My community is a hub of Arab and Muslim America. Kamala Harris’s stance on the Middle East has left us hurt and angry, says community organiser Mona Mawari

These are people who would have never, ever voted for Trump, but billions of dollars are being spent by the Democrats to slaughter our loved ones and our families. Israel has been decimating south Lebanon, where many of our relatives live, and now this administration is deploying US troops to the Middle East. Not exactly a winning strategy if they actually want our votes.

Some people think of a Trump vote as a protest vote. I have heard arguments being made along the lines of “Trump is not the person who is committing the genocide right now” or “Well, we didn’t have any wars under Trump”. I personally disagree with this, and consider Trump to be a fascist and fearmonger who deeply traumatised our communities during his presidency. He was a hateful leader who slammed the door on refugees by implementing a Muslim ban. While he didn’t start any wars, he did escalate existing wars in the Middle East and vetoed a series of bipartisan bills that aimed at prohibiting arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

  • Boddhisatva@lemmy.world
    38·
    14 days ago

    This is some weapons grade stupidity. Virtually all the pols in DC are responsible for spending to support Israel. To try and suggest that it’s only the dems doing it is disingenuous at best. And whatever you think Harris will do when it comes to Israel, Trump is guaranteed to do far, far worse.

    Trump to Israel: “You have to finish up your war. You have to finish it up. You’ve got to get it done,”

    • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
      2·
      14 days ago

      This is some weapons grade stupidity

      Maybe the ‘weapons grade stupidity’ is thinking that giving weapons to a country that uses them to kill innocent people will make friends with the families of those people.

      Actions have consequences. That’s what karma is.

      • Lauchs@lemmy.world
        19·
        14 days ago

        And the consequence for putting trump in power is going to be many more dead innocents.

        I don’t know if I’d call that karma so much as the consequence of acting like a petulant child on real world issues.

        Admittedly, if you don’t actually care about the innocents in the middle East and are just another privileged first worlder who really only cares about themselves, these aren’t actually consequences. But for those who will die, they are very real consequences.

          • Lauchs@lemmy.world
            10·
            14 days ago

            Are you claiming I’m not compassionate because I habe an understanding of objective reality and I should be more sympathetic to silly people?

            Or do you really somehow believe trump, who has encouraged Israel to go harder and accused Dems of being soft on Hamas, would somehow be better for the innocents in the Middle East?

    • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
      2·
      14 days ago

      And whatever you think Harris will do when it comes to Israel, Trump is guaranteed to do far, far worse.

      I have Ukrainian heritage, although I am a third-generation immigrant elsewhere. I have to ask myself, would I be able to grasp this point if I lived in a country where both parties funded Russia to invade Ukraine? I probably wouldn’t, because people are dead, and my family is still being killed.

      Tell me: what is worse than that?

      • Boddhisatva@lemmy.world
        21·
        14 days ago

        Voting for someone who will actively help kill your relatives, and then likely try to deport you personally from this country, would be worse.

        • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
          2·
          14 days ago

          Is it easy to think logically while the country you live in will not do anything other than fund the death of your family?

          Also, while I think logically, you have clearly explained that you cannot vote for an American party without supporting “Voting for someone who will actively help kill your relatives…”, because “Virtually all the pols in DC are responsible for spending to support Israel”.

          I think I can understand a bunch of Muslim immigrants, disliked by many for one or both of those features, feeling unable to make a good choice when given a choice that is - as you have said - no choice. Add ongoing grief and I, for one, can find it within me to extend compassion to them. You are named Boddhisatva, so would suspect you know the teachings of Lord Buddha, also.

        • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
          3·
          14 days ago

          In this situation, you don’t want Trump to be elected.

          I don’t want my family to be dead, but they are already dying.

          Forgive me but, in that case, I would very likely think you were being ignorant.

          • scarabine@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
            11·
            14 days ago

            Unfortunately the election isn’t about whether or not the USA stops supporting Israel. There is no vote for that.

