Come to Germany! We do everything like the US, but with a 4 year delay and 10% less intense! Relive your memories of when your homeland went down the drain!
I feel like the 4 year delay is gonna hit it’s threshold and start surpassing the US. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like Germany has the populous to shift very quickly. Now that the US is full Fascism I feel like Germany just got the acceleration card equipped. Which will also influence the rest of the west and Americans to hit the “kill all Muslims” button as hard as they can.
Starting with “Hamas/Palestine/Antisemitism” as the justification.
It’s happened before. A lot of the allies in ww2 were nazi-curious before their country was invaded. They were getting fairly popular in the US especially, holding large rallies and captivating the hearts of several of our captains of industry. I won’t go into the details.
Some states will go down the path of fascism until they pass the point of no return, and the state that existed before is well and truly dead. When they’re done warring against their own minorities they’ll attempt to expand to neighboring states because they need to justify their own existence.
Some states will follow the path of fascism until they see their peers further down the path either trapped in the turmoils of war and genocide, or threatening war and genocide on themselves or their close allies, then they turn around out of fear of the new common enemy. Like a sailor trapped by a sirens call only snapping out of it when the sailor in front of them gets devoured.
The reaction to Brexit in the rest of the EU - where almost from one month to the next people’s support for the idea of leaving the EU crashed to less than half as much as shown in various polls at the time - gives me hope that what Trump is doing in America is actually crushing the chances of his ideology in the rest of the World.
This seems to already be happenning in Canada (we will know for sure once the result of their upcoming elections is out).
In summary, I think there is good reason to hope that the result in the rest of the World of the Fascist Far-Right taking over a high-profile country like the US will be either the crushing of the Far-Right or it very explicitly distancing itself from the kind of ideology espoused by Trump - in other words, that America, just like Britan with Brexit, is really and unwittingly taking one for the rest of us.
As a pretty terrified American, I actually take some comfort in this idea. Please learn from us. I just hope if things get that far here, that the rest of you will have some empathy for those of us who did not want this. So many comments from people in other countries are blaming every American for this. Seeing so many of those comments (mostly on Reddit) has been the second scariest part of all of this for me. I’m used to being hated in the abstract for being an American, but to think that if the fascists here get their way people like me have no hope of escape is too much to think about
If there’s any consolation, I personally support asylum for Americans escaping political persecution for my country, I just hope that our government will act quickly enough for it, and the right not getting in the way
I expect a lot of, especially queer, people trying to escape, and I really hope we get something in place before it’s too late
As a white American, I was just talking about this relatively new experience to me, and not in any way meaning to co-opt or undermine other people’s objectively worse experiences, by the way. Just wanted to throw that out there.
At the same time, while we might disparage Russia or China, to me that’s always meant the government, not literally the people. I hate that I probably took for granted that at least most other people thought the same way I did.
Too many people often just handwave that civilians should die rebelling against their government if it is bad. It is never that simple, it is not as simple as they voted bad and didn’t rebel, so we have an excuse to exterminate them all.
We should do the same as was done with Germany: trial those most responsible in Nuremberg, rehabilitate the rest. Germany turned out to be a wonderful, anti-nazi country, with hard workers that produced high-quality products. Imagine if they where just nuked instead?
These are still capitalist countries and thus the incentive for fascism still remains even if it gets delayed a bit.
The US is the largest, most dangerous military superpower the world has ever seen and it has shown time and time again that it’s willing to use that might to bully other nations into economic submission. No country is really safe if it decides to start going after them. The US hasn’t always won these wars, but even when it fails like in Vietnam or Korea, it does enough damage on the way out to cause massive destruction and suffering which has long lasting consequences. I seriously doubt the rest of the world is just gonna get to sit this one out and watch America self destruct.
