Mail sorter for a company I worked for uses Windows 3.1.
My parents ancient HP from 1997, I sold the motherboard with popped capacitors for $250. I informed the buyer of the condition and he said he didn’t care, he’d fix it, but they needed it for some legacy hardware their company functioned on.
😂 🤣
Similarly, my Dad ran his medical office on Win98 until he died (2011).
Of course, he had no support for OS or the medical office software other than himself (and me).
Had a supplier of inexpensive old machines/parts.
All cause he refused to pay the $5k required to upgrade the medical office software that ran on those machines. 🤷♂️
My dad’s company still runs software from 2002 for recording sales and sending bills. Runs fine on Windows 10 surprisingly
I was tearing out ancient infrastructure for a new office and my eye kept going to a rectangular square box on the wall. Finally realized it was a PC! The cause of death was clear, PSU fan died, killed itself from heat. It was a form factor I had never seen, but standard nonetheless. It was running an answering machine system in DOS, still worked! Such a rare machine I’ve only found a single reference on the web and a single video about it. 1999, 486XS (I know, would kill for a DX, it’s soldered on), upgraded from 2x 2MB SIMMs to a whopping 2x 64MB SIMMs. Imagine what that would have cost in the day!
LONG story, but I got it running Windows 95b. 3.1 was just too much challenge to get it networked and happy. Much pain was removed when I got a USB floppy emulator. Can’t do jack without a floppy! Broke the network card drivers, need to start over. Had it running Doom with a legit SoundBlaster card and could RDP into over the network.
It was an amazing journey getting it all together and updated. Most of that knowledge is gone from the internet, and I sure don’t remember all the tricks. Going to be my first token ring machine! LOL, had to get parts from Romania and trash cans.
I binge people doing this type of thing on YouTube lol. I miss working in the industry
If you ever see yourself in the need of information about the DOS era again, Vogons is the place to go IMHO.
But it’s all in poetry, unfortunately.
Man, remember when people used to break into offices to steal the RAM?
My work experience in around 1995 was spent at a local computer firm.
At one point a group of men in balaclavas showed up, the boss stopped playing Doom long enough to cover the security camera and hand over a bunch of crumpled banknotes, and I was handed this pile of SIMMs to put in a test rig to make sure they were OK to sell.
I also had to straighten the pins on used/stolen 486 CPUs, and pretty sure at one point was taken to break into a warehouse. There was certainly nobody else in the whole building, and we loaded the van with a bunch of cheap looking boxes before taking them back to HQ.
The boss was also banging a girl in my class, which in later years I learned makes him a paedo. Times sure were simpler in 1995.
The cause of death was clear, PSU fan died, killed itself from heat.
PSU: “Release…me…from this mockery called life”
Stuck or preferred choice?
Trapped using software they needed to buy once, vs rent?
Yes, stuck. There are enourmous problems with different institutions having to use ancient PCs because the software doesn’t work on modern ones, be they electron microscopes, hospitals or industrial machinery, causing e.g. enourmous security issues. This is one of the most important reasons why FOSS and why making FOSS software mandatory in government contracts is so important.
Also how come people can’t read the fucking article before commenting?
I’m a bit depressed that I finally need to upgrade my last windows 7 machine. It looks like it’s 10 for me now :-(
https://www.fedoraproject.org/ https://linuxmint.com/ https://archlinux.org/ https://www.debian.org/ https://elementary.io/ https://system76.com/pop/
There are many safe open source options. If you need help there are ample resources available. If you want to you can also DM me.
Yeah, I’m well aware. But how much of my time would it take to get a bunch of windows software running smoothly on Linux?
I do appreciate the offer of personal help, that’s an extremely generous offer to an internet stranger. Sincerely, thank you!
Depends on what software. Anything that happens in the browser works. A lot of other software can be run using Wine. There is some software which still has problems especially when using USB ports as serial ports etc. and a lot of subpar software (un)fortunately just doesn’t work because of it being badly programmed.
Check if there’s alternatives to what you use in Windows, or if there’s a Linux version. Decide if you need to use the windows program, or if the Linux equivalent will work. There may be a learning curve to using a different program, but I haven’t yet really found anything that doesn’t have an equivalent that isn’t a program paired with hardware that will only work with each other.
At my old workplace, there was numerous XP machines still going. They were running old machine equipment, and basically served as a controller for the entire machine.
As it turns out, it was cheaper to keep these XP stations, instead of buying a completely new Hydrolic press, or whatever it was running, which cost several hundred of thousands of dollars.
One day one of these computers stopped working, and we immediately tried to get the software to work on a brand new W10 replacement. Took us a week of drivers hell, until we eventually went to the basement, found an exact replica, and swapped the HDD over.
