- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
(not my OC nor my OP, just helping spread the message around:-)
You must log in or register to comment.
its to late, its over, to prevent catastrophe.
its not to late to ensure we have a minimal catastrophe instead of a maximal catastrophe.
NOT Uplifting
I strongly believe that there’s a regression of global society that will prevent humanity from surviving the next k/t level impact. I weakly believe that the climate catastrophe that we are headed toward currently will cause such a regression. I weakly believe that if we don’t take global action in the next 4-5 years, we will be unable to avoid a catastrophe of that scale.
I don’t think the current global leadership can be convinced through lobbying. Non-violent opportunities to replace the global leadership are dwindling. When/if only violent means remain, I will simply enjoy what wealth I have until I am extinguished by the Glorious Revolution as the Bourgeoisie scum I will have become.
Well, global meat consumption per Capita is going down YOY so something is working.
Methane gas is basically our greatest enemy at this point
There’s an interesting graph that someone posted in https://aussie.zone/comment/14827931, but I am no expert so I have no idea personally, just sharing that, which seems to suggest that the highest areas are residential energy and road transportation. Whether that in turn traces to Methane I have no idea:-).
I mean from the cow farts but yeah. If we can do that one at the same time as carbon much better
The nice thing is that if we could work on either, then we could work on both at the same time. Caveat: we cannot work on either, for the most part, bc people are selfish and short-sighted:-(.
A bit sad how pessimistic everyone is. Renewables are currently becoming the most economic way to produce electricity and even states that do not care about the environment are investing in it. EVs are making progress as well. And while it is true that a lot of damage has already been done and we will face the consequences, I also feel that decarbonization is inevitable even from a economic perspective at this point. The speed at which this happens is variable though and determines how many people will die, this is why it is important to not be pessimistic and hopeless but to try steering things in the right direction.
A bit sad how pessimistic everyone is.
Americans are pessimistic because we don’t have a functional democracy and our fascist oligarchs are too stupid to use their resources to fight climate change… And the rest of the world is pessimistic because the world’s most powerful economy and military has fallen to fascist oligarchy.
Nothing will change until we abolish the billionaires and replace our two party system with a modern multiparty parliamentary system with proportional representation
USAmericans have a religious attachment to fossil fuels that I can’t understand. “Drill baby drill” isn’t even economically viable and yet has become a call to prayer for many US politicians.
It’s rich people who want to keep being rich without risking going into a different thing.
Please stop attributing it to everyone, it’s really annoying
Who is voting for them and why do they win elections if there isn’t a substantial of people who support the idea? “Drill baby drill” isn’t a secret, it is what Republicans have been running on for over a decade.
Just slightly more people (who bother to vote) than who don’t. Doesn’t make it 100%, it’s not rocket science.
Many USAmericans are pessimistic because we were finally taking a medium sized step in the right direction, and somehow half the country thinks that’s a bad thing
True. The Middle East is the fastest growing renewable market after China and the Middle East already has very low fossil fuels and electricity prices. Of course they don’t have absurd tariffs on Chinese renewables.
The Middle East would rather sell their product to other people than use it themselves.
“Never get high on your own supply”
OPEC members have excess capacity. Saudi Arabia for example can produce an additional 3 million barrels per day without having to do anything or spend anything. So no, your assessment is wrong.
We couldn’t get people to wear a mask or get a shot when a disease was killing millions in the open.
We definitely can’t get people to change their behavior over climate change.
That’s because billionaires like Robert Murdock own all our media and they use their power to push disinformation to undermine class solidarity and democracy.
If we want to save the world then we have to get rid of the billionaires asap as they are the greatest threat to democracy.
Then maybe don’t leave it up to them. This OOP refers to a goal, not a process.
the two greatest things you can do for climate change: Live vegan, and not have children.
Actual greatest thing you could do for climate change: destroy the US military industrial complex. Not only is it a massive polluter, it also enables the capitalists to maintain their ability to extract fossil fuels and other resources around the world.
