WASHINGTON (TND) — Dr.Jill Stein, who is a Green Party presidential candidate, has selected Professor Butch Ware as her vice-presidential running mate.
Butch Ware sounds like something I need an antivirus app to clean off my computer.
Unusual name, but probably not something we should be making fun of. Kinda lower than we should go, don’t ya think?
Wasn’t really making a political joke. Just anything-ware reminds me of bad computer stuff - malware,spyware, adware, ransomware…. I’m a geek with ADHD, it’s what I do 🤣
Fair enough! And like I said, it IS an unusual name for sure
How does she get to 270?
Can’t?
Oh then she’s a spoiler for trump to win then.
Simple as
Oh then she’s a spoiler for trump to win then.
Then maybe get a stronger Democrat candidate so you don’t have to worry about that person losing votes a third party.
Simple as
Could be the best Democratic candidate of all time and that would still happen. It’s silly.
If you want to do something productive and not shoot yourself in the foot, spend your time advocating for the abolition of FPTP and an alternative ranked voting system.
Could be the best Democratic candidate of all time and that would still happen. It’s silly.
Well, I think we should end the 2-party system, so not an issue for me.
The spoiler effect is position based, not strength based.
I don’t care about a spoiler effect. At all.
I don’t vote “against” who I’m afraid of winning. I vote “for” who I’d like to win. Not based on odds. Or fear.
If a party is concerned, then they should get a more popular candidate.
I don’t care if you don’t care.
If a party is concerned, then they should get a more popular candidate.
The spoiler effect is position based, not popularity based.
The “spoiler” effect argument assumes votes belong to the two major parties, but in reality, votes are earned by candidates who align with voters’ values.
Supporting a third party challenges the status quo, pushing major parties to address issues they might otherwise ignore, and reflects the true diversity of voter priorities.
So no, I don’t care. And for someone who doesn’t care that I don’t care, you seem to be pushing it really hard. I’m not voting for your candidate. And I won’t stop posting articles to this community. Accept it.
The “spoiler” effect argument assumes votes belong to the two major parties, but in reality, votes are earned by candidates who align with voters’ values.
No, it doesn’t. The spoiler effect is about how the introduction of new candidates can change the outcome of an election, such that a previous winner loses because of the proximity of another candidate. Here is an example of it:
Total voters: 765 The winner was favorable to 56% of voters lachlan - 427 emma - 338
Total voters: 765 The winner was favorable to 44% of voters emma - 338 lachlan - 312 omalley - 115pushing major parties to address issues they might otherwise ignore
But that never happens. The two main parties always ignore everybody except for what their establishment wants for the most part. The DNC didn’t learn from it’s lesson in 2016, it’s not going to learn from it’s lesson in 2024. And the RNC is obviously even worse at learning lessons.
And for someone who doesn’t care that I don’t care, you seem to be pushing it really hard.
You’re not the one I am trying to convince here.
I’m not voting for your candidate. And I won’t stop posting articles to this community. Accept it.
I do not care. I’m only here to disprove you wrong about your claims about the spoiler effect. You are wrong both on a mathematical level and a practical level.
And you and I have already talked about this. We’re done talking about it. I don’t believe in it, and that’s my opinion. You are free to feel the way you want. So you have proven nothing to me.
And if you continue this conversation with me, I will block you. Again.
I still think Cornel West is going to cut into her voters.
Maybe. But I don’t mind him being on the ballot, even tho I am not voting for him.
"This is truly a historic ticket bringing together a Jewish woman and Black Muslim man against genocide, endless war, climate collapse, and rampant injustice, and for an economy that works for working people, a livable future for our children, and an America and a world that works for all of us.”
Appeal to oppression olympians. An interesting strategy. Let’s see how this plays out.
I like what I know of him so far. But I don’t know a bunch about him just yet, since he was just announced. But on paper so far, I like him.
Having said that, I doubt very much it will sway anyone who wasn’t already going to vote Green anyway.
