Voting is the least we can do BUT… do not expect systematic change (that helps the working class) to come from the top down. Both parties agree on legal bribery, insider trading, “good billionaires”, the voting system, and the two party system. Meaningful change is going to require more effort: i.e., grass roots organizing from the bottom up. Start in your own community and the change will grow organically.
I’ve been voting. Doesn’t seem to work.
It only works in aggregate. Like how a drop of water won’t quench anyone’s thirst, but a 20 gallon barrel generally will.
This is why I hate group projects
One person puts in all the work
Five people don’t
Everyone fails
:) :) :) :) :)
(please kill me)
One thing I learned early in my academic career was that if I wanted a good grade on a group project it was easier to just do everything myself.
The sooner I can fuck off to the middle of nowhere and not deal with any of you anymore the better.
College in a nutshell. Fuck you steve, thanks for phoning in your part of the final.
I thought the system was to dump the barrel out at the top of a hill so you can proclaim how much you’re doing for the thirsty person at the bottom.
Trickle down, but for voting too!
Oh, and I guess that’s what Trump literally did with the water in California, except they were different hills altogether.
Thats piss in that barrel, not water. We are not a society thats content to just leave everyone else alone if they arent affecting you.
It only works in aggregate.
It just plain does not work. Study: Congress literally doesn’t care what you think
pugjesus,
Are you proposing that the voice of individuals is being represented well against the voice of wealthy donors/business owners? That doesnt seem realistic, right?
Did you not fucking read the article
I read a lot of the “fucking” article (your words). It attempts to disprove a number of studies at once with flimsy analysis. The conclusion of their line of reasoning is that the will of the people is being represented just fine in congress. Seems false on the face of it to any observer of congress’s actions, and the events of the last election. Hence my question. Did YOU read the article.
It attempts to disprove a number of studies at once with flimsy analysis.
… it only rebuts one study, and it does so by citing three others.
So you didn’t read the article. Or even skim it.
The conclusion of their line of reasoning is that the will of the people is being represented just fine in congress.
Lord.
Have you tried the second amendment?
that’s that what they call every week, when a mass shooting happens, right?
Boardrooms not classrooms
I cant get behind that idea because the logic doesnt check out.
What good is a small antipersonnel device against tyranny thats so well staffed? Seems to me like suicide. Do you figure your neighbors will join you? Seems doubtful to me.
Is taking someone down with you some sort of comfort? If it comes to it, running for your life seems a significantly better option. What are you fighting for, your country? your housing lot? our “way of life”?
It’s mitigation.
Show me the part where it mitigated giving the entire government to nazis
Took longer
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
“This is super important but will ultimately fail and you’ll have to shoot the Nazis anyway.”
mit·i·ga·tion noun
the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something.
“the emphasis is on the identification and mitigation of pollution”
Are there not Nazis in charge of our government? How was that at all mitigated and not just delayed?
making it difficult to vote is a feature not a bug.
The question isn’t why are they not doing anything but why didn’t they do anything when they had the chance.
Obama had the house and senate his first term and all we got was shitty healthcare and drone bombing wedding receptions. We need a new opposition party.
Oh and the Dodd-Frank act regulating Wallstreet. And saving the economy from the massive financial crash with the Recovery Act. And an act that extended how long after being fired someone can file for unemployment. And new tax legislation that had tax increases to help pay for the investment in the economy with the recovery act. And around 50 other pieces of legislation.
Plus the “shitty health care” you mentioned mandated insurance companies have to cover people with pre-existing conditions giving insurance to tens of millions of people. And extended Medicaid to tens of millions of people providing relatively cheap medical care by comparison to before. Free? No. But many went from having bills of multiple hundreds a month to just 50. Again, perfect? No. But a massive fucking improvement.
All that in the 2 years he had both houses. Not his entire first term. Much of it was incredibly influential even if not perfect. To say we got nothing out of it is misrepresenting both what we got and what we had before.
Edit: and increasing the minimum wage.
All that in the 2 years he had both houses
And they had a filibuster proof majority in the Senate for a whopping 2 months.
Which is when we got the ACA.
I.E. the literal bare minimum. They even managed to argue themselves out of the public option while still getting zero votes from Republicans.
On a bill originally derived from a conservative think tank.
And that included Manchin and Lieberman. Ugh.
And despite that we’re still in the shit
So stop blaming Democrats who have been actively trying to improve things, and blame the Republicans who have been, and actively are RIGHT NOW, destroying things.
I’ll blame the folks who have power to stop it and are doing exactly fuck all.
That includes the fucking voters, you know.
Try to backpedal with your self sabotage now, motherfuckers.
The DNC lit a billion dollars on fire to lose to a racist rapist again. The “adults in the room” couldn’t beat a semi-literate buffoon. AGAIN.
Voters should have voted, yeah, but in more civilized cultures the folks at the DNC would have fallen on their swords.
Well a major influence on that is because people keep voting for Republicans even when Democrats have progressive policies on their platforms. Republicans winning the House in 2010 kneecapped every single thing the Democrats had been striving for. 2010 had the lowest turn out for a midterm in decades. Often because of people on the left blaming Obama for not fixing everything right away, or because there is a depressingly large population of the country that don’t even know midterms exist.
Republicans fuck everything over, and people keep voting for them. Democrats don’t fix everything right away, and people refuse to vote for them. Such is the stupidity of the American public.
Democrats are also completely unprepared when they do have power. Where’s their project 2027? Why do they dilly dally and prevaricate when they know they have zero time to do anything?
And why do they constantly insist on playing nice? Republicans have been assholes my entire life and Democrats refuse to acknowledge this.
A political party that can only get power for four months out of forty years is broken and should be berated out of existence.
Are they unprepared though? Because every time they get full power they get shit done. Not as much as would be ideal but they still do stuff. And they also would have passed multiple more things in 21-22 if they had been given more seats in the Senate, having a 50-50 Senate made it only possible to get some things done not everything, they could have played dirty and gotten more done. For instance they weren’t able to pass their Voting reform bill that had passed the House and would drastically have changed and improved how we vote. But it’s still BS to say they don’t get anything done. That’s literally far right propaganda that has become so pervasive it convinces people on both sides that the Democrats are useless and never do anything.
That said, about Project 2025. It was put together by the Heritage Foundation. A think tank that does its work and puts it out for free. They’re backed by right wing billionaires. So the Republican party didn’t make it, despite it being their platform. Also wouldn’t it be Project 2029 for theirs since 2027 is a midterm and the whole point for that is to obstruct and do oversight on trump and his administration by having any power again. That said again. They don’t have the massive far right billionaires driving the equivalent of a Project 2025 and democratic voters also frequently argue against Billionaires driving something like that. Project 2025 is successful because all the work was done by Heritage.