            It’s about whether or not you want USA to be doing what it’s doing right now under control of people who will dialog with you about it (Democrats) vs. people who are just waiting for a chance to annihilate you entirely so you’ll shut up and they can get more real estate (Republicans).

            • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
              2·
              14 days ago

              I don’t think you’re very good at reading, or diagnosing nationality.

              Killing innocent people is wrong and upsets people. Reacting to that with “you’re being silly” or “you’re a hostile actor trying to destabilise the world” comes across as extremely obtuse.

          • treefrog@lemm.ee
            9·
            14 days ago

            Trump has made it clear the gaza war will worsen with him in office.

            So, I think you’re being disingenuous. Especially considering the direct quote was in the parent comment we’re all replying too.

            • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
              2·
              14 days ago

              So, I think you’re being disingenuous.

              I’m not convinced that I’m being disingenuous in saying that it is hard to support a party when it condones the killing of one’s family.

              • reddwarf@feddit.nl
                4·
                14 days ago

                hard to support a party when it condones the killing of one’s family.

                So I suppose you would vote neither party?
                Party A is not doing enough to stop the killing and ‘condones’ (I disagree with that word and characterization) Party B has messaged that the killing isn’t going fast and hard enough and will give wider support to the killing once elected

                Party B also wants to deport people of a certain heritage (multiple groups, not just the one) and perhaps you fall into that bracket? I really hope not.

                • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
                  2·
                  14 days ago

                  If I lived in a country where both main parties supported Russia to invade Ukraine, I would not want to vote for either, no.

                  I would support the party which would reduce that support, or even oppose Russia.

      • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
        2·
        14 days ago

        Let us imagine I am being told that I can vote for Party A, which will hasten to support the hostile government of another country to kill my family in (let’s say) 12 months. Or I can vote for Party B, which will put the breaks on so that it happens in 24 months, and they will also keep saying how unacceptable that is.

        Is that really a choice?

          • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
            2·
            14 days ago

            I’m sure it would be to someone who doesn’t care that innocent people are being killed, because that someone is not related to them.

        • treefrog@lemm.ee
          7·
          14 days ago

          I hear you on feeling like the lesser of two wrongs isn’t a choice.

          But, if you had a choice between the two. Would you prefer to poke out an eye or burn a finger?

          Both options being bad doesn’t mean they’re equally bad. And sometimes we really do have to choose between the better of two bad options.

          That’s just life.

            • treefrog@lemm.ee
              2·
              13 days ago

              It’s a trolley problem. Do you vote harris and kill X people? Or vote trump and kill X+X people?

              The trolley will kill people either way. Do you let it lean left and kill some people? Or lean right and kill many more?

              Better analogy?

                • treefrog@lemm.ee
                  2·
                  13 days ago

                  Then why did you post this thread?

                  Because like it or not the current political system in the US is a trolley problem. It’s a very binary do we go this way or do we go that way?

                  If you have no interest in the problem, then don’t pay attention to US politics and don’t make posts about it.

  • Kethal@lemmy.world
    11·
    14 days ago

    I don’t at all understand what the point is here. Do you think that Trumo will support Gazans? Trump has said he would wholeheartedly take Israel’s side and provide more support than the current administration. There isn’t a choice between what you have and what you want. It’s between what you have and something worse than what you have.

    Trump winning doesn’t force Democrats to support Gazans. It forces them to side with Israel in order to appeal to the electorate.

    • Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPEnglish
      3·
      14 days ago

      There isn’t a choice

      Agreed, and that makes people not know how to act, because there is no reasonable way to act.

      Maybe killing innocent people is wrong, and people shouldn’t do that.

      • Kethal@lemmy.world
        4·
        14 days ago

        People who deliberately misquote people are not worth talking with. There is a choice and if you think pretending like there isn’t one gets you somewhere, prepare for a very different approach to this war when Trump takes office.