Quit it with the anti-human shit. If we’re not saving the environment for us what’s the point?
i saw a video on youtube, by someone named sabine said everyone gave up on climate action, yea they gave up like years ago, the only miracle was when lockdown happened, and global co2 fell very fast and nature quickly reclaimed certain areas. like they pretended to care, but never did anything to stop it. even in research i heard that you cant frame climate change was leaning towards caused by “people” or your research wont get funded, thats how bad funding grant sis for research for some universities.
sabine also posted absolute horseshit about trans people so I don’t trust anything she says about science anymore
She posted a nuanced video about hormones and surgery on trans-identified minors, that considered both sides of the issue. If you find that “absolute horseshit” then you are not interested in science but in religion.
get out of here. there’s no both sides to the issue and she used faulty evidence to push bullshit that’s been debunked over and over.
I heard she made another dumbass video about autism but couldn’t stomach to go through it.
she’s full of shit.
So religion then
if you don’t understand what words mean, then yeah sure
Seriously, if there’s one thing I don’t miss from reddit (I tell a lie, there’s dozens of things I don’t miss from Reddit) it’s the “Actually we’re too far gone, and everyone’s going to die in seven days because none of you jokers will buy a Tesla!~” nonsense
Funfact: Conspiracy Bullshit in the other direction is still Conspiracy Bullshit
Really? I knew it had gotten bad over there since the Rexodus but wow, it sounds rough. I’m so glad we are over here in The Good Place instead. Wait a minute…!? 🤡
It’s never too late if you seriously consider all your options Ie:
Full nuclear energy development with SMRs
Fusion reactors research
Full transition to electric/hydrogen vehicles
Economic sanctions to countries with grid power coming from carbon/ non renewable resources above a certain percentage
Full development of lunar/cis lunar infrastructure/space
Large scale deployment of solar mirror arrays designed to reflect incoming sunlight, built using lunar regolith as raw materials source
Blowing an 88 megatons hydrogen bomb under the sea, below 8 to 12 Km under the ocean floor surface to trigger about 30 years of carbon capture in a second
You know, easy stuff
And so on
I’m a pessimist in that even in the best possible situation humans would still find a way to overpopulate the earth until no solution is viable. We are parasites
Don’t disagree that civilization is a parasite, but a lot of parasites evolve to not kill their host 🙂
We are categorically not parasites. We don’t live in/on another organism deriving nutritional value from the bodies as hosts
We and other animals eat plants/plan eaters directly. We are not hosted by plants or plant eaters.
If that were the case, other animals would also be parasites. At most, we are predators
There are many definitions of parasites tho and all hinge on the time the parasite spends in/on the host
The US is fucked anyway, but if China and the EU worked together, greatness could be approved on potentially the most important front:
Economic sanctions to countries with grid power coming from carbon/ non renewable resources above a certain percentage
However, the one I’m most curious about is the following:
Blowing an 88 megatons hydrogen bomb under the sea, below 8 to 12 Km under the ocean floor surface to trigger about 30 years of carbon capture in a second
How would this work? I’m really interested in the mechanics of this, not so much the feasibility (which is non-existent anyway)
Oh the biggest bomb one is actually extremely simple
. Create (an) hydrogen) atomic bomb(s) with yield equal to or similar to 88 megatons . Go to seabed , about 12 km down on Ocean floor
. Drill about 8 to 12 km into basalt ( basalt is a mineral that fixes to carbon )
. Detonate bomb
. Watch trillions of basalt mineral get pulverized instantly into the sea
. Allow sea currents to distribute this all over the world
. Watch how oceans start absorbing more CO2
. Watch as global temperatures drop a degree and a half (1.5)
Repeat as needed, remember not to overdo it. Thankfully the ocean is extremely good at absorbing any radiation if any dares to escape
Hmm something tells me this might cause unforeseen consequences for aquatic life… But we won’t know until we try!
Well you wouldn’t explode it just anywhere, there are tons of deserted seabed places about.
