Meanwhile in Germany:

  • Liška@feddit.de
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    You are aware that this is over 5 years old data (2017!) for the German electricity mix, right?

    Please don’t get me wrong, the scale up of renewable energy sources is certainly not going fast enough in Germany (thanks to our conservative government that ruled the country for 16 years until 2021!), but please argue this position using the real data for 2023 (57.7% renewables in the German electricity mix)!

    • Masimatutu@lemm.eeOP
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      You’re right, I’m sorry. I chose the picture because it was the first okay one I found in English. I’ll change it right away.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.world
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      Good for providing up to date data.

      But damn, Germany could have been 65% fossil free if they hadn’t closed the nuclear plants prematurely.

      Such a waste of carbon budget.

      Anyway, you’re probably going to have a conservative government again after this one. Hope you don’t become the big laggards.

      • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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        Noooooooo… The decision to get out of nuclear was made over ten years ago. It is done. The last three nuclear plants that shut down this and last year were not serviced, not licensed, had no fuel and no newly trained operators. Stop reviving this debate. What is the real crime here is that the conservative government did next to nothing to push renewables as an alternative. They were bought/lulled by cheap russian gas. Even now, conservative governments in the south and the east of the country refuse to build up renewable energy production for purely ideological reasons. Even if those decisions hurt their own economy.

        • idefix@sh.itjust.works
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          Sorry I still don’t get it: why not reviving this debate? It’s never too late to kick-off construction of new nuclear plants.

          • this_is_router@feddit.de
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            do you know how long it takes until a nuclear powerplant is planned and built?

            Until then renewables are 20x cheaper then nuclear power.

            the debate has gone one or the other way for years. the people don’t want nuclear power, only our conservative, corrupt parties want it and try to push it every few years; thankfully without any luck.

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              I know perfectly well that we’re talking about decades of planning, yeah. I still believe every country will need a mix of different energy sources on top of renewables. I think Germany is very short-sighted there.

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            Constructing new ones take waaaaaaaaaaay too long and is much more expensive than building equally power capable regenerative energy plants in a fraction of that time.

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            Germans and their anti-nuclear cult have convinced themselves of a lot of falsehoods. It’s impossible to argue.

            Germany is a small country (compared to the USA or China), which means they can easily trade with their neighbors. So, they will just overbuild renewables and trade for nuclear electricity with their neighbors, including us (Netherlands), but mostly Poland and France, which will build the most nuclear plants in the EU.

            That’s the plan we compromised in the EU.

            They pretend to be nuclear free and we go along with their delusion.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          The decision to get out of nuclear was made over ten years ago.

          Nope, at least over 20, in 2000. Quick overview:

          • Starting approximately with the 68 movement anti-nuclear sentiment began to become common, also tied up with opposition to stationing of nuclear warheads, the general peace movement, etc. Every single new nuclear plant was protested heavily, as such
          • By the 90s, it was clear that no new plants would be built: It was political suicide.
          • That then was made law in 2000, alongside with giving all existing reactors expiry dates, based on age and security record
          • Then a Merkel came along and gave extensions to the remaining reactors. She didn’t touch the ban on new construction.
          • Then Fukushima happened and she took back that extension.
          • Then Ukraine happened and the three last remaining reactors got a 4 1/2 month extension to help tiding over the whole no gas from Russia situation: Originally (as planned in 2000) they should have shut down on the 31st of December last year, they actually shut down 15th of April this year. Some politicians wanted more but the operators themselves were opposed as they were already winding down the plants, would have to do another round of maintenance and inspections, procure more fuel etc. It was an “either at least five more years or forget it” type of attitude.
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        If the approval process continues as it currently does and solar installations do not slow down massivly, by the end of the term the approved renewbales projects should bring Gemany above 80% renewables. Practically speaking that would be the coal exit done. Maybe not fully, but they would not matter much.

        As for the rest, the current plan for hydrogen power plants is currently being negotiated with the EU. The good news it looks like a deal has been reached and if the plans shown by the current government are implemented, that would basicly mean a full coal exit and the starategic storage question being answered.

        Basicly the current German government has passed laws for an estimated 64% redcution of emissions by 2030 compared to 1990. The current target is 65%. So with a bit of luck it will work out.

