newer
lead acid
Uh, wtf?
The headline means newly manufactured e-bikes with lead acid batteries.
That doesn’t explain why the new bikes have older technology than the bikes they’re urging people to trade in.
It’s in the article:
Over the last decade or so, China has seen a shift from older AGM batteries, which are heavy and bulky, toward lighter and longer-lasting lithium-ion batteries.
However, safety concerns regarding rare yet dangerous lithium-ion battery fires have put a pause on that proliferation. The government instituted new safety standards for lithium-ion batteries in e-bikes last year, but there’s also been a major pushback toward AGM batteries for the domestic market.
Do you know that LiFePO4 cells are the same price (in Europe), longer-lasting, lighter and safer than traction lead-acid ones? They pretty much have no disadvantages to lead-acid, and the need of a BMS (and heater if needing to charge below freezing or run below -4 °F/-20 °C) is no problem since those are a fraction of the cells’ price. The only reason I see behind this move would be acute lithium shortage in China.
From what I can tell, lead acid batteries in Europe have taxes applied to them to pay for recycling. Other places don’t have these taxes so lead acid batteries are very cheap there.
Having said that, I watched a video of a guy in Bangladesh recycling lead acid batteries by hand just using simple tools and a pot to melt the lead over a wood fire and a simple mold to pour the lead plates.
It’s a very basic, easy thing to do. It’s just labour intensive so it ends up very expensive if you have to pay Europeans to do it.
Lead acid is LITERALLY the oldest known rechargeable battery type so I am not surprised you can make them with ancient tools if you’re also OK with 19th century “safety standards”.
The process is simple and simple enough to do safely with automatic equipment without exposing workers directly to the lead. However Europe seems intent on phasing out lead acid batteries completely via suppression of demand with taxes.
Lead acid batteries truly are an example of an old and highly reliable technology with some tradeoffs. Yes, everyone knows lead is toxic, however modern battery designs are very well sealed so they never leak. The other tradeoff is that lead is very heavy such that lead acid batteries are too heavy for electric car use. However this last tradeoff doesn’t matter so much for stationary (such as a household) or low power (such as a motorcycle or ebike) use. In fact I would go so far as to argue that lead acid batteries are safer than lithium for some uses due to the latter’s fire risks.
Lithium batteries are not simple to recycle. They’re full of plastic which is wrapped in many fine layers like a roll of cling-film that’s been baked together. To recycle they probably have to be burned and the lithium re-smelted from them and then remanufactured in an energy and materials-intensive process.
Same in the US too. LiFEPO4 storage batteries are available cheaper than lead-acid for equal or even higher capacity.
Until the trumptard tariffs wreck our markets at least
Because new items can still use old technologies if it makes more sense to do so?
A 2025 vehicle with a manual radio sold for $30,000 might still sell better than a 2020 vehicle with a touchscreen dash for $25,000
The article provides a decent explanation.
Yeah, they should have just gone to the frontier of technology with carbon-air cells. It’s weird, right? I thought China was a first mover in tech.
No, they copy first movers.
No, they copy first movers.
the joked passed so far over the head of sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works that most observers thought it was an aeolian dust particle trapped in the outmost jetstream
I thought they would have been pushing for sodium ion batteries instead. Lead acid batteries are a bad choice for anything that needs to be cycled frequently.
Last part of the article basically says sodium ion batteries are where they’re going next.
They’re a also bad choice for e-bikes because they’re heavy as hell. I had an e-bike a while back that had two lead acid batteries, and they were about 15 lbs each. The added weight made it almost impossible to go uphill with the motor, so you’d have to pedal a much heavier bike up hills. Not a good experience at all.
Traded-in e-bikes will be sent for dismantling and recycling
Maybe they need the batteries for something else…
I mean there are quite many fires in China started by those e-bikes but I thought it was because of bad quality.
There are chemistries that are less volatile But they’re less energy dense as well.
The biggest problem I see on most of the Chinese stuff is a lack of safety in the battery packs. They’re just mass-producing cells and shoving them together, It wouldn’t be very expensive to put a small battery management system on every cell. Watch each cell for voltage and temperature. Have them shut down when they’re out of safety margins
LiFePO4 is still superior to traction lead-acid in pretty much every way: energy density, safety, time and cycle life, internal resistance… Yes, they need a BMS but those are very cheap and lots of batteries have them built-in. In fact, I was unable to find 4-cell packs without a BMS inside so I could put two of them in series and balance the 8S cells with each other using an active BMS of my choice, and ended up ordering individual cells and screwing them together.
Also worth mentioning LiFePO4 is like half the weight of lead acid and it’s far less susceptible to voltage sag under load. The only area I think LiFePO4 runs into challenges is the inability to charge below freezing. Lead acid is a real workhorse when it comes to the extremes.
The article also mentions sodium ion batteries as an alternative. Can’t wait to see how they perform in real life.
IIRC there is already an e-scooter you can buy that has a sodium ion battery. From a chinese company (ofc) that I forget the name of. It touts fast charging and basically performs just fin down to -20C.
48 V and a capacity of 24 Ah
400 W power and a 25 km/h top speed.
They’re from $450 to $590, so amazingly priced.
Fun fact: it would not be classified as a e-bike nor a moped in Estonia because it’s less than 1000w and max speed is no more than 25 km/h, but an mini-moped, which doesn’t need a license to drive, but you have to be older than 16 and need to wear at least a bicycle helmet.
This is big news. Why isn’t everyone already talking about SIBs? Also, the 145 Wh/kg sits neatly between LFP and NMC. As long as the other properties are reasonable, it should stand a chance against NMC.
Estonia
Bestonia
If you need to charge LiFePO4 batteries below freezing, you can add a heater to the pack. There are even some batteries available now with built in heaters that come on automatically below freezing.
Less than half in my experience. I bought two 100ah 12v lifepos and they are under 30 lbs. 23lbs I believe. I have a lead acid deep cycle of the same power and it’s like 80-90.
Ehh they need to do sodium batteries
Damn I’d have atleast waited until sodium ion was built out