The company, making these heavy machineries, went bankrupt in the early 2000s, and there was literally no way of getting the software to run on anything besides that original box.
I’d like a law that software / hardware companies who file for bankruptcies must release the source / files for their tech to an open source repository.
That idea often comes up in these discussions and I’ve never really had an argument against. Best I got is that parts of that software may have moved to more modern stuff that was purchased by another company. But that’s a damned thin excuse not to implement this.
If you are a big company there are often ESCROW agreements for things like this. I have encountered the “data dumps” from time to time and whilst it’s “better” it’s not ideal. Half finished documentarian, virtual machines of mis-configured OS installs… it’s almost as if it was just a straight copy of the development environment as it was just as they made the final version of the software…
But it’s better than nothing.
Main issue I can see with this forcing open source would be libraries and frameworks licensed from others who would likely still be in business and wouldn’t agree to those parts becoming open sourced. See also WinAMP https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/16/opensourcing_of_winamp_goes_badly/
Yup. Take backups, have spares, and keep it off the Internet and it’ll work just fine.
Pro tip, you can get IDE to CF adapters if you want to put an SSD in those old machines to really see them fly. Just be aware that they don’t have nearly as good write durability as a real SSD, so keep write heavy operations on the HDD.
You can get industrial grade CF cards that use SLC memory. They have much better write endurance than normal CF cards.
There’s still things like that on my workplace today. I think there’s some older, rarely used CNC with Win98 on the controller. We just keep spares around when they break, but that’s cheaper than replacing the whole machinery. Also there’s some XP stations running software for an industrial machine which would cost quarter of a million to replace. Some of those need access to network drives and such but they live in a strictly isolated VLAN.
And, as far as I’ve told at least, there was no option at any point to upgrade just the computers on those things. It’s always the whole assembly line or whatever they’re connected to. There’s not many companies willing to throw hundreds of thousands every 3-5 years to replace perfectly working equipment.
there’s some older, rarely used CNC
Me over here with a dirty mind 100% positive that I’m not using “CNC” the same way you are. I don’t know what your way means, but my way is more fun.
CNC—computer numerical control, where a computer makes the cutty/smushy/printy parts move through meatspace.
CNC—computer numerical control, where a computer makes the cutty/smushy/printy parts move through meatspace.
It’s funny, because this scenario actually happened in our CNC hall.
The guys over there were working with SolidWorks and Mastercam. I never really got too involved with their work, other than installing the software remotely for them.
It could very well have been a CNC machine that this procedure was about. I just know that they had all kinds of equipment in there, along with a hydrolic press, which peaked my interest the most because of a certain Finnish youtuber haha.
I set up a 32 bit Windows 7 VM so my dad could keep using his old drawing program that was built for Windows 3.11.
It was the last version of Windows to support 3.11 compabillity.
Works well.
Just a note: Windows software for controlling hardware is highly likely to assume a)direct access to the hardware (sometimes mediated thorough ancient APIs and assuming the existence of defunct expansion slots) and b) assume meatspace time can be counted using OS timing ticks (which get stretched out as modern VMs timeshare with other processes underneath the virtulized hardware). It is awfully tough to replace them sometimes.
Yeah, I suspect you gotta do something similar to what McLaren did when the special mid 90s computer they used for the F1 got too hard to replace as they broke, they built a new computer interface that was compatible with modern computers and allowed them to interface with the car
lol what drawing program?
Macrografx Designer 3.1:
Yeah, and as long as these things never touch the internet, there really isn’t an issue.
There are third parties that create new software for old industrial machines for this exact reason.
At one of my old works we had a SMT machine allegedly built in 2012 which was running on XP. Worked flawlessly 🤷
“Stuck”
Imagine being stuck using something that works for 30 years.
Right? If it still works then it still works.
If the article was talking about anything other than tech/software, we’d be praising its longevity.
I mean, you could read the article. Many users are unhappy with the performance or reliability.
And a lot of people are actually stuck because the Windows XP/7 machine is attached to industrial equipment that costs an unbelievable amount of money or is just impossible to replace.
It really depends what its used for.
Anything that is public facing would never work without constant maintenance and upgrades, be it a computer OS or some complex piece of hardware.
Yup, also especially for industrial applications, requirements and needs absolutely can change, and that means having to work around the equipment. I have seen firsthand the experience of trying to get new features into ancient applications. (Made worse by the fact that we took on support for it because the original company which had created the program had gone under).
I’m disturbed that an elevator is running a desktop OS. How did this happen? Did they never hear of microcontrollers?
My assumption would be that the display is not related to operating the elevator, but rather displaying information about businesses on the respective floors. I’ve seen those a fair few times, and since they run on isolated networks or even fully local, there’s little risk.