The best is that the explosion would be mitigated greatly by the teratons of basalt and water over the explosion
Well, the alternative is very foreseeable consequences for aquatic life. I’m sure they’d be on board
O…k…a…y… lemme just get right onto that now… You know what, I think I’ll take a nap, and perhaps get back to it tomorrow? 👨🔬☢️💥
Don’t worry bro we’ve got people working on it as we speak
As individuals we can try, but the average population is too selfish and isn’t going to stop until it’s too late
Between the likes of pollution, deforestation, wars, extinction of species to name a few…the only thing that could save this planet is humanity somehow becoming infertile.
I don’t know if it’s really selfish more people are a part of a system that is bigger than them that forces them into situations that have a negative impact on CO2 levels
Working a job that has low pay which probably force people to housing that is further from their work place, in America most cities don’t have a great public transportation infrastructure nor do they have alternative commuting options like protected bike lanes. This forces people to have to drive more.
The Return to Office bullshit has forced more cars on the road that were not there 4 years ago which is impacting CO2 levels
These are just 2 of many different things that the system has created that have put people in situations that make slowing CO2 levels more difficult.
Yeah I mean…we are all born into an already existing system. I guess we could all kill ourselves to help the planet, but that’s not really a great option for the self. I don’t have the power to change my country’s infrastructure as a singular being.
I guess we could all kill ourselves to help the planet
There’s a scene in the show Utopia where one of the antagonists is talking to a woman with her child at the bus station. She says they could drive but it’s better for the planet if she takes the bus.
He says if she wants to save the planet she should kill her kid, because raising a child in a first world nation is one of the most carbon-intense things you can do if you can’t afford a private jet.
I agree with both of those examples
The average population isn’t too selfish, the 1% is.
They wouldn’t have made it to the richest 1% if they weren’t so selfish, and now they have great power over us all, especially regarding the climate.
I think it’s both
When I worked in an office, the amount of people who would demand that the heating was cranked up as they were sat there in a cotton t-shirt instead of layering up.
The amount of people I know who have every light turned on in their house, the heating on all day throughout the winter, don’t bother with basically insulation, don’t turn things off at night, drive to places that are easily in walking distance etc.
I could keep going on forever with a list of small and basic changes such as products purchased, recycling, waste etc but I’d be here forever.
And yet all that pales in comparison to a CEO taking a private jet to work hundreds of miles every day.
And all that pales in comparison to the amount of CO2 released by the cargo ships and planes going all around the world every day to support our global economy.
Not trying to absolve the average Joe of their responsibility towards the environment, but like, there’s only so much actually in our control. And even if every single one of us 99%ers did everything in our power correctly, unless we see huge global systematic changes at the policy level (like we did with the ozone layer), it probably won’t be enough.
And all that pales in comparison to the amount of CO2 released by the cargo ships and planes going all around the world every day to support our global economy.
Yeah, and who’s fueling said global economy? Regular people browsing Shein ordering ridiculous amounts of plastic-wrapped shit priced at ridiculously low levels.
Carbon tax is the only solution because it would affect both the rich and the poor. Yeah sure a rich CEO wouldn’t feel a simple 2 or 3 fold cost increase to their jet-setting, but if at the same time their company makes a lot less money because people ain’t buying their pointless shit now that carbon is taxed and things are expensive? That CEO might just start flying less too. And we’d need way fewer cargo ships operating if people bought fewer goods. Oh and manufacturing might become more decentralized again once carbon tax from transportation is an actual cost to consider.
Thing is, nobody is going to want a carbon tax. We’d all have to be inconvenienced for that. We all take so much shit for granted. So we’re all fucked.
Yeah, and who’s fueling said global economy? Regular people browsing Shein ordering ridiculous amounts of plastic-wrapped shit priced at ridiculously low levels.
Sure, yes, average people play their part in the global economy. But I think the infinite growth mentality is a big part of it too, which again, falls solely on the CEOs.