In regular times, maybe. The DNC abandoned the idea of incorporating third party policies ages ago.
I wish voting for this ticket could keep my conscious clean but that’s just not how reality works.
I support and totally respect your opinion on that.
But for me, variations of people/parties saying, “Oh, we need change, but not THIS election” or “NOW isn’t the time, it’s too important to try now…” etc, has been said for the last 50 years.
50 years!
So no, I’m done with the whole, “Not this time, next time tho!” line of thinking. I’m voting for who I want to vote for. Right now. And it feels awesome.
I’m with you but this late into the cycle for a general election really isn’t the time for it. The real work starts local then pushes up. Getting a mayor, state reps, etc paves the way for more desirable senators and eventually, a president.
I stopped voting third party for big ticket elections in 2016. My state has had margins within 10k and we’ve ended up with my worst nightmares as reps.
I’m with you bout This late into the cycle for a general election really isn’t the time for it.
Thanks. But I’m still voting for her. And I am especially happy with her VP pick.
But yeah, if you feel like you can’t vote for her in good conscience, then for sure vote for who works best for you. I totally support and respect that decision.
She forgot to mention how it was all brought together in the first place by a white male dictator in Russia.
No russians made Jill Stein run for president. lmao
I get that this is a strong ticket on paper, but it’s really not the time for this.
Voting for Stein when somebody would’ve otherwise voted Harris basically just hands support to the voter’s least liked candidate.
It’s a well-known phenomenon, see the Spoiler Effect.
Don’t worry about it, very few people will vote for this Russian stooge and those who do were never going to vote for Harris anyway.
Don’t worry about it, very few people will vote for this Russian stooge
So then, you have nothing to worry about. :)
Correct, she’s the last thing I’m worried about.
Good for you then. I’m glad my post didn’t make you angry, as it seems to have done with a lot of others recently.
Nah just makes you look foolish.
Nah just makes you look foolish.
Because I’m voting for someone that you are not voting for, right? Ok!
I get that this is a strong ticket on paper
Agreed.
And I’d say that the notion that a vote for a third party “dilutes” the vote is rooted in a fear-driven mentality rather than in democratic principles.
It assumes that votes are owned by the two major parties, which they are not. Our electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate, not just those of the dominant parties.
In the end, I personally refuse to be intimidated into voting against my conscience. Democracy thrives on diversity of thought.
You have to vote strategically. That is: with an eye to what your vote will actually DO.
Not voting, or voting third party in this election will directly contribute to the installation of a fascist dictator and the destruction of democracy.
Voting is not dating. You’re not trying to hook up with The ONE who is “perfect” for you.
Voting is public transport. You grab the one that’s going to get you closer to where you want to go.
You have to vote strategically. That is: with an eye to what your vote will actually DO.
I don’t “have” to do anything of the sort. I am 100 percent free to vote for whoever I want, for whatever reasons I want. Welcome to freedom, friend.
I respect and support your right to vote for whoever you want. And it’s not who I am voting for. We have a difference in opinion. And that’s ok. I promise.
If that’s how you feel, then why vote for a particular party at all?
Why not just write in whoever you most desire to be the president? There’s nothing against that, after all…
Voting is a fundamental American right, and every citizen has the right to vote for the candidate they believe in. The idea that supporting a third party is somehow working for Trump or any other major candidate is both historically inaccurate and logically flawed.
Throughout American history, third parties have played a crucial role in shaping political discourse and pushing important issues into the spotlight. The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and labor rights were all advanced by third parties before being adopted by the major parties.
By voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party, I’m supporting a platform that aligns with my values, particularly on issues like environmental sustainability, social justice, and democratic reform.
By supporting puppets you throw your voice away. Voting as a right isn’t being debated here and your desperate plea for “rights” shows how little you know of them.
When your only argument is “I have the right” you are confessing that you don’t really have a reason. You don’t know why… instead you are telling everyone that you don’t think you just act. Apparently because you just can… or because someone spoke a line and you felt so compelled.
By supporting puppets you throw your voice away.