Also also, I 100% agree that it’s insane they keep playing nice. They have to play dirty and that means breaking some rules which they seem unwilling to do.
But they are put into power by the Voters and then punished by the Voters despite doing significant legislation and improving the country when they get full power. So them not being able to take power for as much time as republicans has to do with the voters and the Republicans cheating with gerrymandering and voter suppression. And general Republican propaganda destroying the system.
But even this last Election Harris wanted to increase the minimum wage, wanted to put caps on rent increases, wanted to give first time home buyers 25,000 down payment assistance, wanted to legalize weed, wanted to introduce an Unrealized gains tax on people who have stock portfolios bigger than 100 million, increasing the corporate tax rate, talking about actually trying to punish companies who engage in shrinkflation. She had progressive policies on her platform, but instead of Democrats going out and voting and the progressive legislation driving people to the polls, everyone summarized her as only ever being not-Tump and them being the same and some saying she even had no policies. Democrats have things they campaign on, but the Voters say no. Mainly because the left doesn’t vote, or split their vote, and the right ALWAYS votes.
Personally, I’m not saying the Democrats can’t or shouldn’t be better, I think the party needs to be drastically reformed and we need to primary and kick out the older generation and we need more progressives who can talk more like real people. But I’m also trying to be fair about how things actually happen when they are in power.
Damn. Preach.
He had a filibuster-proof majority for a handful of weeks, and we got better healthcare than what was already on the table. While it’s not great healthcare, it’s still better than before.
That included some staunchly conservative Democrats, by the by. Many of whom were ultra “pro-life”, which means abortion rights weren’t gonna happen.
Additionally, people who mention drone strikes fail to a) recognize the tech was relatively new, but not so new that it was actually affordable to the DOD, and b) each president after has had more drone strikes.
But let’s not let facts get in the way of our outage or anything.
lah dee dah, every president since has used drones. what, all two of them?
Obama had a filibuster proof majority for a grand total of 73 days and they did Obamacare. Dems haven’t had that since.
Get rid of filibuster. Pack the supreme court. Do whatever you have to do to do what is in the benefit of the public. It ain’t that hard, it is very popular but the democratic party is just not interested in working for the people.
It ain’t that hard, it is very popular but the democratic party is just not interested in working for the people.
It sure as shit was not popular in 2009. It’s not even popular now.
Most people don’t know jack fucking shit.
I’m not sure I agree with that. Before suggesting someone wield that kind of power, consider how you’d feel about it if the opposition parties did that too.
At this point, I think the USA is better off just reforming its constitution. And possibly splitting the union into 5-10 separate smaller countries. The country is clearly not an effective union anymore, and to be honest, hasn’t been for a very long time. This isn’t the first time there’s been a north-south divide and it certainly won’t be the last, so why prolong the suffering? Just break it up and be done with it. Everyone will probably be much happier that way.
the fascist party has already done that. I’m not against taking off the gloves if the other guy is coming at me with a fucking knife.
It’s less of a north/south divide and more of a rural/urban divide.
The modern Democratic party fights harder against its own “base” than they do against the opposing party. People still came out in droves to vote for them despite that but their dedication to complacency in a system that is failing everybody but the rich left enough people behind to tip the scales. The Dems have enabled this and anybody who expects them to save us from it is delusional.
Realistically, it’s the Democrats who failed the voting public. Their campaign of “We offer you nothing!”, did not seem to drag in very many undecided voters. You and I might be very politically active, but the majority of Americans are not.
You need to give them a reason to go out and vote. A lot of people have very short attention spans, and easily forgot how bad Trump was the first time around and shaming the people for their shortsightedness is not how you win elections.
Keep telling yourself the democrats failed and somehow they are now suffering, they aren’t, they’ll get to take 4 years off and enjoy their wealth, it’s the voters who tried to punish the dems by not voting who are the morons
Keep telling yourself the voters are morons until we lose in 2026 and 2028. If Democratic candidates don’t convince people to come out and vote we are lost.
Hey I’m Canadian, looking at this from the outside. You guys inside the shit show can’t quite see how the rest of us see you and your situation
Hey I’m Canadian too. Don’t speak for “the rest of us.” It’s the Democratic parties’ own gd fault that they lost. If you can’t convince the average voter to vote for you when you’re running against an obviously volatile, incompetent, narcissistic, geriatric moron with fascistic tendencies backed up by the world’s richest and least charismatic deadbeat dad then you done fucked up.
If we lose in 2026 and 2028 I think that would just further prove that voters are morons.
The only people actually losing here are the American people.
But that’s the problem. The voters are all morons. The Democrats knew this. And Republicans were giving a master class on how to make that work. But the Democrats didn’t do anything. They treat politics like a friendly game of Monopoly. They assume the rules are magically enforced. So when the Republicans started to cheat, the Dems kept playing by the rules. And now we have a fascist government.
Also, I don’t think the Democrats are suffering. They’re all rich. They can live just fine in a fascist US, they have enough money. We are the ones that are going to be loaded onto the trains.
Their point was that the Democrats didn’t fail, because they didn’t try in the first place
Biden was the “Nothing will essentially change” candidate. We finally pushed him out, but Harris only had 2 weeks to come up with “Something”. That something? A small tax credit for small businesses that was DOA in the house. It was probably why they didn’t promise anything else - if a TAX CUT isn’t passing the GOP controlled parts of congress, what the heck could Harris promise that would?
“That something” also included the largest medicare expansion in history and $25k first time homebuyer assistance.
The democratic message was less “we offer you nothing” than “nothing will change”.
Nothing will change has good sides and bad sides. The bad side is that there are no new radical fixes, just small, incremental changes.
The good side of nothing will change is… well look at the absolute chaos of the Trump second presidency. Installing absolutely unqualified candidates everywhere, the military’s first DUI hire for secretary of defence. The absolute destruction of USAID. Musk’s chaos putting BigBalls in charge of trillions of dollars of government spending.
(And, as an aside, it’s not even true that with the democrats nothing was going to change. Just look at the progress they had been making on antitrust. But, it’s true that they were shit at messaging and taking credit for their accomplishments.)
“We offer nothing” and “nothing will change” are fundamentally the same thing when things are objectively bad.
Not when things could get much, much worse.
If you are eating raw veggies and corn flakes nothing will change means you eat boring food. Offering nothing means you die a painful death. See the difference?
Tens of millions of people voted for the Democrats. Do they not get to complain?