      • 342345@feddit.de
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        Yes, I see the advantage of CO2 neutrality, but:

        The amount of active Nuclear repository sites for spent nuclear fuel and high level waste is… underwhelming.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_geological_repository

        60 years time to find a suitable hole to drop the waste into and very limited success so far. Nobody wants it in the own backyard (even if it would be suited.).

        The other end of the chain (mining and enrichment) doesn’t look like an environmental success story either, or does it? Poisoned groundwater looks like an issue to me… also if it happens in Canada or Kazakhstan.

        The dots in between… One meltdown around every 20 years (worldwide) ? - the area here is just too densely populated to risk one here. They started to dismantle the first plant in Germany in 89 - still not done.

        Edit: in my eyes the cons (I just named a few of them) outweigh the advantages. I mean the co2- neutrality is a big plus, but is it enough to justify the risks and damages? Aren’t there better alternatives? Am I wrong? Please bring facts.

        Edit again: thinking further, for me the question to answer is not, either add more CO2 to the atmosphere or have (more) nuclear fission plants. It is the question, how to remove fossils from the energy mix without having to use nuclear fission. With the one extreme to only use what you have and its many backdraws.

      • SomeDude@feddit.de
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        Germany could be 84% fossil free if they didn’t have to run their neighbors electricity grids subsidize their neighbors.

      • Lotec4@feddit.de
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        Not true. One big problem in Germany is that the grid can’t handle all the electricity generated by renewables so they often shut them down. Something you can’t do with nuclear l. Since nuclear got of the grid it got more capacity for renewables hence the share jumped this year.

        • Gabu@lemmy.world
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          That’s not how that works, mate. Nuclear is the highest priority of energy generation because it’s ultra cheap to produce and completely stable (once you have the reactors built, that is). If Germany still had those power plants, they could’ve dumped fossil and kept renewables, all while investing in energy storage.

          • Domkat@feddit.de
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            Except that if you calculate the complete cost including building the plants it’s stupendously expensive compared to renewables even including energy storage.

            • Gabu@lemmy.world
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              Which is irrelevant, unless you’re representing a profit-seeking corporation (if that were the case, fuck off, then).

              • rchive@lemm.ee
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                I do like nuclear, but of course the costs matter regardless of profit seeking. If you have two options that are same benefit but one costs more, to go with that one is just wasteful.

                • Gabu@lemmy.world
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                  They’re not the same benefit. The cost of extracting the materials for building renewable infrastructure is also immense, and that infrastructure must be completely swapped out every couple decades.

              • Domkat@feddit.de
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                Why is that irrelevant? These plants don’t run forever and are very expensive. You wouldn’t buy a car either that costs 15 million Euro, but in return just uses 1liter of diesel per 100km.

                • Gabu@lemmy.world
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                  These plants don’t run forever

                  Compared to solar and wind, they may as well last forever. We’re talking the difference between a century or more (nuclear) to complete exhaustion in just a couple decades (solar).

                  You wouldn’t buy a car either that costs[…]

                  I wouldn’t buy a car, period.

              • Nobsi@feddit.de
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                Nuclear costs double per kilowatt than solar tho??
                And Nuclear Plants are always built by for profit companies?

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            Nuclear is the highest priority of energy generation because it’s ultra cheap to produce and completely stable

            Not how the laws work in Germany: Renewables always have priority, they get to sell their production first, everyone else has to make do with the rest of the demand.

            • Gabu@lemmy.world
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              Renewables always have priority, they get to sell their production first

              Well, duh - intermittent generation means it makes the most sense to use while you can and wait on scalable power for when your load demands more power than is available. What I meant by that is that, of all scalable sources, you always go for Nuclear first.

        • Sentau@feddit.de
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          You can shut down or scale back energy/electricity produced from nuclear power plants as well by controlling the reaction rate. What would have been ideal was if nuclear had remained and the renewables took the production capacity share from fossil fuels

          • Lotec4@feddit.de
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            The German nuclear plants needed maintenance and refurbishment. Makes sense to invest an other billion to run it for 2 more years.