Frighteningly, i worked as an admin at a hospitality wifi business that ran a windows box for dhcp duty. I would have to go o site, in the middle of the night, down to the basement of this hotel, and reboot the damn thing. It would die almost every week. Replaced with a linux server and never heard from them again.
I could tell you the stories of W95 & XP that runs the medical world…
I know it’s not exactly the point of the article but for a lot of things, I reckon a good amount of ‘innovation’ was pretty pointless. I personally don’t think I ever needed anything that Office 2003 can’t do… (Of course I don’t use any MS office to begin with but you get the point)
=Let(), Lambda and Regex were good additions to Excel imo
Whoa I had no idea of those functions. I just checked the documentation and I already know a hundred places I could use those.
Everything beyond the Dewey decimal system is/was pretty unnecessary, imo. We created a way to organize and “quickly” locate information stored in a physical format.
The near complete lack of manual labor has had many long reaching effects on society.
I type this on my brand new flagship phone…
I’ve been trying tk get family to switch to Linux, but some are irrationally attached to MS Word. I wonder if Office 2003 will run in Wine?
I’ve had success with Office 2010 under Wine.
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=18487
I’ve heard LibreOffice has settings that make it look like Word
Ancient industrial machines use ancient windows computers. This has been known forever. There’s a whole niche industry of very expensive ram and hard drives and other components keeping this industry going
Yeah man. Details are going to be fuzzy here, but I think it was only in recent memory where Boeing upgraded the planes in Japan to no longer need floppy disks.
Yes i still use floppy disks regularly for my cnc plasma table
Good for them. If it works, it works. I wouldn’t connect it to the internet though.
I run a computer on Win7 at work, because it needs some important legacy software. It can’t be containered because it has a nasty licence manager.
And my oscilloscope runs on Win98.
People keep saying to keep these XP machines off the internet. I seriously doubt there’s much threat, especially for even older OS’s like 98 and 95. It’s the very devil just trying to browse with them, nothing much out there is going to be able to attack them. Security through obscurity indeed!
In any case, we’re no longer in the Wild West days when people had machines hooked directly to the internet and a firewall was a third-party addon. LOL, ZoneAlarm anyone!
We all have a basic firewall built into our routers so unless you deliberately expose services you’re fairly bulletproof to scanners. I remember scanning for Win2000 machines in blocks of IPs, long after it was defunct. Plenty were out there!
You are forgetting targeted attacks. A blind attack would pretty much not have much of an effect indeed, however if the attacker knows the machine, then it’s easy for the attackers to exploit these vulnerability if left “out in the open”, and cause havoc, possibly create a lot of damages or leech informations pumped into those machines via old Windows installations.
For a business sure.
You wanna hack my dnd campaign and some pictures of my cock? Sure whatever dude. All financial and important shit goes through my phone anyway and that’s likely to be hacked from the institutions I use.
They’ll infect it and make it part of their DDoS bot swarm.
While that is awful and sucks. Again, probably won’t really target me
If China or America use my machine as a member of their DDoS bot swarm likely I probably couldn’t even fight back as much as I’d like. Either one of those countries could have backdoor bullshit into any system you think of.
If it is a nefarious third party maybe I want them to use my computer to attack the financial system of these capitalist regimes or to harm the infrastructure of an oppressive government.
Again, have my cock and dnd campaign. If my system runs slow and annoys me guess I’ll deal with it. They already will get my information from the millions of sources compiling and collecting it.
I dunno doesn’t really make me shake in my boots
This is short-sighted. It also reeks of “Fuck you, I got mine!” I know that’s not your intention. I just think you haven’t thought super hard about it. I was the same with privacy concerns.
So let me throw some edge cases at you.
You remember the network time protocol vulnerability that was used to power botnets for a little bit? Well, until everyone upgraded their shit, service providers had to just block IP ranges of compromised machines until enough machines in that block stopped DDoS’ing them.
So what happens when some script kiddy pays for time on the botnet, which includes your box, to smash Wizards while you’re trying to look things up? Or what if someone uses your box as a jump box to go attack some giant corporation, and shit gets traced back to you? Or what if someone decides you’re the unlucky one where their whole goal is to dominate your entire home network, and they get your phone when it’s on your home wifi?
I’d still be using Windows 7 if I could.
I mean, you can if you want to
It’s not safe and all that stuff.
Why do people keep repeating this tired propaganda? What exactly do you think will happen?
No1 rule in IT security: Keep shit updated.
Now I haven’t used windows other than managed work stuff for a decade but I would assume that the problem with the already existing nightmare of windows would be a lot worse if completely void of bugfixes.
But if you have an insight in to an entire field where the experts disagree on the subject I’m very keen on hearing it.
Very simple: I’m one user.
Do explain. How is that relevant to not getting bugfixes for your OS?
Where did I say not to get bugfixes for my OS, which is Windows 7?