The people complaining hardest are the ones who called democrats genocidal fascists and refused to vote. This site was filled to the brim with anty Democrat posts at election time, now it’s filled with “why aren’t they doing anything??” Posts, it’s the same people
TBF I voted extra hard for Harris and I’m still wondering why Democrats are voting yes on Trumps cabinet picks and why an 83 year old Bernie Sanders is out drumming up the masses while Hakeem Jefferies tells Jon Stewart that we’re all too stupid to know how amazing Democrats are.
ALSO, Democrats don’t seem to give a shit about the genocide, including you. So IDK what the fuck you expect me to say. I voted for harm reduction because I knew exactly what Trump was going to do, but that doesn’t mean I gave up all of my rights to complain about the shit job that Democrats do.
You need to understand that American non-voters are unironically fucking stupid. They heard you complaining about Democrats and that just reinforced their decision to not vote for anyone.
Its simple cause and effect.
Wait, so it’s up to me to sweep all of the bullshit under the rug so we can trick people into voting for the lesser evil instead of the Democrats being responsible for giving the people what they want and need?
Wtf
I’m not saying that. I’m describing cause and effect.
You need to ask yourself what is more important, consequences or virtue? Because sometimes you don’t get both.
What’s more important to me is that we demand better from our elected officials and stop accepting “at least it’s not the very worst” as acceptable.
You can Susan Collins at me all day but you’re never going to convince me to go out and cheer on “could be worse, bro”. I KNOW it could be worse and that’s why I vote against republicans but I’m going to demand the people I vote for DO BETTER.
Our officials mostly lost this election. And might not even have a chance to run again.
Demanding better can be phrased in a way as to not encourage people to abstain form voting them in.
It doesn’t really matter anymore.
Yes. Unironically yes. Unless you enjoy what we have today.
Na, lying to people is far above my pay grade. Knock yourself out, though.
Maybe the Democrats should prove the complainers wrong. The Democratic leadership has had plenty of opportunity to build trust amongst the voters, and decided to ignore them instead. They’ve spent years letting their voters down, which is why they aren’t trusted.
I agree.
We still should have prevented Trump from winning by more people voting Democrat.
And then what? Get 4 more years of a genocidal Cop in the white house further normalizing “tough on the border” policies and genocidal foreign policy. And then follow it up with another Republican with even more of a “mandate” to murder immigrants and bomb brown kids? America has been a dictatorship of the capitalist class since it’s founding. Voting for president is like voting for a temporary court jester. It doesn’t change who runs this country. It only changes which interest of the ruling class are served.
Removed by mod
“Why should we prove the complainers and voters wrong? We should stick to the guns that made people sick of us in 2016, 2020, and 2024! Nothing will fundamentally change, and that’s final!”
And they wonder why people are sick of neoliberalism and willing to listen to a lying fascist saying he’d change something, just not for the better of anyone but the 1%.
What has the Democrats offered in the face of growing inequality and increasing power of corporations?
They probably told people, however media and the people where busy watching the Trump freak show, and listening to all the lies about of how bad the Democrats are.
How naive of you.
That is irrelevant. You don’t seem to understand the point I’m making. I’m saying the average American hears critiques and only process them at surface level and forms a black and white evaluation on that basis. This is incredibly fucking stupid.
And knowing that there are so many American’s like this: it is legitimately going to make fewer Americans vote to prevent the fascist from taking power (and did!) because they’ll feel like they’re aligning with the “bad guys” if you critique Democrats in public without a load of additional context (that some wont even absorb anyway if you provided it).
Why should people vote for a party that do not even want to resolve the most pressing issues that affect their daily lives?
To prevent fascists from taking power.
I feel like your missing that many people do see the Democrats as the bad guys, and I can’t say that I blame them. We recently asked them to say “Genocide is bad, and we won’t support it” and they wouldn’t. They are the baddies
I feel like your missing that many people do see the Democrats as the bad guys
No I’m not. I literally said that they would. And I hold that such a black and white surface level evaluation of the situation and to then choose not to vote is aggressively fucking stupid.
And TBH, I don’t want to help stupid people if they’re going to keep dragging me into the mud. I’ve worried about politics for most of my life and worked to make things better for other people but this election has freed me to focus on helping mostly just myself and a few close people that align with me. Most other people are hopeless. I’m done swimming up a waterfall.
Why is your criticism so heavily directed at voters? Voting for who you want is a fundamental part of democracy. You are spending so much energy criticizing voters but I haven’t seen an ounce of criticism for the actual party leadership. It is literally the job of the party leaders to create a platform that aligns with its voting base. They literally turned their back on their base in order to try to appeal to Trump voters with anti immigration policies. THEY HAD ADS TALKING ABOUT BUILDING THE WALL. Do you think MAYBE that has something to do with why the Democrats failed to get voters out to the polls?
I hate the democratic leadership as well. I can hate two groups at the same time. But I primarily hate them for losing to fascists and not taking the threat seriously. Much like I hate the non-voters for basically the same fucking reason.
The democrats thought that appealing to moderate republicans and centrists would siphon votes from Trump. This was obviously a stupid idea and I cringed as they did so and hoped that it wouldn’t hurt them too bad in the polls. It obviously fucking did.
The thing is, they more or less admitted so at this point that their strategy was dumb as fuck and that Sanders was right all along.
There are still people who did not vote who are accelerationists, “apolitical”, or think “democrats and republicans are identical” and my spite and hatred of those people is so incredibly intense. I hope they get exactly what they did not vote against. I resent that I’ve put effort where they choose not to and now expect me to continue fucking fighting after they let the difficulty level explode and likely doom the planet to a scorching hellscape.
I think if you voted for Democrats you get to complain, but if you were eligible to vote and didn’t have to jump through a ton of hoops to do so you don’t get to complain. This could have been avoided.
edit: to be clear, I don’t think Democratic leadership really cares that we’ve got a dictator. But voting for them was harm reduction and too many people couldn’t be bothered, whatever the reason.
Why do people pretend that each election is in isolation? That if somehow we had all just voted for Harris even harder that America wasn’t headed down this path anyway. This shit has been a plan of American politics since Ronald Reagan.
I’m not an “accelerationist” by any means. But it’s just silly to act like this is a problem with voter turnout and only if we had “voted harder” it would all be fine. No. The entire system is fundamentally broken. That’s how we got here.
I don’t claim this election was in isolation but I agree with everything else you’ve said. We need people to vote for the harm reduction, and we need people to organize because our system of government is trash. Biden being in office gave us four years to organize with the usual amount of opposition instead of the federal government being ordered to go after anyone the fascists don’t like; his response to the Gaza camps last year was fucked up but if/when something like that happens again, Trump’s gonna have the military kill people.