For 1., also don’t forget that major labour movements spring up during and after WW2, it’s hard to say how much of a repeat that will be this time around, but the potential is there
And 2., I agree, I am concerned myself, especially with nukes these days
But on the other hand, economy, and reliance on globalized production chains, is so much more central to the core of a nation these days. It’s not possible to just produce everything locally anymore, not like it was during WW2, anyway. everything is too hyper specialized for that now
So there is the potential that, if the US really does something very stupid and gets a complete embargo from the rest of the west, they’re just going to get completely fucked (and so will the rest of the west, but you know). So the amount of damage they end up being able to do might end up being limited
Of course, China would benefit massively from this, as they do actually go heavy on self-sufficiency, and then there’s the risk of Russia exploiting this as well, but the silver lining is that the US simply might collapse before it manages to do some real damage
In the end, I think the future of how the world will look like will be up to China. I really really hope that they end up having a massive democratic movement for the sake of the world, but we’ll see. At least China so far still seems like a rational actor on the world stage, although still ruthless and self-serving, of course
I would say that the politically widespread “unwavering support” for a nation very overtly because of their dominant ethnicity, including whilst they’re commiting a Genocide along ethnic lines themselves (the kind of thing one would naivelly expect Germans to be especially disgusted at), proved beyond any doubt that Racism in Germany is alive & well all across the political spectrum, from the supposed “left” of the Greens all the way to the far-right.
(AfD really is just the same mindset with the addition of “If it’s good to unwaveringly support them no matter what they do, then it’s also good for us”)
Sadly whilst the symbols were forbidden, the way of thinking about other human beings (of seeing people as members of ethnicities and judging and treating them differently depending on ethnicity) that was the foundation for Nazism never actually died in Germany, they just changed who the ubermenschen and untermenschen are and don’t actually say those words out loud.
Ah, the good old sociopath-style argument that because there is Racism everywhere then people shouldn’t complain about the level of Racism in some places approaching that of the Nazis.
It’s the Racist variant of the good old “we’re better than North Korea” argument to defend Capitalist excesses.
If you go up to my original post, it was in response to somebody talking about German politics in the context of the Israeli Genocide.
As one of only a handful of nations who kept on “unwaveringly supporting” Israel with weapons even as the Genocide became more and more extreme and obvious beyond deniability, Germany definitely needs to be heavily criticized for that support and the underlying view of other human beings that is required for people to say - as Sholz did - “We unwaveringly support the Jewish Nation” (note the ethnicity very explicitly) as justification to keep sending weapons to Israel even after they had already murdered over 40,000 civilians including a list of babies 1 year old or less which was 17 pages long.
This isn’t the “police taking less seriously reports of being assaulted from victims of certain ethnicities than from other ethnicities” level of Racism far too common in many countries, this is the “we’ll keep on sending weapons to people who have murdered thousands of babies because we support the race of the murderers” level of Racism - the level of evil of unfairly treating a minority is a whole different scale from the level of evil of sending weapons to baby mass murderers because you support their race.
Absolutely, the likes of the US and UK, for example, are just as appallingly and disgustingly Racist.
However I myself did not expect this from Germany, both because I had a much much better opinion of Germans (I even lived there for 3 months) and because having in the past done horrible things (Nazism, the Holocaust) exactly because of extreme Racism and spent the time since remembering it and claiming “Never again”, it turned out that the “Never again” of most German politicians was the race-limited version “Never again shall we Germans do this to Jews” rather than the Humanist version of “Never again shall this happen”.
It’s hard for me to convey just how profoundly disappointing I am with Germany in addition to how disgusted I am with it and other nations who kept supporting baby mass murderers with weapons to kill more babies overtly because they support the race of the murderers.
So yeah, I totally agree with
I feel like Germany just got the acceleration card equipped
from the poster I was responding to, because until recently Germany hadn’t displayed anywhere near the levels of Racism required to, because of the race of the murderers, support baby mass murderers with weapons that will be used to murder more babies.
Come to Germany! We do everything like the US, but with a 4 year delay and 10% less intense! Relive your memories of when your homeland went down the drain!