            The renewable energy share skyrocketed since the nuclear shutdown

    • gigachad@feddit.de
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      our conservative government that ruled the country for 16 years

      and the next 16 years, if everything works well Ü

      !please kill me!<

      • abbadon420@lemm.ee
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        The past 16 years have been conservative. The next 16 are for the far-right populists. There’s a difference.

    • SomeDude@feddit.de
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      And please don’t forget that Germany exports 26.3% of its electricity, while France imports 16.4% of it.

      So, Germany could cut 26.3% of its fossil fuel generation and go up to 84% renewables if countries like France wouldn’t depend on it that much.

      • DeserticDesert@lemmy.world
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        This year is an anomaly because nuclear production was low because some power plants had to shut down for maintenance. Germany typically imports power from France.

      • Syrc@lemmy.world
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        I love how we literally can’t do shit for ourselves here in Italy

      • pizzazz@lemmy.world
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        You keep repeating this point but renewable energy HAS to be exported when production is over the grid absorption rate. And coal plants have to be on continuously to guarantee baseload due to you moronic energy policies. You can’t bring up a (cherripicked for a single extraordinary year) graph you don’t understand and think it’s a gotcha. Not even mentioning the fact that France exports its energy too.

        • SomeDude@feddit.de
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          you moronic energy policies

          baseload

          Just found one of the morons responsible for that policy.

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    This is for sure fantastic, don’t get me wrong, but Europe has also exported some of its most polluting industries abroad. And then we also wag our finger at places like China and India.

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    Meanwhile Germany could cut more than 13% of its fossil electricity sources if it didn’t have to export electricity to “97% fossel-free” France. Overall, Germany exports 26.3% of its electricity.

    So it could go straight to 84% renewables if other countries weren’t dependent on its electricity.

    • lulztard@feddit.de
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      We have a deep-seated problem with corruption. Most politicians are just cockpuppets of the economy, and fossil fuel corporations have plenty of politicians stuck on their cocks. We were the forerunners of green energy, now we’re just cum-soaked whores.

      • OKRainbowKid@lemmy.sdf.org
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        And last year was an anomaly as well? Next year, the French nuclear plants will be repaired and their rivers will carry sufficient amounts of water again?

        • storcholus@feddit.de
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          Yes, exactly. It’s in the management PowerPoint for next year, so don’t worry about it

      • SomeDude@feddit.de
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        Germany typically imports power from France.

        2017 called, it wants to ask when anomalies become the normal.

      • Ummdustry@sh.itjust.works
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        I mean, isn’t that the core of the intermitancy argument for fossil fuels? Consumers wouldn’t be willing to accept a 100% renewable grid which only met demand 95% of the time.

        • nixcamic@lemmy.world
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          Perfect is the enemy of good. I’d rather have a 95% renewable grid than not even try. We can at the very least minimize fossil fuel use. It’s kinda silly to be doubling down on it in this day and age.

        • uis@lemmy.world
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          100% renewable requires opportunistic consumption, which is hard to do without eating people.

          Most of internet infrastructure is base load. It has to work 100% of time.

    • rchive@lemm.ee
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      if it didn’t have to export electricity to “97% fossel-free” France.

      I mean, it doesn’t HAVE to, does it? Presumably it’s a voluntary trade?

      Edit: Lol. Just like Reddit, get downvoted for asking a neutral question.

          • SomeDude@feddit.de
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            Don’t tell them that nuclear is by far the most expensive source of electricity in europe, no matter which costs you include

            while still producing an order of magnitude more CO2 than renewables

            or their heads will explode. And don’t ever ask them why no energy company in the world build a new nuclear reactor without subsidies, because the answer is: nuclear power is so ridiculously expensive that it isn’t financially profitable.

            Well, that is unless you let the taxpayers cover all the costs, then it’s perfect to reap the highest profits.

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              Its interesting they use “most recent generation of turbines” but don’t do that on nuclear. Also WISE is not a credible source. It’s an anti-nuclear organisation with guys like Mycle Schneider on board.

              Which source says 117g/kWh for nuclear? IPCC 2014 says 12g, UNECE 2020 about 5.1g (for EU28 nuclear).