I think this was inevitable too, it would have taken the people at the top choosing to fight fascism like the threat it is and I didn’t/don’t see that happening. I voted for Harris because it gives us breathing room, and if Trump doesn’t survive the next four years it would be harder for the fascist movement to retain its power if they didn’t have complete control of the government. At the same time I’ve been involved in activism for the last few years, because we need people to do both.
And the Democratic leadership allowed that to happen. The GOP did all of this in full public view.
The Democrats aligned themselves with Republicans on economic and labor policy under Clinton, they deregulated the media under Clinton, and they did nothing at all to counter the massive GOP controlled media empire. That’s on them.
The Democrats are weak. Even now they blame everyone but themselves for their political failures. Mainly trans people and progressives. It’s always the voters ’ fault when they lose.
They completely ignore the fact that most Trump-voting independents voted for him because of the economy, not because of social issues. They gaslit us about having the “greatest economy in the world” while we’re living through a housing crisis, record inflation, and a job market full of shitty work and a completely stagnant white collar sector.
Fuck the Democrats. We need to take them out like MAGA did the GOP.
Unfortunately I don’t think that that’s possible. MAGA was able to take over the Republican party because they still fundamentally defend the interest of capital. It’s why you still have career Republicans that criticized MAGA as a part of MAGA today.
The Democrats refuse to move left because leftist are anti capitalist and pro worker. They will never move that way because it is against their class interest and against the class interest of their donors. The most they will do is “allow” some slightly progressive voices like AOC into the party at “tokens”. But they will never platform them or allow them to grow.
The Democrats will gladly lose elections if it prevents anyone left of Reagan from winning.
you are absolutely welcome to complain, however i would advise you to complain about actual real issues, rather than “black hole issues” like “The DNC didn’t personally target me and now i feel left out” because let’s be honest, nobody fucking cares. We have problems to be solving, not shit to be moping over.
So disingenuous. The DNC targeted voters that don’t even exist. Their strategy on the economy was to gaslight voters and tell them that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating. A president who spent 4 years yelling at then that everything was fine in the middle of a housing crisis with record inflation.
The whining about “unfair” criticism is unbelievable. Give me a break. The Democratic leadership is completely out of touch with voters. Kamala never should’ve let them run her campaign.
So disingenuous. The DNC targeted voters that don’t even exist.
and yet people went to the rallies? People were excited about the election, people felt good until it happened. And then everybody flipped like a switch and went edgy teen “i’m going to do something really bad” mode immediately after.
Their strategy on the economy was to gaslight voters and tell them that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating.
which to be fair, was accurate, and is true, all of their claims are factually correct, the problem is that voters are stupid, and politicians struggle to get this point across to their idiot supporter base appropriately for some reason. The consumers tend to feel the effects of a recession, in a lagged period. Think about covid, not many people struggled through covid, it was easier than most people thought it would be, it’s the inflation that happens after that really causes problems. The economy tends to do significantly better through these periods of inflation, which is why the inflation happens. To stem the growth to more reasonable levels. Otherwise you have some really funny shit happen.
that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating.
find me any evidence of approval rating meaning literally anything. Please.
A president who spent 4 years yelling at then that everything was fine in the middle of a housing crisis with record inflation.
the record inflation happened after covid, at the end of the four year term, nobody should’ve been surprised by this, it was an established and expected thing that was going to happen, but for some reason everybody now pretends like inflation never should’ve happened, because covid “wasn’t that bad actually” even though it was a literal failure of the global shipping industry. Of course the inflation is going to be pretty bad, that’s literally how Keynesian economics work.
The whining about “unfair” criticism is unbelievable. Give me a break. The Democratic leadership is completely out of touch with voters.
there is argument to be made about the DNC being out of touch, and just generally incompetent. However people mostly just like to bitch and yell I.E. your comment, rather than do anything to actually fix the fucking issue, and i guess hoping for a golden goose to show up and suddenly fix everything, even though that’s literally not how this works, and we BOTH know this. We ALL know this.
BUT FOR SOME REASON WE CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT WHEN IT’S MOST CONVENIENT.
edit: the housing crisis was in part instated by trump admin era tariffs on canadian lumber? Literally has nothing to do with that admin.
And over one third of voters didn’t vote for anyone. This is talking about them:
https://www.environmentalvoter.org/updates/2024-was-landslidefor-did-not-vote
You can’t berate people into voting the way you want. That is the lesson the DNC needs to learn if they actually want to win.
Social media trolls could do to realize that too.
fuck it. I voted dem every election and they did fuckall. We got obamacare, whoop deee doo. we have to buy insurance now. fat load of good that did.
Fuck the dems. I’m leaving and voting for some other party, and you should too. campaigning for a third party should start right fucking now, so the dems can’t say “oH, ThE TiMe FoR SuPpOrTiNg a ThIrD pArTy IsN’t 5 MoNtHs BeFoRe An ElEcTIoN!” Fuck you, you goddamned fake ass left party.
Yes! This is the time to campaign for a third party, or put forward more progressive Democrats, or take a short-sighted meaningless stance on a genocide being done by someone else somewhere else.
However, 2 years from now, in November, you need to vote for the candidate that is most able to win against the fascist ass-kissing trump sycophant, even if they aren’t a 100% match for your political views or objectives.
Edit: judging from the votes on this comment, we’re gonna lose again because half of you refuse to learn anything from history that (metaphorically) happened yesterday.
or put forward more progressive Democrats,
Beat this drum.
SHOW UP TO THE FUCKING PRIMARIES.
I remember it being fucking dead in my polling place back in 2020 for the primaries compared to the general.
Yeah, primaries are depressing.
Also, at least in my state (a red, semi-regressive state) you can register for and vote in the primaries completely by mail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
Joe Biden won that primary with a mere 20 million votes. Bernie had 10, out of a potential voter pool of 87 million.
You’re 100% right, but just a heads up, you absolutely will hear dems say that. Campaigning for a third party started long ago and you just joined in.
Dems will have no idea how long you’ve been supporting third-party candidates, and will only recall the discussions they hear while engaged - during election season.
This is a little bit dishonest. It’s not about the length of time you support a party but how much general support they have. You absolutely should support third party and grow the voter base on local and state and even push for larger support. But the spoiler effect is very real. In major elections where voting third party will elect the individuals most likely to harm you and your lifestyle in the most severe ways, and it is extremely obvious that third party has no real horse in the game, you hurt more than yourself. I agree Dems either need to figure their shit out and cut out the cancer or they need to get the fuck out of the way, but until third party candidates stand a real chance at national change for good, i will only be voting for them in elections they either stand a chance in or where showing support for them will help grow the voter base while limiting harm. Mid terms, vote 3pt. Primaries, vote 3pt. General election? Vote to minimize harm while maintaining a potential win.