I feel like the 4 year delay is gonna hit it’s threshold and start surpassing the US. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like Germany has the populous to shift very quickly. Now that the US is full Fascism I feel like Germany just got the acceleration card equipped. Which will also influence the rest of the west and Americans to hit the “kill all Muslims” button as hard as they can.
Starting with “Hamas/Palestine/Antisemitism” as the justification.
I still have the hope that people see the trainwreck the US is now and go “oh shit”, and try to avoid it
It’s happened before. A lot of the allies in ww2 were nazi-curious before their country was invaded. They were getting fairly popular in the US especially, holding large rallies and captivating the hearts of several of our captains of industry. I won’t go into the details.
Some states will go down the path of fascism until they pass the point of no return, and the state that existed before is well and truly dead. When they’re done warring against their own minorities they’ll attempt to expand to neighboring states because they need to justify their own existence.
Some states will follow the path of fascism until they see their peers further down the path either trapped in the turmoils of war and genocide, or threatening war and genocide on themselves or their close allies, then they turn around out of fear of the new common enemy. Like a sailor trapped by a sirens call only snapping out of it when the sailor in front of them gets devoured.
The reaction to Brexit in the rest of the EU - where almost from one month to the next people’s support for the idea of leaving the EU crashed to less than half as much as shown in various polls at the time - gives me hope that what Trump is doing in America is actually crushing the chances of his ideology in the rest of the World.
This seems to already be happenning in Canada (we will know for sure once the result of their upcoming elections is out).
In summary, I think there is good reason to hope that the result in the rest of the World of the Fascist Far-Right taking over a high-profile country like the US will be either the crushing of the Far-Right or it very explicitly distancing itself from the kind of ideology espoused by Trump - in other words, that America, just like Britan with Brexit, is really and unwittingly taking one for the rest of us.
As a pretty terrified American, I actually take some comfort in this idea. Please learn from us. I just hope if things get that far here, that the rest of you will have some empathy for those of us who did not want this. So many comments from people in other countries are blaming every American for this. Seeing so many of those comments (mostly on Reddit) has been the second scariest part of all of this for me. I’m used to being hated in the abstract for being an American, but to think that if the fascists here get their way people like me have no hope of escape is too much to think about
If there’s any consolation, I personally support asylum for Americans escaping political persecution for my country, I just hope that our government will act quickly enough for it, and the right not getting in the way
I expect a lot of, especially queer, people trying to escape, and I really hope we get something in place before it’s too late
Welcome to our world. I remember the hate I had to put up with, just for being Serbian. Finally, someone else understands.
As a white American, I was just talking about this relatively new experience to me, and not in any way meaning to co-opt or undermine other people’s objectively worse experiences, by the way. Just wanted to throw that out there.
At the same time, while we might disparage Russia or China, to me that’s always meant the government, not literally the people. I hate that I probably took for granted that at least most other people thought the same way I did.
Too many people often just handwave that civilians should die rebelling against their government if it is bad. It is never that simple, it is not as simple as they voted bad and didn’t rebel, so we have an excuse to exterminate them all.
We should do the same as was done with Germany: trial those most responsible in Nuremberg, rehabilitate the rest. Germany turned out to be a wonderful, anti-nazi country, with hard workers that produced high-quality products. Imagine if they where just nuked instead?
I have less hope for two reasons:
These are still capitalist countries and thus the incentive for fascism still remains even if it gets delayed a bit.
The US is the largest, most dangerous military superpower the world has ever seen and it has shown time and time again that it’s willing to use that might to bully other nations into economic submission. No country is really safe if it decides to start going after them. The US hasn’t always won these wars, but even when it fails like in Vietnam or Korea, it does enough damage on the way out to cause massive destruction and suffering which has long lasting consequences. I seriously doubt the rest of the world is just gonna get to sit this one out and watch America self destruct.