First, I don’t belive she’s a puppet. Second, I am not throwing my voice away. I’m voting for who I want to be president. And right now, for me anyway, that’s Jill Stein.
When your only argument is “I have the right” you are confessing that you don’t really have a reason.
I have stated my reasons many many times in this community. Right now she is the candidate that best aligns with my values.
I support you voting for who you want, and I would expect that you would support me voting for who I want. As is our right.
Maybe the issue is what you want to accomplish not who you’re told “represents” that…
You can tell yourself that you don’t “believe” she’s a puppet… all while she sits with Putin, his puppets and soils the vote. At that point what will your “beliefs” accomplish? Without accomplishing shit what value does believing in an asshole accomplish?
You can tell yourself that you don’t “believe” she’s a puppet
Which is true. I don’t believe she’s a puppet. Listen, I get it. You don’t like her and you think she’s a russian puppet.
I don’t believe what you believe. It’s really, really that simple.
It’s not some vast conspiracy. It’s not some russian state troll farm trying to sway you.
I don’t believe what you believe.
I like her, I’m voting for her.
That’s it. It ain’t that deep, friend.
We get to vote for who we want. If I liked Vermin Supreme, who IS running for president again, by the way, then I’d vote for him.
And you could say, “Well I don’t believe he’s worthy cuz he wears a boot on his head,” but then if I actually thought he was worthy BECAUSE he wears a boot on his head, then that would be ok.
It’s ok that not everyone believes exactly the same way that you do or in the exact same stuff. That’s ok. I promise.
Okay, so to anyone who reads this exchange: I’m pretty sure this is a bot.
On top of it being a very botty response to my question, that didn’t even answer my question, they typed out three whole paragraphs with a thesis statement and conclusion, with some bold-face typing…in less than a minute. That’s fucking sketch.
But I’ll respond back at least once more:
Again, if you believe that the “electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate” and you don’t like voting “against your conscience”, then it seems like you value honest voting very highly.
But honest voting goes beyond parties. If you value voting honestly, then you should vote for the person you think is best suited for the presidency. It doesn’t have to be Jill Stein, it can be any of the other hundreds of millions of Americans, as a write-in.
What is your take on that?
Careful, accusing someone of being a bot is against community rules and this user has and will report any perceived rules infringement.
The response in question is a copy-pasted spiel they have employed before to several users - me included. Often repeated verbatim, and sometimes multiple times to the same person such as to me here and here (within minutes of each other).
I’m not sure of any rules being broken, but it doesn’t feel like good-faith organic discussion. Might just be able to skirt around the rules though.
Careful, accusing someone of being a bot is against community rules
This is true!
I’m not sure of any rules being broken, but it doesn’t feel like good-faith organic discussion.
Except I get asked and accused of the EXACT same things over and over. So of course my responses will match for the sake of brevity.
Especially the whole, “Jill Stein is a russian asset” one. I always have to post a link to the newsweek article rebutting that.
Fair enough, thanks for the background. And I didn’t know that was a rule, so thanks.
I did also respond to the user organically in the second part of my post, so hopefully my post stays within the rules.
Oh I have no reason to report anything in this thread. It’s just that some users can be very uncivil, which is against the rules.
You thought I was a bot and gave your reasons. And I replied to you telling why that assumption would be incorrect. That’s fine.
But I have had some very nasty, very personal, very uncivil responses. And I did have to report them.
And the mods removed them for the toxicity. And those users got REALLY mad about it. One even sent me DM’s that he would “follow me around, just to keep an eye on” me. So yeah, creepy stuff.
All because I posted political news story about the Green Party to this political news sub. lol
Okay, so to anyone who reads this exchange: I’m pretty sure this is a bot.
How am I bot? Feel free to look at my past posts and conversations. lol
If you value voting honestly, then you should vote for the person you think is best suited for the presidency.