Damn right the spoiler effect is very real. It was obvious to everyone that it needs to be fixed at a national level in 2000, and obvious that it needs to be fixed in the Democratic primaries in 2020.
So why would we believe any excuse for not opposing it with clone independent voting systems, like third-party candidates do. I’m surprised those don’t strike you as dishonest.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to about “independent voting systems”. I’m not talking about another system of voting in this case.
Is this one of those both parties same things? Because one party is literally pushing dictatorship. I don’t subscribe to that nonsense in our current system. Kamala Harris, for all her faults, would not be deporting brown people, taking away benefits for the poor, lowing the taxes on the rich, and literally handing money to corporations by the fistful. Both parties suck. But one is clearly worse.
No, it’s not. One side is fascist, the other side blatantly sold us out to fascists since 2000.
What’s really telling is that Democratic Party supporters seem to think that the Green Party is the only third party to exist, and that splitting the vote only affects them, when the right-wing parties and independent candidates get many, many more votes.
Weird how the Greens who get less votes than the Libertarians in every election somehow throw the vote to Republicans, when the Libertarians:
- Are in all 50 states, the greens often are in just over half
- More voters are registered Libertarian than any other third party since the 1980s
- More people voted for Libertarian than Green in 2000, 2016, and 2024
- Yet somehow Green voters are blamed in all of these despite if every Green voter was given to Democrats they wouldn’t have won, but Libertarian votes would have
- And you never see Democrats getting mad at the serious third party that people actually vote for in swing states, but they have taken ideas from the Green party like the Green New Deal
One of those things where both
- Nonvoters who complain that Democrats aren’t doing enough to protect them are exactly the kind of entitled twats who attack what meagre defenses we have against fascism, and then whine (blaming those same defenses they themselves worked to undermine) when fascism attacks them.
AND
- Dems who do nothing in this period are inex-fucking-scusable, if predictably adhering to their norms-based civility politics schtick which plays so well with suburban white folk; and Dems in general are only interested in reform insofar as public opinion forces them to support it, and not an inch further.
are true.
Everyone is constantly making excuses for the Democrats, but if a political party had zero power except for four months out of forty fucking years you’d think we’d at least try to replace them.
I wrote up a big long thing and deleted it, because fuck that.
The country doesn’t want the change we want. Not even the Dem base, not when the ads start blaring and snarl words start getting tossed around. Even significantly left-leaning states like Cali and Washington regularly reject ballot initiatives for progressive measures.
That the Dems, milquetoast and moderate as they are, and as broad a coalition as they make, had power for 4 months out of 40 years is an aberration caused only by the massive fuck-ups of the Bush administration.
Correctly speaking, the Dems probably should’ve had none.
Yeah, I’ve come to the same conclusion: This country is fucked and there’s no way I’ll fit in anywhere.
I have two modes, really.
-
“Things are bad, but they will get better.” Looking at the past, things were immeasurably worse. That they’re still incredibly dogshit now is not a condemnation of our trajectory for all eternity (though I do suspect after this last election, there will need to be a tumultuous ‘correction’, civil rights or civil war style, to return to even the meagre rate of improvement we had before). 2025 is not 1925, and certainly not 1825 or 1025. Technological advancement aside, we have made incredible gains in the history of human civilization, and there’s no reason that it should stop now, despite the seeming power of the elites. Relatively speaking, we are immensely educated and powerful compared to past generations of the working class. Our tools of communication are far further removed from elite control - though that should be interpreted with a touch of ‘damnation by faint praise’. We may feel helpless and hopeless, but they are only feelings - feelings always pass, rightly or wrongly; and reality always asserts itself when the two collide.
-
“Holy fuck, what do you mean that by the time I’m in my 90s things might be slightly better? Assuming there isn’t a half-century detour that makes things worse first, Reconstruction style??? And it’s all reliant on the dipshits I meet in day-to-day life??? I’m either shooting myself or shooting up, fuck this”
I lost that first attitude when Trump won the first time.
And even when I’m around people who ostensibly share my political views I still feel like an outsider for a bevy of other reasons. “Did you see that funny commercial?”
“No I don’t see any commercials. Ever. “
“Oh man the halftime show!”
“Didn’t see that either.”
If my biology didn’t make a persuasive argument I’d swear I wasn’t human.
-
The country doesn’t want the change we want.
Of course not. Most of them are comfortable enough as-is. Most people don’t have a strong political philosophy - they’re just trying to maintain what they have, and maybe find a way to have a bit more.
Of course not. Most of them are comfortable enough as-is.
Don’t really think comfort has much to do with it. Revolutionary behavior tends to spill out from relatively privileged demographics, and suffering demographics can suffer seemingly infinitely without hitting some point of discomfort where revolution occurs.
Democrats do anything but take accountability for their mistakes any% Speedrun challenge (impossible).
Jokes aside at what point do you stop pointing the finger at everyone else and recognize that you just fucked up? Political parties aren’t owed votes. They have to earn votes.
The Democrats failed to earn enough votes against Trump TWICE.
I don’t even wanna hear some shit about it being a rigged election or anything. The right was screaming about 2020 being rigged for 4 years and y’all kept telling them it was ridiculous and they just need to suck it up because they lost.
The Democrats will lose again in 2028 if they do not make serious changes up and down their party.
Jokes aside at what point do you stop pointing the finger at everyone else and recognize that you just fucked up? Political parties aren’t owed votes. They have to earn votes.
Thanks, I love hearing that my existence has to be earned.
Your existence? The fuck are you talking about?
I’m talking about the stupid meme and Democrats once again pointing fingers everywhere else instead of looking in a fuckin mirror.
If you (the Democrats) want to win a political race you have earn the votes from the people. They have failed to do so now multiple times.
At some point you can’t keep pointing the finger elsewhere and you have to accept that you didn’t convince enough people that you were the better option.
They need to take some responsibility instead of playing professional victims all the damn time. I’m sick of it.
Your existence? The fuck are you talking about?
You miss the whole fascist shebang that got setup this past month or so? We’re looking at starving the poor and Healing-Through-‘Labor’ camps for the mentally ill. Our LGBT brothers and sisters are in even more danger.
If you (the Democrats) want to win a political race you have earn the votes from the people. They have failed to do so now multiple times.
Yeah, if our thinking is just that this is team sports, or a popularity contest, that’s valid.
It’s not.
Talking about how it’s the Dem party’s fault for not ‘earning’ votes ignores that elections are matters in which the people decide their own governance. “The Dems aren’t flashy enough, I’m going to let minorities get murdered” is a choice made by every eligible voter who protest-voted or didn’t vote - and, of course, every fascist bootlicker who voted GOP. And those are the only votes which were available to be ‘earned’.
