Honestly, the real question to me is how many innocent people were maimed, injured, or killed in this attack.
Quite a bit fewer than 0.1% of the individual detonations appear to have harmed anyone except the Hezbollah operative assigned to the pager, so this doesn’t actually appear to be a question. The attack was extremely discriminate and targeted.
but if they’re in a cafe they’re not the only ones getting hurt.
In every case in which one of these went off in a cafe, the intended target was the only one hurt.
That’s the true crime, the potentially disproportionate massacre of innocent civilians.
But that isn’t what happened. The opposite happened.
Several of the victims were children. They went off in crowds. There was no way they could control that many devices with precision when they set them off all at once like that.
Here’s an example of how targeted the strike was, despite literally going off in a crowd - nobody hurt but the intended target, no harm whatsoever beyond two feet. Doesn’t even bruise an apple
That particular pager was in a bag, against a person, pointed away from anyone or anything else. Not to mention anything of the second attack, which used much larger charges and started fires and blew out windows across Lebanon.
And anyway, a single example isn’t going to assuage anyone who has been reading reports of women and children dying from the attack.
Yes, it’s pretty shocking how people have come out in support of an Iranian-funded terrorist group that has killed women, children, and a hundred Americans
The fathers of these dead children will simply have to live with the terrible consequences of their involvement with antisemitic terror (who are we kidding, they don’t care.)
They went off in crowds.
In every such case only the agent was harmed. You’re proving how targeted the attack was.
The fathers of these dead children will simply have to live with the terrible consequences of their involvement with antisemitic terror
So the children have to pay for their father’s crimes? This isn’t really a justification, and they don’t not care, now they have a real reason for retaliation—starting the cycle of hate all over again.
And you complain about pro Israel accounts getting banned. Literally justifying the murder of children should be banable no matter what county you’re supporting. Despicable behavior that everyone now sadly expects from rabid genocide supporters.
The Hamas media? Yes, though eventually it became ridiculous for them to assert that Hamas had raped and murdered German tourists at Nova because Israel had “made” them.
Arabs attack Israel because they hate the “Yahud.”
Do you have a source stating that no bystanders were harmed?
They keep citing a tweet while others keep refuting what they’re saying with articles from BBC, NPR, and other news outlets. There’s no point in arguing with someone that can’t provide reputable sources for their claims.
Many, but not all, of the pagers and walkie-talkies that unexpectedly blew up over two days across Lebanon and in some neighboring countries were in the possession of Hezbollah fighters, functionaries or allies.
In this photo, an ambulance believed to be carrying wounded people drives down a street in a southern suburb of Beirut on September 18, 2024. The ambulance is white with a blue light on top that spans the width of the vehicle. Men stand on the sides of the street, which is lined with buildings.
Middle East crisis — explained
Another wave of blasts hits Lebanon, as Hezbollah reels from pager explosions
The group is designated as a terrorist organization by several nations, including the United States, but many of its members and supporters operate in civilian areas across Lebanon — and some of the explosions left innocent bystanders, including children, injured or dead.
They are asking for the source of your statement that less then 0.1% of the victims where valid targets. Since most have seen evidence to the exact opposite of that statement.
Oh and although I can put links to back that statement up, I will not. (Since that is the presiding fashion here apparently)
When asked for a source, you’re asked to link to a specific statement or report. If you just say who is your source without providing a link, it looks like not only do you don’t have any, but that you don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about.
It’s extremely damaging to your side, no matter where the truth is.
When asked for a source, you’re asked to link to a specific statement or report.
Sounds like a real pain in the ass, and a bad-faith way to move a great deal of burden to someone you’d like to shut up. I told you what the source was; why don’t you do your own fucking homework?
The same Hezbollah that claim this was an “act of war” and in nothing I can find give any indication of non Hezbollah casualties? Once again I can link the translated statement from Hezbollah to support this, but since you for some reason will not neither will I.
Oh and to show this is not a lack of effort by myself here is a link to the information on Vitamin D toxicity
There has been quite a lot of collateral civilian casualties, how many more people must die and how many more people must suffer under poverty in the name of the great American empire?
Do you genuinely think thats how the world work? Not Israel nor the Israeli people will ever know peace as long as Israel exists as an extension of the American Empire. If all of Israels enemies surrender then the American Empire will simply create new enemies for them to fight in their perpetual endless war.
1.3 civilians per militant also meets the definition of proportionate; during the US action in Fallujah it was 7:1 and the ICJ had no issue with that at all.
Urban combat is destructive for the people who live there; they should simply have not started a war on Oct 7th.
Quite a bit fewer than 0.1% of the individual detonations appear to have harmed anyone except the Hezbollah operative assigned to the pager, so this doesn’t actually appear to be a question. The attack was extremely discriminate and targeted.
In every case in which one of these went off in a cafe, the intended target was the only one hurt.
But that isn’t what happened. The opposite happened.
Several of the victims were children. They went off in crowds. There was no way they could control that many devices with precision when they set them off all at once like that.
https://x.com/osint613/status/1837614316335648888?s=46
Here’s an example of how targeted the strike was, despite literally going off in a crowd - nobody hurt but the intended target, no harm whatsoever beyond two feet. Doesn’t even bruise an apple
That particular pager was in a bag, against a person, pointed away from anyone or anything else. Not to mention anything of the second attack, which used much larger charges and started fires and blew out windows across Lebanon.
And anyway, a single example isn’t going to assuage anyone who has been reading reports of women and children dying from the attack.
They’re also ignoring the literal terror being experienced by civilians who witnessed people’s legs and faces being blown off in public.
That’s terrorism.
Where else would you carry a pager? You have to feel it when it vibrates.
Well, I’m sorry to hear that Lebanon’s glazers just got several months of guaranteed work, I guess, but I’m otherwise not sure why this is relevant.
