A top economist has joined the growing list of China’s elite to have disappeared from public life after criticizing Xi Jinping, according to The Wall Street Journal. 

Zhu Hengpeng served as deputy director of the Institute of Economics at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) for around a decade.

CASS is a state research think tank that reports directly to China’s cabinet. Chen Daoyin, a former associate professor at Shanghai University of Political Science and Law, described it as a “body to formulate party ideology to support the leadership.”

According to the Journal, the 55-year-old disappeared shortly after remarking on China’s sluggish economy and criticizing Xi’s leadership in a private group on WeChat.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      2 months ago

      I had the most hilarious discussion with a Tankie about China a while back. They refused to accept that China is pretty much communist in name only. I pointed out that they had billionaires, privately-owned companies, a stock exchange and private property, meaning you can earn capital in China.

      The Tankie actually said something on the lines of, “If you would JUST READ MARX you would know that earning capital is a fundamental cornerstone of communism!”

      • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        The Tankie actually said something on the lines of, “If you would JUST READ MARX you would know that earning capital is a fundamental cornerstone of communism!”

        I’m a communist who doesn’t want to call China a communist country, so I don’t really agree with the person that you were talking to, but your second paragraph does show you haven’t researched communism or its history. The debate of whether societies need to undergo capitalist capital accumulation first to enter communism is about as old as communism, and the history of communism is full of examples of this. It’s the ideological reason why the Russian Socialist Democratic Labor Party split into two wings: the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks, the former believing that the Russian Empire had to undergo capitalism first in other to become communist, and the latter wanting to implement socialism to the primitive almost feudalist Russian empire. Some similar split happened more discreetly inside the Communist Party of China, with Mao implementing socialism directly to the extremely underdeveloped Chinese society, and later Deng Xiaoping opting for the more market-socialism (known now to many as "socialism with Chinese characteristics).

        So you may or may not agree whether china is communist, but from your comment it’s clear that you’re very oblivious to the historical and ideological reasons for the argument as to whether china is or isn’t a socialist country and whether they’re on the path to it. It’s good to discuss things and to have opinions, but please get informed before dismissing other people’s opinions on topics they’ve probably dedicated more time than you to studying.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          2 months ago

          So you may or may not agree whether china is communist, but from your comment it’s clear that you’re very oblivious to the historical and ideological reasons for the argument as to whether china is or isn’t a socialist country and whether they’re on the path to it.

          Weird how this path went from a communist country under Mao to a capitalist one under Xi. I guess it goes back again?

          How exactly do you achieve communism via billionaires, a stock exchange, private ownership, etc.? That’s ludicrous.

          • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            I’m not myself trying to make the assertion that china is communism or that it will achieve communism, I’m saying that what you consider “ludicrous”, has been a hotly debated topic for the past 100 years with many proponents on both sides, many of them with much more knowledge of socialism and revolutions than you or I possess.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              2 months ago

              Yes. I stand by my statement that it is ludicrous to go from no private property to private property and still call yourself communist.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                No, no, you see, people who Read Theory™ have taken a side, therefore, the position is valid. Like how the value of the holsum Khmer Rouge is debatable instead of gruesomely apparent!

              • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                And I’m saying that you have clearly not dedicated much time to thinking about or studying the issue. I’m a Marxist-Leninist, so I’m not very supportive of Dengism, but if you listen to Dengists and Mensheviks they will tell you that China still has a communist party in power (as does Vietnam and as does Laos) whereas the former USSR has a capitalist proto-fascist in government. Only time will tell who’s really right, and whether china shifts to a less market-socialism society and more towards a democratic centrally planned economy in the hands of the workers and the state.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                  2 months ago

                  Do show me where Marx said that the path to communism is eliminating private property and the ability to accrue capital and then bringing it back again.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    Don’t worry, ML theorists like Stalin take precedence over Marx, like how the New Testament takes precedence over the Old. It’s basic theology.

                  • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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                    2 months ago

                    From Wikipedia article on Mensheviks: (you’ve been talking to someone else in the comments)

                    Mensheviks came to be associated with the position that a bourgeois-democratic revolution and period of capitalism would need to occur before the conditions for a socialist revolution emerged.

                    So yes, mate, there are literal historical figures of communism debating this exact same issue that you find so laughable, it’s literally the raison d’etre of the word Bolshevism. There is no specific “Marx passage” as if it was the bible, where it says “in case some fella called Mao organizes a socialist revolution in a peasant agrarian society, pls pull it back to capitalism first, and then go to socialism once it’s capitalist, ok?” If you generally read Marx, you can see how he puts socialism as the necessary and logical end of capitalism, as something inevitable that will happen because capitalism will bring forward the material conditions for the revolution. But despite that, Marx also was a highly politically involved individual, who pushed forward momentously the socialist movement in Europe together with Engels.