The Dems lost. The Dems are also immensely incompetent, and most of the party’s leaders at this point should probably be sent to the career-equivalent of a guillotine. But the core reason the Dems lost is because the American electorate consists of a supermajority of fascists, and fascist supporters.
You can try to excuse the electorate by accusing the Dems of pointing the finger at ‘everyone else’, but ‘everyone else’ literally is culpable in this fucking disaster as well.
They need to take some responsibility instead of playing professional victims all the damn time. I’m sick of it.
Deeply ironic.
The Dems lost. The Dems are also immensely incompetent, and most of the party’s leaders at this point should probably be sent to the career-equivalent of a guillotine. But the core reason the Dems lost is because the American electorate consists of a supermajority of fascists, and fascist supporters.
You were so close to getting the point and then you went and fucked it up right at the end.
I hate to break it to you but the “supermajority” of Americans are not fascists. They are simply sick of the Democrats bullshit.
I hate to break it to you but the “supermajority” of Americans are not fascists. They are simply sick of the Democrats bullshit.
“We’re sick of gutless politicians proposing moderate policy in-line with what their base continually elects in the primaries, so we’re going to give fascists the go-ahead to kill minorities.”
Very responsible citizenship. Very moral behavior. Not fascist at all. Thanks bunches.
Hey I didn’t vote for the Cheeto either. I’m just not sitting here bitching about why the Dems lost by blaming everything else except the Democratic party themselves.
Hey I didn’t vote for the Cheeto either.
I hope by that you mean that you voted for the only other viable option, because otherwise, that’s a vote for fascism in our system.
I’m just not sitting here bitching about why the Dems lost by blaming everything else except the Democratic party themselves.
Man, all up and down Lemmy the Dems have been blamed, both before and after the election results. The election happened. It’s over. The results are in. That means we have to square with the fact that, whatever the strengths or weaknesses, or the sins or stupidity, of the Dem Party, the result of the election was that a supermajority of the US population gave the green light to murder as many minorities as possible, and save as few as possible.
The Dems didn’t fumble a football. The Dems didn’t miss a layup shot. This wasn’t a game we ‘gave’ to the Democrats, our aristocratic overlords, to play on our behalf. It was an election, in which we, the electorate, cast our votes. The electorate, en masse - over 2/3s - said “The Dems haven’t earned my vote, so marginalized demographics can go get fucked.”
That’s what I said from the start, and you objected to.
The electorate doesn’t care about fascism - if the blue-colored circus isn’t entertaining enough, if the blue circus doesn’t ‘earn’ my existence, the electorate says I die. If the blue circus isn’t entertaining enough, the electorate says they don’t mind seeing fascism murder a few minorities. Maybe it’ll convince the blue circus to be more entertaining next time.
My existence has to be earned.
Well if listening to “the base” voting for moderate politics loses elections maybe they should stop doing that lol
Well if listening to “the base” voting for moderate politics loses elections maybe they should stop doing that lol
“Stop having primaries” is an interesting take.
I don’t always agree with your views on trans people, Pug, but sometimes you make a great point. Keep on fighting the good fight.
Hard agree
I’m talking about the stupid meme and Democrats once again pointing fingers everywhere else instead of looking in a fuckin mirror.
If you (the Democrats) want to win a political race you have earn the votes from the people.
Fuck that shit. With the stakes that high and threat to society that clear, even a bag of shit should have won against Trump. A bag of shit in the oval office wouldn’t do this, and that—not a flashy campaign—is all anyone would need to know to make a clear decision.
We fucked up. Fuck people. We got the government & leadership we deserve.
No, we didn’t lol. The Democrats did lol.
Blaming the democrats doesn’t absolve the people of responsibility. Contrary to what some may think, eligible voters can think & understand their choices. We’d seen his gimmick before & how he operates. Those who voted for him & those who didn’t vote against him did so regardless of the consequences while having every reason to know what that would mean. They’re as responsible as anyone.
No, I am not. But you can keep saying so if it makes you feel better to blame me instead of your leaders.
So, you’re not responsible for your choices? Are you a child or incapable to predict the consequences of your decisions?
You are right, a bag of shit should have won against Trump. But somehow the Democratic leadership was still able to mess that up. Next time, they should bring their A team to the table instead of the D team.
Jokes aside at what point do you stop pointing the finger at everyone else and recognize that you just fucked up?
Indeed. The democrats should recognise their mistakes, and so should the voters. Either one could have stopped this, but they both chose stubbornness.
As out-of-touch as George H.W. Bush looked marveling at the checkout scanner at a supermarket, that’s nothing compared to the people who think American voters by and of large sat down and thoughtfully compared the policy positions of all the candidates, gamed out the implications, and voted accordingly.
How can you say this after the news about the people who didn’t know Biden dropped out until election day? That had never heard of Project 2025? That didn’t know what tariffs are?
Choosing to be ignorant is a form of stubbornness
I don’t think so. That was our future on the line. Though they may have run a more effective social media campaign spinning their fake, populist bullshit stimulating Trump cultists out in Trump country, none of that should have mattered. Regardless of a weak opposing campaign & inflation, we fucked up by not recognizing an existential threat & voting against it anyway. That’s just downright stupid of us.
Now is exactly the right time to criticize the dems, make them step up their game. Would be better 4 years ago, but here we are.
Www.indivisible.org is doing some good work getting on democratic “leaders” asses to do something. They also have something called the Payback Project. They are making a public list of all of those who do nothing during this administration and will use funds to buy ads during election time showing what that specific Democrat did or didn’t do.
The Dems are a minority in both the House and the Senate at the moment, they’re literally powerless.
The best time to criticize them would have been over the last two years, when they actually could have done something about the mess.The Republicans seem to be able to stop a lot of things, especially if the opposing party not only doesn’t control every branch of government, but doesn’t have a 60+ majority of the senate with a comfortable margin to write off the {Manchins, Sinemas, Libermans, etc.}. But now suddenly a minority party can’t stop their opponents from doing things, even if it is blatantly unconstitutional? It seems like the Democrats are never playing to win.
In reality, the Democrats want this all to continue, because if Trump fucks things up enough and destroys things enough, the Democrats only appeal of “we aren’t the Republicans” can for once, become a winning strategy in 2026/2028.
That’s the key “stops a lot of things”. The way that Congress is structured makes it pretty easy to stop things since there are many choke points. Notice that republicans aren’t really trying to “do things” in Congress?
The current issues and actions are being driven by the executive branch where they’re ignoring the law and constitution . Being in the minority in Congress means that Dems can’t trigger investigations or much of anything to formally push back unless they’re joined by some republicans.