Ultimately I do agree with your overall assessment, things do feel kinda hopeless right now, because it just doesn’t seem like very many people in a position to make a difference are really doing anything.
Would that even matter? As in e.g. the timing and speed - like those still alive would keep going for quite awhile, perhaps all the more so given increasing technology, especially if the effects of aging were to be if not eliminated entirely then pushed back even a little bit more, or cancer, etc.
Indeed, read the Exxon-Mobil report from the late 1970’s and early 80’s. They hit the nail on the head in regard to global warming. Somebody posted it on Lemmy.
Wait a minute… TIL that Lemmy existed in the late 1970’s!? 🤪🤡🤥🫠
I think this message has good and bad uses. As a way to stop people from being doomers and not taking any action? Great. But I’ve also seen this kind of argument be used to justify an incrementalist approach to an issue that we absolutely cannot afford to go slow on or half ass. “Something is better than nothing” isn’t good enough. If we take 1 step forward and 2 steps back we’re going to lose. And that’s if the problem was linear. The fact that feedback loops accelerate the problem means we lose more and more ground the longer we wait to rip the bandaid off.
If the best allowable solution is to keep electing liberals who take money from capitalists to promote symbolic progress or “market based solutions” while continuing to approve new fossil fuel projects, then we really are doomed.
True, but also don’t allow perfection to be the enemy of good.
I recall in Star Wars when the Jedi accused the Trade Federation of having invaded Naboo. Did it really? This needs to be verified, doesn’t it? Oh but wait, it’s the word of “Jedi”, right, not just “some guys”? Yeah but can we really play at favoritism? Wait, how is that favoritism when they have an established mandate to help protect the Republic… and on and on.
Ironically, they could have sent an entire fleet, and if it turned out to be a simple misunderstanding, then oops, so well, now we know not to trust even “Jedi” in the future.
People are really bad at measuring the cost of NOT acting. Like yeah, vaccines can cause all kinds of things up to and including death… but then again, so too can a deadly disease?!
Anyway, the job of science is to figure stuff out and communicate what was found - not even - necessarily, at least usually - including translation to the general public, which is more of a reporting task. Politics doesn’t even begin to enter into that. So I think it’s awesome that this science post is pointing out some facts that may be relevant as people discuss the political ramifications and next steps. Ofc communication is a 2-way endeavor and if politicians don’t understand what the scientist is saying, they can ask questions, but so far the OOP scientist here seems to have done her part, and quite well it looks to me (who admittedly knows next to nothing whatsoever about climate science, but at least this seems to have succeeded at the communicate clearly portion:-).
True, but also don’t allow perfection to be the enemy of good.
I think this logic fundamentally misses the point. This isn’t me not starting a project because I don’t think I could do it perfectly so why bother. It’s someone else showing me their outline for the project and telling me that I don’t need to do anything, they’ll get it done on time. Then it doesn’t get done because they never intended to do anything, they just didn’t want anyone else completing anything.
If we were just doing small things because that’s all we could feasibly do for now and we’re working our way up to big things, that’d be fine. It might not be enough, but it’d be what we’re working with. But the small actions being taken by capitalist governments aren’t designed to chip away at the problem slowly. Their purpose is to give the appearance that the current system is capable of solving the problem and someone is working on it, so we don’t need to think about more radical solutions. The goal is to block progress, not merely to work on it in some slow and responsible way. “Look, the government joined a non-binding agreement saying that we’re working on climate change! We should totally keep voting for them because it’s better than nothing!”
It’s even worse than that though. They’re not just doing things for show to dampen political will for greater change. These are the same people that keep giving the military, surveillance, and police state more and more money and power. We are allowing them to build the tools they need to keep us in our place. By continuing along this path we’re making it harder and harder for us to eventually do what needs to be done.
The reality is that we’re not going to be able to save ourselves while capitalists are in charge. Capitalism fundamentally demands endless growth and a concentration of wealth and power. Efforts to curtail that growth will be stopped and the costs of that growth is distributed to those with less power.