I 100 percent agree. And I think that Jill Stein is best suited for the presidency right now. Also, voting for someone who is officially on the ballot gives the party more recognition, influence, and potential access to resources and ballot access in future elections, which wouldn’t happen with a write-in vote that doesn’t carry the same weight or visibility.
Now having said that, if a good socialist candidate is allowed on my state ballot, I may switch over, depending on who it was.
But I really, really like Stein’s pick for VP. So far. I mean, if something comes out or it’s uncovered that he’s done something wrong, I could change my mind.
Also, just because someone goes against the mainstream grain about who they vote for, doesn’t make them a bot. Just saying…
How am I bot? Feel free to look at my past posts and conversations. lol
My bad, I didn’t know you just had a copy-pasted snippet. That snippet didn’t feel like it answered my question at all, hence my suspicion.
Also, just because someone goes against the mainstream grain about who the vote for, doesn’t make them a bot. Just saying…
Again, that suspicion had nothing to do with your apparent views, it was entirely because it didn’t feel like you were responding to my question at all - it was a long, well-written, yet generic, almost immediate response.
But I am sorry for sounding accusatory.
Also, voting for someone who is officially on the ballot gives the party more recognition, influence, and potential access to resources and ballot access in future elections, which wouldn’t happen with a write-in vote that doesn’t carry the same weight or visibility.
I do generally agree with this sentiment, so don’t get me wrong on that. However, I see this is a strategic/practical consideration in who to vote for. I don’t see it as a valid consideration in an honest vote.
My point is this: it sounds like you are a principled voter, but one who’s not blind to strategic or practical considerations. That’s how I feel as well, but I value the spoiler effect very highly in my strategic/practical consideration. Fighting the political science inches us both closer to our least preferred candidate getting elected.
I wish that your energy of “Consider voting for Jill Stein” was instead put towards “fight for electoral reform, so we can all honestly vote for candidates like Jill Stein without fear”.
But I am sorry for sounding accusatory.
No need to be sorry at all. I took your comment within the spirit it was given. I wasn’t offend or upset at all. You had your suspicion, voiced it, and I gave my response. All good, friend!
However, I see this is a strategic/practical consideration in who to vote for.
Well, for me, it’s the person I believe in the most and who aligns with my views. Jill Stein fills in those blanks. I don’t care about “spoiler” voting. I vote for who I want.
If the American people choose someone else as president, regardless of who that is, I’m fine with the decision. We’re a democracy.
Almost half of the American people aren’t gonna vote for Harris. That’s what part of democracy is. Our personal favorite side doesn’t always win. Regardless of the political spectrum.
I wish that your energy of “Consider voting for Jill Stein” was instead put towards “fight for electoral reform, so we can all honestly vote for candidates like Jill Stein without fear”.
I put it towards both. I 100 percent agree with and fight for electoral form. The thing is that the 2 main parties never want that at the time that they are the winning candidates and in office.
How many years have Democrats had a chance to change it? How many years have Republican had a chance to change it?
Neither party has, nor wants to.
They aren’t getting my vote.
Also, I don’t have “fear” of any political party.
But any actual result of you voting 3rd party is to end up with a fascist president who has plainly stated his intent is to make sure you will never vote again.
But any actual result of you voting 3rd party is to end up with a fascist president
Then maybe your party should have a stronger candidate if you are that afraid of 3rd parties having an impact. People get to vote for who they want to, even if it’s not who YOU want. Welcome to democracy.
You’re ridiculously naive. We go to war, or the polls, with what we have. And if you don’t make the best use of the best candidate to get closer to what you’re actually in favor of, you’re a fool.
You’re ridiculously naive. We go to war, or the polls, with what we have.
Awww, thanks. And yes, we have what we have. And I like the Green Party candidates we have, so I’m voting for them.
And if you don’t make the best use of the best candidate to get closer to what you’re actually in favor of, you’re a fool.
I am!
Also it’s spelled “D E M O C R A C Y”.
Idiot.
Well, I can be an idiot sometimes. But this is more of “my fat fingers moving too fast as I reply” sorta thing. Thanks tho!