I would bet there are still a few old pieces of industrial machinery around that I duct taped together by imaging an ancient PC and transferring it to a Virtual Box VM.
There are many, many machines out there running 95 and even earlier versions. The issue is that a machine from 30 years ago is almost always still using the software that came with the machine… 30 years ago.
Even if the OS has received security patches, which isn’t even assured, the company may either no longer be in business, or charge for new OS drivers/specialized software.
In many cases, your options are literally to replace an entire machine worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, or deal with the networking nightmare that is “keep this on the network, but not on the network.”
I use a Windows XP machine for work nearly every day. And yeah, it’s because it runs some of the most expensive equipment in the company.
BART wrote a PDP8 cross assembler in the late 90s, that they still use today.
https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/plucky/man1/palbart.1.html
I 4 years ago I remotely reinstalled Wonderware and necessary drivers on a Windows NT3.51 HMI controlling a mango line in Africa (I don’t remember exactly, maybe Burkina?). Not fun, there wasn’t much documentation left.
One year later I had to do it again.
there’s a word for those people: awesome
windows xp was peak; running anything before xp is legendary
I ran Linux 1994ish. Amiga OS before. Amstrad CPC 464 before. A friend ran Sinclair ZX-80, that was the first system I had access to.
aside from radio shack and texas instruments that i used at camp, i think i was sadly too young to do anything but windows 3.1 :( our first computer was a tandy sensation in the early 90s and i didn’t really play with linux until maybe the mid 2000s
except for playing with apple IIe and radio shack computers through school and camp, that is.
TRS-80 and TI 99/4A presumably?
i’m pretttyyyyy sure this one is the one we had at camp :)
What luxury, it came with floppy drives!
Idk, it was horrendously insecure, would freeze a lot, and missing creature comforts like window tiling.
Tbh I think you’re letting nostalgia blind you to XP’s flaws a little.
If they kept refining Win7 it would’ve been great.
Idk, it was horrendously insecure, would freeze a lot, and missing creature comforts like window tiling.
It was significantly more secure than it’s DOS-based predecessor of the time, Windows ME (that’s a whole other rabbit hole; if you wanna talk insecure and buggy as fuck - look no further). That’s what people don’t realize, they look at the past through a modern lens. You gotta look at it from the time it was released. There’s a reason mainstream consumer-focused Windows editions dropped DOS and moved to the NT kernel. XP was the first real consumer version of Windows based on
XPNT.If they kept refining Win7 it would’ve been great.
They did, it was called “Windows 8” and nobody liked it.
But before ME there was Windows 2000, with its particularly gorgeous spin of the classical design, and other than appearance - being kinda same as XP, but faster.
XP was the first real consuner version of Windows based on XP.
On NT you mean, and no, W2K was a consumer system.
XP was the first real consuner version of Windows based on XP.
On NT you mean
Whoops! Yes, NT.
But before ME there was Windows 2000, with its particularly gorgeous spin of the classical design, and other than appearance - being kinda same as XP, but faster.
[…]
and no, W2K was a consumer system.
W2K was most definitely not built with consumers in mind; the base edition was “Professional” and was meant to be a workstation OS. It was a bit of an oddball in that a not-insignificant amount of power users preferred it at home over 98/Me - but it was a business-oriented system first and foremost. XP added a lot of features over 2000, including more consumer-oriented tools and applications. That’s why I specified XP as “the first real consumer version”.
Personal anecdote: When I was in jr high, the “family PC” was a Toshiba laptop loaded with W2K, and compared to the W98 system we had before, 2000 was certainly not meant for “regular” home users. That’s what Me was supposed to be, but we all know how that went… IMO, I’m almost certain that the downfall of Me, paired with W2K being as good as it was at the time, was part of the driving force for MS to base future consumer versions on the NT kernel.
But this article is talking about people running Windows 7 today, so comparing current actions through a modern lens is entirely valid
I’m not looking at it through a modern lense. It was very insecure at the time, too. I worked in a PC repair shop and at the time that business was a money printer in terms of getting rid of endless malware.
Later versions of windows cleared up the horrendous security to such an extent that the shop was no longer economically viable, and we had to close.
XP was not the first consumer version based on NT, I don’t know why you think that.
Although yes, the DOS versions were even worse. Well, in theory anyway. In practice not, since most people at that time didn’t have PCs that old connected to the internet.
They did, it was called “Windows 8” and nobody liked it.
I would not consider Win8 a “refinement” of Win7 lol, they changed the entire UX, added an app store they tried to force people into, created a new executable format, etc.
Windows 8 is basically the polar opposite of a “refinement” release!
I’m visiting my parents in my home country after many years of not being there. I’m hoping my dad’s old pentium 2 laptop is still around.