              • paintbucketholder@lemmy.world
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                Its interesting they use “most recent generation of turbines” but don’t do that on nuclear.

                Feel free to tell us how much cheaper current nuclear power plants are than the ones that were built in the 70s and 80s.

                I’m sure there’s some great data from Flamanville, Olkiluoto or Hinkley Point, showing us all how cheap and affordable nuclear has become.

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                  If you thought just a little bit about what I wrote, you would know I was discussing the second graph.

                  Answer my points, not reinterpret them to fit your agenda.

            • ByGourou@sh.itjust.works
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              “Consequential cost to health and environnement” of nuclear if higher that coal ? Wtf, in what world ?

              Coal is more radioactive than nuclear plant, and that’s the lesser issue, between air polution, plant burning, and the effect of that much co2 being released, that can’t be true.

              Either it’s bullshit or I missunderstood the graph.

        • Sentau@feddit.de
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          They shutdown half of their reactors temporarily for maintenance in 2022. It was a one time thing. Your statement makes it seem like they do it every year.

        • rchive@lemm.ee
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          Maybe voluntary is the wrong word, but do they not get paid for the exports?

        • rchive@lemm.ee
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          My electricity provider shuts off my power if I don’t pay, obviously physical laws of electricity allow at least that much.

    • uis@lemmy.world
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      Exporting? Electricity doesn’t know about economics, it has its own laws.

    • ByGourou@sh.itjust.works
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      France also had to close a nuclear plant because of germany, it was close to the frontier so created political tensions with germany.
      But France also have a strong anti nuclear lobby, so it’s hard to build more nuclear sadly.

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    Damn all these German tears in the comments could be used for enough hydro electricity to actually make the German grid cleaner.

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      That wouldn’t be long lived, though, because when implemented in the current German fashion, they won’t be using salt water resistant equipment for cost cutting reasons and neglect all maintenance to cut even more costs. The tear powered hydroelectric plants will be rusted through and seized up in no time.

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        No it wouldn’t. It would never be built because the FDP would block it and Söder would refuse to have it built in Bavaria and Merz would say something about immigrants using up all our German salt on the tax payers dime all day long and Sahra Wagenknecht would mention that we wouldn’t need it if we were all good friends with Putin and the SPD would do nothing anyway and the AfD would blame the green party for not reactivating 45 year old reactors instead of building it,…

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          …different organisational levels of the Greens would endorse an oppose it at the same time, because it’s climate friendly but its building requires trimming a hedge of brambles on the neighbouring plot. A local citizens’ initiative against it would form due to widespread concerns about the plant’s working fluid containing the dangerous chemicals Dihydrogen Monoxide and Sodium Chloride, this initiative would run for the next council elections and win in a landslide. Then everyone would sue each other, and after about 5 to 10 years of legal battle, construction would be approved under strict additional conditions. By then, the cost would have doubled and the plant as planned and approved would be technologically obsolete and important components out of production, so there would be no other choice than repeating the entire planning and approval process all over.

      • Opafi@feddit.de
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        Electricity? Like, you use excess power to lift water and generate power from letting it descend when you need power. The latter is generated. Or am I not getting something?

        • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de
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          I know. It never generates more than it consumes so it has negative production overall. Or is this a real-time chart despite saying “past 12 months”?

            • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de
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              Yes, they are part of the water cycle, sometimes collecting water from a significant area, but usually not. This is the upper reservoir of our largest hydro storage plant:

              Dlouhé Stráně
              Rain is only collected over the area of the reservoir, and it would only fill up a few centimeters on a rainy day. In fact, the water evaporates quicker than that so a lake would never naturally form in this location.

              • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
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                Are all hydro storage like that though? It doesn’t seem too outlandish to think of a hydro storage plant that is also fed by a river

                • Ummdustry@sh.itjust.works
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                  I mean, at that point you would just call it a hydro power plant. Pretty much all hydropower doubles as storage due it’s flexibility, but typically don’t bother pumping water back up as it’s a waste of energy (as opposed to waiting for the river to do it’s work)

          • Opafi@feddit.de
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            I think the idea is that it only uses excess energy that would otherwise be wasted to fill it, so it kind of generates energy as it’s essentially filled for free.

            • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de
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              Yes, I know. Still, misleading: they show up negative in these power generation charts most of the time and this is supposed to be a cumulative one.

        • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de
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          I’ve been to a hydro storage plant and I know how it works. It stores power by pumping water into an upper reservoir when there is excess power and then letting it through turbines at peak demand. Overall, it achieves about 80% efficient energy storage whose capacity scales very cheaply as opposed to battery storage, and can respond to demand in a minute.

          However, it never generates power in the usual sense so it should show up negative on an overall chart. Is this a real time one? I don’t think so because it says “past 12 months”.

          • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            Could a dam lake be counted as hydro storage? That wouldn’t require energy spending to pump water up, but it can work as a “cache”?

            • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de
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              Nope, that’s just regular hydroelectric. All hydro power plants have valves to control the flow and they do adjust them on demand, for turbine/filter maintenance, and/or hydrological event control.

              Also, dam lake is a misnomer because lakes are naturally occurring. The correct term is reservoir. However, a reservoir can be natural and not dammed, like the oldest Czech pumped storage power plant at Černé jezero, which I visited. (The reservoir is a beautiful mountain lake and unfortunately, nature preservationists capped the water level changes to 4 cm, limiting capacity.)

              • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                Yeah I didn’t know the correct term for it in English, in Finnish it’s called “fakelake” or maybe more accurately “artificial lake”, but fakelake sounds better

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            I understand that it’s a net loss but maybe they’re only counting the power generated while unloading (which is still stupid but hey)

        • TJA!@sh.itjust.works
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          So you say they would also be at 100% wind energy if they only had more wind? And it has nothing to do with the miniscule amount of wind turbines?

          • buzziebee@lemmy.world
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            I think that map shows more that the southern states don’t have much wind which is why that region is “lagging behind”. There’s plenty in the north and off the coasts so it should be built there and sent down south.

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            I’m saying the south would need at least 5x (you can fight me on the exact number) the turbines of the North to get to 100%.

            This is due to

            • higher energy consumption due to energy intensive industry
            • lower wind turbine output due to less wind

            Therefore it’s not worth it to build a ton of turbines in the south. Sure, we could have more in those locations where it’s worth it (dark spots on the map).

            I grew up in a village near the Alps, one of the few with it’s own citizen-financed wind turbine. My parents invested. They’re lucky to get their money back because the return is so bad. Once the state money ran out it barely paid for itself

        • dubbel@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Like most of the time, the answer is complex: Yes, there is less wind in the south, but also yes, the south could approve more wind turbines. Yes, the south slows down the construction of high voltage power lines from the wind-rich north to the energy-hungry south, but the states that have to be crossed also do “their part”.

          In the end a couple different electricity-pricing regions would help in balancing all of this.

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      That number is slightly misleading because practically we should subtract Hamburg’s consumption from our overproduction. Someone does have to power the peppersacks and it of course should be us, to keep them dependent.

  • trollercoaster@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    Lots of coal burning leads to a powerful coal lobby leads to lots of coal burning, it’s the circle of life. All that’s missing is coal entering the food chain, IMO we should bring back coal butter, so the country can depend on coal even more and the coal lobby can make even more profits.

    • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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      1 year ago

      That was a horrible thing to read but a wonderful thing to know.

      “Coal butter! Power yourself with the power of coal! Available in lignite and anthracite! And for those extremely demanding consumer: new charcoal butter! 100% natural sourced!”

      (I’ll excuse myself now.)

      • trollercoaster@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        The utter beauty of the whole thing is that with the overall efficiency of the process of making coal butter, we could justify lots and lots of more lignite strip mining to both make the actual coal butter and to power the butter making process. Coal lobbyists will love it!

        • mriormro@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The wiki entry literally states that it was discontinued due to its manufacturing inefficiencies.

          • trollercoaster@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            That’s my point, it’s so inefficient that it’s the perfect excuse for strip mining vast areas in order to get the coal needed to produce it.

  • HollandJim@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Meanwhile here next door in the Netherlands, we have wind farms and solar all over, and we sell our energy to the UK…meanwhile we have some of the highest consumer energy costs in the EU.