What reports?
Because you were claiming the explosions were too small to “bruise and apple”
Literally any reports on the subject
ok, and how is that refuted by the physical description of an ambulance?
What the fuck are you smoking
You posted a description of an ambulance, down to the color of its lights and the presence of people standing nearby looking on.
What was the relevance of that?
The mental gymnastics people will do to defend literal state sponsored terrorism.
And don’t waste your time, I actually know what those words mean.
Yes, it’s pretty shocking how people have come out in support of an Iranian-funded terrorist group that has killed women, children, and a hundred Americans
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Try harder.
As opposed to the American-funded terrorist state that has killed women, children and a couple thousands of Palestinian civilians?
Oh look, it is time for round two: Strawman Boogaloo.
The fathers of these dead children will simply have to live with the terrible consequences of their involvement with antisemitic terror (who are we kidding, they don’t care.)
In every such case only the agent was harmed. You’re proving how targeted the attack was.
So the children have to pay for their father’s crimes? This isn’t really a justification, and they don’t not care, now they have a real reason for retaliation—starting the cycle of hate all over again.
No, they don’t have to. But they will when their fathers deliberately put them in danger.
Again, he’ll just have to live with the tragic consequences (just kidding, we know he doesn’t care.)
And you complain about pro Israel accounts getting banned. Literally justifying the murder of children should be banable no matter what county you’re supporting. Despicable behavior that everyone now sadly expects from rabid genocide supporters.
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In the days following the October attacks, the media was filled with spokespeople repeatedly delivering the line, “look what they made us do”.
The Hamas media? Yes, though eventually it became ridiculous for them to assert that Hamas had raped and murdered German tourists at Nova because Israel had “made” them.
Arabs attack Israel because they hate the “Yahud.”
The kid’s blood is still on whoever triggered the devices hands. The child didn’t do anything.
Do you have a source stating that no bystanders were harmed? I can’t find anything making that claim.
They keep citing a tweet while others keep refuting what they’re saying with articles from BBC, NPR, and other news outlets. There’s no point in arguing with someone that can’t provide reputable sources for their claims.
*Edit: typo
But they have a video of a single incident!
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First article I pulled up:
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20/g-s1-23812/lebanon-israel-exploding-pagers-hezbollah-international-law
Not to mention that Hezbollah is an actual political party in Lebanon, not just a resistance group.
Ok, and what does this refute? I haven’t claimed there to be zero civilian casualties, but it’s currently fewer than one in one thousand.
Again, I’ve posted video. Why would I believe that could harm anyone but the bearer?
At least it was somewhat targeted, unlike Gaza.
Says who?
Says Hezbollah, and all reporting from Lebanon.
Source? Not being shitty but serious
Hezbollah publicly announces their war casualties so they’re the source
I don’t know how to explain that any more clearly. If you’re still puzzled, I recommend asking a question instead of posting a single word
They are asking for the source of your statement that less then 0.1% of the victims where valid targets. Since most have seen evidence to the exact opposite of that statement.
Oh and although I can put links to back that statement up, I will not. (Since that is the presiding fashion here apparently)
Hezbollah is the source. That’s three times I’ve said so. What about that is still unclear?
When asked for a source, you’re asked to link to a specific statement or report. If you just say who is your source without providing a link, it looks like not only do you don’t have any, but that you don’t have any idea of what you’re talking about.
It’s extremely damaging to your side, no matter where the truth is.
Sounds like a real pain in the ass, and a bad-faith way to move a great deal of burden to someone you’d like to shut up. I told you what the source was; why don’t you do your own fucking homework?
The same Hezbollah that claim this was an “act of war” and in nothing I can find give any indication of non Hezbollah casualties? Once again I can link the translated statement from Hezbollah to support this, but since you for some reason will not neither will I.
Oh and to show this is not a lack of effort by myself here is a link to the information on Vitamin D toxicity
Your argumentation genuinely made me lol, thanks for that. I especially enjoyed the vitamin d article substitution
Why would Hezbollah report non-Hezbollah casualties? They’re not the government of Lebanon.
Ok, I’m sure it’s all as you say. 5 days old account that is totally not suspicious.
Defending Israel on Lenny leads to banning, it’s happened several times
lol good
All numbers to you eh?
I can’t have sympathy for murderous antisemites
Looks like murders of innocent civilians were done by semites… As it’s most often the case.
A collateral civilian death during a military action has never been considered “murder.” It can’t be, since it’s unintentional.
There has been quite a lot of collateral civilian casualties, how many more people must die and how many more people must suffer under poverty in the name of the great American empire?
None, if Israel’s enemies surrender and end the war. That’s how war works.
Do you genuinely think thats how the world work? Not Israel nor the Israeli people will ever know peace as long as Israel exists as an extension of the American Empire. If all of Israels enemies surrender then the American Empire will simply create new enemies for them to fight in their perpetual endless war.
We’ll know peace because everyone like you, everyone who won’t accept a Jewish state in the Middle East, will fight until you die. And you’ll lose.
Peace comes at the end of war.
Just completely ignore the concept of proportional response and the Principle of Proportionality.
If you’re going to pretend to be an expert on international law…
1000 militants per civilian meets every definition of proportionate
In Gaza? Yeah, no. The reply was in response to OP and my reply was to that reply. We are talking about Gaza here.
1.3 civilians per militant also meets the definition of proportionate; during the US action in Fallujah it was 7:1 and the ICJ had no issue with that at all.
Urban combat is destructive for the people who live there; they should simply have not started a war on Oct 7th.
Not murder, by your logic.
https://a.lemmy.world/lemmy.world/comment/12495954
They’ve targeted civilians, including 40 people at a US Embassy.
Both sides have.
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https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006126