I’ll agree that they could make more noise and should block things up more than they’re doing presently, but these actions wouldn’t really stop or significantly slow any of this.
I’m sick of the green lanterism that gets trotted out to suggest that they’re not stopping things because they don’t want to. Voters didn’t give them power in the last election, so we’re working from a position of weakness.
There are still veto points and lawsuits to be made. Along with the more vocal opposition that you admit that they should engage in. It is neither that they could perfectly stop everything, but that they could actually start trying. The Democrats decided that they should sit back because if Trump fucks things up enough, they will have an easy time in 2026/2028, without changing their usual platform of “We are not the Republicans, we will give you nothing else”.
Being in the minority never stopped the republicans. There are things the democrats can do to obstruct.
Now is a great time to criticize them for their past actions and current attitudes, but a poor time to expect protection from them, on account of their minority position in the government.
I expect them to do at least as well as the GOP from the minority position. If they can’t do that, what right do they have to expect our votes?
but a poor time to expect protection from them
Where did this “protection” idea come from?
No one expects “protection”, we expect them to lift a finger to do the job they were sent to washington to do, or get the eff out of the way and let someone with a spine and some morals get it done. The only one out there doing the job is sanders and the progressives. All the other dems only came together to vote for tougher laws on illegal video streaming sites, and now they are pushing to gut peoples protection to say what they want online.
and back in jan: https://politics.slashdot.org/story/25/01/30/028201/democrat-teams-up-with-movie-industry-to-propose-website-blocking-law
They are doing nothing but what their donors want, as usual. They learned nothing and continue to do nothing.
No one expects “protection”, we expect them to lift a finger to do the job they were sent to washington to do,
What were they sent to Washington to do, again?
Dont make me pull out school house rock videos of how our supposed “democracy” works.
They were sent to Washington to participate in the legislature. I could go for several more details here, but the core of it comes down to - they were sent to Washington to protect the rights and interests of their constituents through the passage and restriction of laws.
ie ‘protection’.
Totally agree “but here we are”, but a better time would be 1992
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerikaanse_presidentsverkiezingen_1992
If you’ve got a time machine, feel free.
Second highest voter turn out for a presidential election in US history.
Clearly its the voters fault…
Also why in the broken nation is the assumption that if more people showed up they would have voted like you? I never got this concept. Please spend more effort being an opposition/resistance and less being poor losers.
Millions of people who voted for Biden in 2020 didn’t show up to vote for Harris in 2024.
Trump’s numbers barely changed at all between the two.
Yes, and that does not imply what the democrats think it does.
It doesn’t imply anything, it’s a fact that Voters chose fascism and now they’re facing the consequences.
Yes, we all are. I am just sick of this pretending they did not.
And I can’t say that I blame them. Biden’s presidency… or his campaign… or Harris’ campaign…
It was a shit-show all the way through. Maybe next time the Democrats should try catering to their voter base.
And I can’t say that I blame them.
“I know fascism is bad, but I understand allowing it - I mean, look how uninspired the other option was!”
Yeah, this is exactly why we’re in this position.
14 Million primary voters picked Biden in 2024.
He won the primary, as has every incumbent for many many decades.
We failed them, not the other way around.
What primary? The democrats did everything they could to shut down primaries. From refusing to run other candidates to outright cancelling votes.
I literally just told you the 2024 primaries. Are you an AI?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
There were 7 states holding their primary before Super Tuesday where Biden won 15 states all at once. Some states he won with a margin over 90%.
Oh yeah it was a real primary with real candidates. I mean the second place guy “Uncommitted” nearly had it in the bag…
Lack of candidates is hardly a fault. What did you expect, Jill Stein?
Oh yeah and what a race. The competition sure was… breathing. Probably.
Same as any other incumbent race.
A rigged primary, where the voters weren’t really given a choice. Voters were very vocal that they didn’t want him to run again, and the leadership openly ignored them. Next time, maybe the leadership should listen to the base that they claim they represent.
If he was winning primaries with 90% then clearly voters weren’t vocal about that at all. The vocals ones we saw in media didn’t properly represent the voters.
But when statistics showed Kamala Harris had a better chance at victory, he did drop out and gave his ticket, that he won fairly in a Primary Election, to her, his vice president.
Voters were saying it very loudly, the Democratic leadership just ignored them. Polls were very clear that nobody wanted either of them to run, and they both had a low approval ratings. The ticket wasn’t his to give, it was up to the voters. The Democrats chose to skip the voters, so the voters abandoned them.
I don’t see why anyone would expect voters to stick with a party that treats it’s base so disrespectfully.
Polls? I’ve got the ultimate form of poll for you. A primary election, which he won.
I still think there’s a good chance he could have won it the second time because there are enough sexist and racist democrats who stayed home who could have made a difference.
Dems will do anything to not accept responsibility for fumbling 12 years in office since 2000.
I hate the us government as much as the next invasion target, but this stupid tribalism has gotten out of hand. Was this the inevitable result of a two party system (a joke pretending to be a democracy)? Maybe, but the very idea that I am expected to “pick a side” even as a outsider and that once I do half of the us will write me off is laughable.
America, you did this. Stop trying to make it someone else’s fault.
If we are to assume that there was voting suppression, do something about it!
If we are to assume that there was voting fraud, do something about it!
If we are to assume that the majority of americans did not want the current administration, then do something about it!
This should be a no brainier if you have the majority of americans against this then you should have the will and ability to do something about it.
But you clearly don’t have the majority of your nations people behind you in this, most likely don’t care enough (a side effect of that two party system) or and this might shock you, that the majority of americans are really just that awful and want to watch the free world burn.Do what???
That’s the issue. All these non Americans keep saying “Do something” and they can’t even think of anything to do either.
Our government has stopped listening to us. I vote, ai write my politicians, I canvassed for candidates. None of it works anymore. None of it. We hold no sway outside of force. With force were so woefully outclassed it’s not even a realistic idea.
We hold no sway outside of force.
Hmmmmmmm, what could the non-americans imply that we can not write out without risking a ban?
It is pathetic that among high voter suppression (due to Republican motions) the Democrats blame the people for not voting, instead of blaming voter suppression, or any of the other decades worth of inaction by Democrats to foresee and prepare for this. They have a two party system, it’s not like the Republicans were a complete surprise
Its just wild looking into this from outside. If the election was rigged, then it would have fallen on the party that was in power at the time to manage right? Well what side of the two party system was in then? After so many years watching the US ratchet more and more into crazy town I just can not understand how people can not put blame on one half of what is no longer a democracy (maybe a Diarchy?).