                    Marx isn’t a gospel that you’re supposed to be able to chant and have undying faith for, it’s an analysis of reality that you can agree or disagree with, which explains the existence of different flavours of communism such as menshevism and bolshevism or such as Maoism and Dengism, which can be explained by the material and historical conditions leading up to those moments. Marx himself said that Marxism has to be constantly interpreting the reality of the moment and critically adapting everything. So if you’re looking for a direct quote from Marx about Dengism or Menshevism, I’m not here to provide that, I’m here to tell you that the definition you consider stupid has been hotly debated for a hundred fucking years, so maybe it’s not so stupid.

                • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I’m not saying China isn’t a country, I’m just saying it’s hotly debated whether or not it should be called west Taiwan. Only time will tell whether the CCP admits defeat and hands over control in line with their one China policy.

                  Man, making shit up is fun.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          If the Bolsheviks didn’t believe that Russia had to undergo capitalism then why did they implement, and I quote Lenin, state capitalism.

          Also there’s already a term for socialists who tolerate capitalism, it’s social democrats. Maybe the “democrat” thing is the issue MLMs have with the whole concept, not the tolerating capitalism part.

          • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            there’s already a term for socialists who tolerate capitalism, it’s social democrats

            Social Democrats don’t want a transition to communism, not even ideologically. Dengists and Mensheviks do, at least ideologically. Whether you believe that or not is a different debate, but equating socialdemocrats with mensheviks is dumb, not a dunk.

            why did they implement, and I quote Lenin, state capitalism

            Look, I’m not here to argue for Marxism-Leninism against you because you’re obviously trying to be smug, not trying to have a civilized discussion. If you actually want some good (in my opinion) analysis of actually-existing socialism, there are plenty of Michael Parenti videos online, or you can pick up his book “Blackshirts and Reds”. But I suspect you’re just here to punch to those communists that are further left than you are. If you do want to have this discussion let me know.

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
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              Social Democrats don’t want a transition to communism, not even ideologically.

              Last I checked the SPD’s party program still speaks of socialism.

              But I suspect you’re just here to punch to those communists that are further left than you are.

              I’m an Anarchist. Council Communists are generally to the right of me, quite adjacent but not quite there, Tankies somehow managed to seat themselves at the very other side of the plenum.

              • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                Last I checked the SPD’s party program still speaks of socialism

                I’m sure the SPD party program talks about the end of capitalism /s

                Again, not here to engage with smug factionalists. Have a good day

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  I’m not a factionalist you’re the factionalist. Just agree with me and be done with it!

      • JustARaccoon@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I mean you can still have private property under communism, it’s the capital making property that’s more owned by the workers themselves, but you can still own things under communism.

        Similarly, you can earn capital under communism too, it’s just that the tools for earning said capital aren’t owned by corporations under corporations under CEOs under the 1%. It’s not a cornerstone for sure, but it’s not like communism is anti capital and growth and owning things

          • JustARaccoon@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Read a bit ahead if you may:

            Communism deprives no man of the power to appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of others by means of such appropriations.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              2 months ago

              Okay? That doesn’t change the summary about private property, which is a thing in China. It wasn’t under Mao, it is now.

            • Fox@pawb.social
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              2 months ago

              And then the adherents fought over the means and meaning, and everybody else threw their hands up

              • JustARaccoon@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Tbh Marx is intentionally questioning definitions and such so it makes sense, simplifying it down to terms we use isn’t very productive in that sense, because what he argues for is the abolishing of “private property” as we know it, but without removing the fruits of labour from its people, so if you and your mates worked for your house you can have it, until the moment you start making a business out of it then it’s less ok.

    • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I’ll have you know that America did some bad stuff so that justifies literally any amount of authoritarianism from China.

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          They were being sarcastic and facetious. Tankies use a similar argument everytime somebody speaks ill of China.

          Examples:


          “TikTok is a military campaign proven to spy on messages and photos and send massive amounts of data to Chinese headquarters.”

          “OH OKAY but its fine when FaceBook and Google hand over info to the USA, is that it?”


          “Chinese hostile takeovers of Hong Kong, Tibet, and soon potential war with Taiwan and Philippines is worrying. World War 3 could be upon us.”

          “BuT nAtO anD IsrAeL eXiST!”

      • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        America doing ‘bad stuff’ is a comical understatement. Sure, the genocide of native Americans and chattel slavery is “bad”, but it is probably worse than general authoritarian actions. You seem to have them the other way around, or at least imply that.

        Both suck. Both have superiority complexes. I have to deal with American superiority complexes, so that paints me as “pro China”.

        I’m simply pro unity.

        • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          You seem to grasp and miss the point at the same time.

          When tankies are faced with terrible shit their government is currently doing, they bring up terrible stuff America did a hundred years ago as if that somehow justifies it. Yes, both things bad, but the second thing has zero bearing in relation to an article about China literally disappearing dissidents.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Reminds me of the Clinton Death List, where anyone tangential to Bill and Hilary who had a bad turn was allegedly victimized to cover up an even more insidious crime.