never happened again. They did, however, seem inexplicably distraught when we had the next Teams call.
Yeah, drivers are easy to reinstall.
IMHO this is/was a total shit show by the school district. The student intern knew better; hope they are in charge now!
I want to but I made the mistake of buying a phone that uses the camera as the light sensor…
Dell and other Windows based OEM laptop manufactures have built in camera covers now-a-days. Just saying.
Not gonna lie… You had me there at the beginning!
More reason as to why if I ever become a parent, I’m personally setting up and monitoring my kids devices to ensure they aren’t being spies on through their cameras/webcams because a school wants to know what’s going on in their private life.
“hey honey, here’s your first computer. no parental controls, but you’re only allowed to run arch, and im doing a pen test every weekend, with an attack that will disable features I can reach for three days. good luck!”
edit: alternatively: “there are parental controls on the router and I’ll be switching them up regularly. you’re not allowed to look at porn until you’re a better hacker than your parents.”
Just don’t. So many problems solved. Potentially infinite problems solved.
Stick-on slide shutter for the camera will do the trick
I’ll admit I’m a little paranoid, so I’d still be checking other things like mic.
All right it says in the wiki that this all kicked off because a kid was getting disciplined at school for something they did in their bedroom and no details are given about that part. That alone seems really messed up
I do not know you but lets say its your job. And they gave you a laptop. Do you think you should be punished for whatever it is you do in your bedroom?
No but that’s like a major red flag type of thing. I was wondering how they get away with that to begin with
Heh, just keep the laptop shut and use external monitor kbd and mouse.
Not all kids can afford that.
Yeah, a piece of tape is much cheaper
Microphone: hello