As for the science/science communication part of this: I think it should be pretty clear that that isn’t the problem. The science is well known at this point. The problem is that the people who have the power to fix things don’t care and are so invested in the status quo that they’d sooner ratchet up violent repression before they’d actually try to solve the problem.
So it sounds like the first step is to care.
As the OOP said too.
Removed by mod
Billion, with a “B”.
And no. We could also discover how to travel into alternate realities instead, or perhaps wake up from The Matrix? :-P
There are also a variety to ways to live differently, like a biodome even if partial. Many solutions working together rather than one singular one “saving” the day.
And this is Uplifting News - which is what it’s all about!:-)
I meant “Billion”. Pardon me.
All it takes is one rank fart to ruin the Biodome idea.
But I’m glad to be living during this time frame, however.
If a biodome might be needed for like 6-12 hours in the hottest part of the day for the sake of survivability and efficiency in heating, compared to being needed 20-24 hours a day, then I could begin to see the value of OOP’s words. Better yet, if some other technology could bring that timeframe down to a mere 3-6 hours (I’m imagining maybe like a yearly average, so longer some days and shorter on others), and then some other technology still further down to 1-3 hours, then collectively rather than one single approach could help to reduce rather than eliminate the need for such.
Perhaps we’ll live like in the Dune movie, with everyone wearing a personal stillsuit (aka the “biodome” is personal)… such that a fart primarily affects the one doing it, which at that long starts to actually convince someone to change their diet? 😉
“Ruin” itself is a word with nuances.
The fart joke was a reference to the “Biodome” movie with Pauly Shore lol but I like your still suit idea
I know why we’d want to delay the inevitable with these efforts, and who knows what we’d be capable of in a few hundred years. It’s just interesting to think about future proofing mankind, as in taking to the stars for refuge or living in domes.
Also profound to ponder if mankind is really worth saving.
Also, it’s quite surreal that mankind has only been around for a few hundred thousand years, but only the last few hundred in the industrial age is apparently enough to kill a planet that’s been around for billions of years and went through 5 extinction events. It just seems like the planet is more resilient than its life forms and it’s all just panic.
Damnit, you just made me realize that my true goal in life was to wear a stillsuit (or maybe it was to be closer to Timothée Chalamet?😊)
We’re on course for our oceans to acidify and air to be unbreathable in many places before the end of the century.
It doesn’t get a lot worse than that
That’s why we do what we can to reduce it just like the post said! Wow!!!
Humanity has to continue unshitting its pants.
Great but I already do as much as I personally can handle. Would be great if society at large, e.g. laws, regulations, and big corps, could get on the same level.
Me: dusts off hands Installed solar on the roof, bicycling to work, updated the insulation on all my windows, and drastically reduced the amount of plastic in my life.
Tech Company Next Door: CONSUMES 70 MwH OF POWER FOR TWO YEARS STRAIGHT POWERING AN UNOPTIMIZED AI
Me: Begins flipping through a copy of How To Blow Up A Pipeline
Don’t blow up the pipeline, that’ll pollute the environment! Go for the pumping infrastructure, if you can knock out a pump you can decrease or even completely stop the flow of oil.
That’s what this post is saying. Do YOUR part. That’s all you can do.
That’s all you can do.
It’s not “all” you can do, though. At what point does “eco-terrorism” turn into “justified self-defense?”
If eco-terrorism is what YOU can do, then that’s what you can do. I can’t do that, so I’ll do my part as best as I can. I can’t save the world alone, so I’ll just do my best.
If everyone, including corporations, did their best, we’d be in a better place.
Tuesday.
I agree, many of us have maxed out passive improvements. Now let’s work on active.
Call your local oil company CEO. Get a job at Exxon and really half ass it. Visit your town government and demand better public transport and electric busses. Take a dump on the nearest gas pump.
Only some of those are jokes and I’m not sure which.
Don’t poop on stuff you don’t own.
Don’t poop on stuff you don’t own.
Bad news for everyone who rents their home, and thus doesn’t technically own a toilet :(