For 1., also don’t forget that major labour movements spring up during and after WW2, it’s hard to say how much of a repeat that will be this time around, but the potential is there
And 2., I agree, I am concerned myself, especially with nukes these days
But on the other hand, economy, and reliance on globalized production chains, is so much more central to the core of a nation these days. It’s not possible to just produce everything locally anymore, not like it was during WW2, anyway. everything is too hyper specialized for that now
So there is the potential that, if the US really does something very stupid and gets a complete embargo from the rest of the west, they’re just going to get completely fucked (and so will the rest of the west, but you know). So the amount of damage they end up being able to do might end up being limited
Of course, China would benefit massively from this, as they do actually go heavy on self-sufficiency, and then there’s the risk of Russia exploiting this as well, but the silver lining is that the US simply might collapse before it manages to do some real damage
In the end, I think the future of how the world will look like will be up to China. I really really hope that they end up having a massive democratic movement for the sake of the world, but we’ll see. At least China so far still seems like a rational actor on the world stage, although still ruthless and self-serving, of course
Half the country is fighting to run towards the trainwreck…
I would say that the politically widespread “unwavering support” for a nation very overtly because of their dominant ethnicity, including whilst they’re commiting a Genocide along ethnic lines themselves (the kind of thing one would naivelly expect Germans to be especially disgusted at), proved beyond any doubt that Racism in Germany is alive & well all across the political spectrum, from the supposed “left” of the Greens all the way to the far-right.
(AfD really is just the same mindset with the addition of “If it’s good to unwaveringly support them no matter what they do, then it’s also good for us”)
Sadly whilst the symbols were forbidden, the way of thinking about other human beings (of seeing people as members of ethnicities and judging and treating them differently depending on ethnicity) that was the foundation for Nazism never actually died in Germany, they just changed who the ubermenschen and untermenschen are and don’t actually say those words out loud.
Where is this post-racism country where you live and are you taking applications?
Ah, the good old sociopath-style argument that because there is Racism everywhere then people shouldn’t complain about the level of Racism in some places approaching that of the Nazis.
It’s the Racist variant of the good old “we’re better than North Korea” argument to defend Capitalist excesses.
I’m not German and maybe I misread, but I took this as specifically singling out Germany
If you go up to my original post, it was in response to somebody talking about German politics in the context of the Israeli Genocide.
As one of only a handful of nations who kept on “unwaveringly supporting” Israel with weapons even as the Genocide became more and more extreme and obvious beyond deniability, Germany definitely needs to be heavily criticized for that support and the underlying view of other human beings that is required for people to say - as Sholz did - “We unwaveringly support the Jewish Nation” (note the ethnicity very explicitly) as justification to keep sending weapons to Israel even after they had already murdered over 40,000 civilians including a list of babies 1 year old or less which was 17 pages long.
This isn’t the “police taking less seriously reports of being assaulted from victims of certain ethnicities than from other ethnicities” level of Racism far too common in many countries, this is the “we’ll keep on sending weapons to people who have murdered thousands of babies because we support the race of the murderers” level of Racism - the level of evil of unfairly treating a minority is a whole different scale from the level of evil of sending weapons to baby mass murderers because you support their race.
Absolutely, the likes of the US and UK, for example, are just as appallingly and disgustingly Racist.
However I myself did not expect this from Germany, both because I had a much much better opinion of Germans (I even lived there for 3 months) and because having in the past done horrible things (Nazism, the Holocaust) exactly because of extreme Racism and spent the time since remembering it and claiming “Never again”, it turned out that the “Never again” of most German politicians was the race-limited version “Never again shall we Germans do this to Jews” rather than the Humanist version of “Never again shall this happen”.
It’s hard for me to convey just how profoundly disappointing I am with Germany in addition to how disgusted I am with it and other nations who kept supporting baby mass murderers with weapons to kill more babies overtly because they support the race of the murderers.
So yeah, I totally agree with
from the poster I was responding to, because until recently Germany hadn’t displayed anywhere near the levels of Racism required to, because of the race of the murderers, support baby mass murderers with weapons that will be used to murder more babies.