Then there is the assumption that if more people showed up to vote the results would change. This seems to make the assumption that the democrats are the default choice (even if the lesser evil, making the concept of choice a joke) and that the people who are clearly angry, burnt out and did not think they mattered would not want to see the world burn.
and that the people who are clearly angry, burnt out and did not think they mattered would not want to see the world burn.
Well, then they can see the world burn. Surely there’s no reason to complain - this is what they wanted.
I don’t think they are the ones complaining, yet.
Second highest by sheer number, eighth by percent of voting eligible population.
From your source:
Why did you cut out the VEP? The very next column…
it stands for Voting Eligible Population by the way.
Edit, for those not willing to click a link here is the picture not cut off:
Notice how there are 3 measurements of voter turn out? Two of which show this to have been the second highest turn out? Now does this show a larger then there should be level of disenfranchisement? Yes, so fix that!
I cut off the VEP because I mistook the voting age population for the voting eligible population and now that you pointed that out (thank you by the way) I’m looking into why there’s such a difference between those two numbers.
Its people that have lost the right/ability to vote. Most likely due to the terrible american for profit prison system.
It’s also a metric that isn’t included with the numbers before 1984 which makes it difficult to use as a comparison.
It was not included before it was invented, it was also not needed as the level of voter disenfranchisement was not yet an issue. It is now the standard metric (since you guys have so many people that are barred from voting).
In the chart I originally posted see how six of the eight don’t have VEP?
Explains why when you use it, it goes from eighth to second.
Voter turnout being high is great for non-republicans.
I’m just gonna leave this here: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
There is evidence to support widespread vote suppression is occurring by “vigilantes” knocking people off the voter registry amongst other tactics
A third of the eligible voters didn’t vote. If they had, this tiny marginal bullshit wouldn’t matter.
Separate reply, this isn’t tiny marginal bullshit, we’re talking millions of votes
I don’t disagree, but not like my preferred candidate was on the ballot, I still voted tho…
Assuming that the third would be biased toward one candidate rather than being probably just as evenly divided as those that did vote.
We know the restrictive voting laws were biased. We do not know that the “didn’t bother to vote” has the same bias.
Don’t stop at suppression when it was full manipulation.
This is bullshit and this group is likely just out there to cash in on the election. What they claim to be suspicious patterns is just basic statistics.
If machines have a higher number of votes it is just to be expected that the spread of the results get smaller and towards the end result. The larger the sample size, the smaller the spread.
And the early voting machines had up to 250 votes per machine, whereas the election day machines only had around 125. At least in the graphics this group used in their own report. If you scale the graphic of the early machines only until 125 votes per machine they look similar.
Also on election day there were about 3000 machines as opposed to 1000. And here another basic truth comes up. If you repeat a sampling more often, the distribution of results becomes more even.
These guys are just describing basic statistic effects and claiming them to be suspicious, probably to collect donations and run with the money. Also their website is dubious about who they are exactly and what their credentials are.
There is legitimate criticisms and leads to investigate, but these guys are not one of them.
This was my gut feeling as well, not to mention it’s a much less clear picture then what I posted.
I do want to add that I find it suspicious given Republicans frequently accuse the other side of doing what they either are actively doing, or plan to do, their continual pushing on voting being insecure and particularly mail in voting and early voting being particularly mabipulatable in their own words does make it seem more likely to me there could have been more shenanigans, not to mention that it was specifically mentioned that there were several breaches to two of the election systems in the years leading up to 2024… Very sus.
I mean, they fucking admit it but whatever.
i am not saying that there is no credible reasons to investigate if the election was done properly. however the “electiontruth” people do not provide any credible information for that. Also the video you linked does not seem to be about making a calm and proper argument, but rather to rile people up.
Again it is not impossible, that there have been irregularities, but it is something that needs to be analyzed and discussed properly. This is irrespective from needing to resist the Trump government, as it is a bunch of cirminals.
Beyond the statistical realities that Saleh mention, the general point about drop-off is also weird.
It implies that the GOP cheated, but declined to cheat in down ballot. This seems odd, if they had the will and capability to just change the votes, why would they skip the down ballot elections? Further another similar site pointed out the drop-off was uneven, that it was suspiciously higher in Montana than Michigan. To imply the GOP cheated more in Montana? When your theory indicates a bigger effort to cheat in a safe state than a swing state, then there’s something going on.
The drop-off effect is easily explained by the reality that people weren’t voting for a Republican or a Democrat, they were voting for or against Trump. That mindset is wholly separate from Republican v. Democrat. It’s almost an Apples v. Oranges to try to compare a race with Trump to it to any other race (which is why the GOP is desperate to run him again, because even they don’t understand how he engages the base and he is a useful idiot).
I’m glad to see it investigated and I wish that the voting populace didn’t do what they did (and accept that without the suppression, the results might have gone the other way). However I don’t think fraud has been proven in any significant degree.
Perhaps the democrats should emphasize vote in person on election day if at all possible, and mail-in is a last resort, rather than saying “voting is easy, just mail it in”. It’s obvious that they are having great success in discarding legitimate mail-in ballots the way they see fit.
Good potential* evidence to add to the pile, thank you for bringing it up!
Edit: *
Welp, that settles it.
The crowd that didn’t vote for Kamala have mysteriously disappeared from their soapbox and went into hiding…
Repeatedly banning people with different viewpoints will do that. You chose to become an echo chamber.
Horseshit. They got what they wanted and then shut up about it.
Nope, just because you stopped seeing them in your walled garden doesn’t mean they aren’t there. They’re just treating you the same as Trump supporters because they know what side liberals were in in Nazi Germany.
But hey, at least they elected you to represent them in these comment sections! Hope the pay is good. Don’t look like fun to me.
Sorry I’m out of the loop.
Who got banned for different viewpoints?
Look at the modlog for . world, Ctrl f “troll” for the last 6 months.
I’m lazy can you help out and give me one or two examples?
Nope, you guys appointed Hitler again to stop the commies and leftists. Stop being a lazy liberal.
That was a lot of words to say you can’t.
You’re a weird flyingsquid alt.
Da.
Hi I voted for Stein
Well least you voted. If only 30 mill more decided to vote even third party it would have shook things up. They didn’t even care enough about country to do that.
I seeing us everywhere. I’m not sure what your talking about
Right right, it’s a neat graphic, but it kind of ignores people who remember multiple presidential elections.
If we vote Democrat and then the Democrats don’t do jack s*** then what surprise is it that people stay home next time? Obama was weak. Biden was weak. They could have pushed policies that would benefit the average American citizen, and they mostly didn’t. The party threw us away, not the other way around.
And I still think people should vote, but you don’t get to blame them for the Democrats being s*****.