    Consumers get screwed over here a lot.

    • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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      The crazy thing is that renewable energy (particularly land-based) is much, much cheaper than conventional generation. This makes sense, as while construction and maintenance costs might be higher over the life of the plant, there is no fuel cost. And yet, consumers end up paying more for this cheap energy.

      Detaching the generation market from the consumption market was down right evil.

      • HollandJim@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        We’re very pro-business here. We talk a lot about it.

        We’re also not so consumer friendly - that, you hear decidedly less about.

      • wewbull@iusearchlinux.fyi
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        We really don’t, or at least, don’t have to pay more for clean energy. When the wind blows or the sun shines my electricity prices goes down. Way down! Through the floor down. It all depends on your tariff.

        It’s gas generators that pin the price high in the UK.

  • occhineri@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    Since it says “right now”, I doubt this listing is qualified for discussing the general state of the energy transition in these countries.

    Edit: I checked it. Spain’s gas share (as a random example) was significantly higher than 17% all over 2023 when summed up monthwise with wind contributing up to 30%.

    Edit2: correct data for Germany for the same time mark: 52% fossil free (38% wind)

  • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    The reason Czechs use „mld.“ instead of „Mrd.“ like Germans for billions (miliardy/Milliarden) is because mrd means “fuck” (noun) in Czech.

  • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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    It’s very a good sign, but I do have doubts about those figures. It’s all too easy to look at total demand and total renewable generation, while ignoring the fact that the country is a net exporter and thus produces more than 100% of its demand - with the remaining uncounted percentage not being green.

    “Fossil free” isn’t exactly a recognised term, either, in which case fossil free =/= net zero =/= completely green.

    • ByteJunk@lemmy.world
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      This data is plain wrong, at least for some countries.

      96% for Portugal would be amazing, but that seemed excessive so I looked it up, renewables accounted for 73% only.

      I mean, it not bad, but we could be 99% there by now if the governments weren’t pandering to utilities and fossil companies so much.

      Edit: sorry forgot to link the source for power data

      • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Scotland is a country, but so is the UK, and the UK governs over Scotland.

        It’s a similar mess with the transmission network. You have NGET owning the transmission lines in England and Wales, but SPT and SHET for Scotland, however all of these are overseen by NGESO, the system operator, who balance the generation and load. Just to make it even more confusing, the Wales and South West distributor WPD has been brought back into British ownership as part of the National Grid group, so you have NGED providing some distribution as well.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        Scotland is a “country”, but “country” is a vague term. Scotland is not a sovereign state, which is what most people think of when they think of countries. In fact, other than the weirdness that is the UK, I can’t think of any place that has “countries” that are not also sovereign states.

        There are some places like Catalonia, or the Basque area that want to be / claim to be countries, but that’s more about sovereign status. They wouldn’t be satisfied being recognized as “countries” while still under the rule of Spain / France.

        The only time this weirdness really shows up is at the World Cup, where the 3 separate countries within the UK each try to send a team. Meanwhile at the olympics they compete as one under the Team GB banner (which is its own weirdness because normally Great Britain excludes Northern Ireland, which is only included when you talk about the United Kingdom. But, Team GB includes Northern Ireland. In yet another exception, sometimes athletes from Northern Ireland compete as part of Ireland in some sports, not as part of the UK / Team GB.

    • frezik@midwest.social
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      IIRC, France exports its excess nuclear power in the summer (little need for AC until recently), but imports during the winter (electric heat for the most part). Mostly to and from Germany, which uses some terribly dirty sources. Don’t know if that’s changed in the last few years, though.

      • taladar@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        They did import a lot that one year in summer when all their nuclear plants broke due to low river levels and some sort of maintenance issue.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      The mix will fluctuate on a day-by-day basis. You could be 100% renewable on one day, wind solar, and hydroelectric (although that’s problematic in and of itself) with the inevitable nuclear for base load.

      The next day you could be still and overcast and you’ve already used all of your water from the dam so you have to run more natural gas in the mix.

      To pick any random day and to say that that date is representative of the year as a whole is silly, you need averages over the course of a year.

      • Bumblefumble@lemm.ee
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        Fossil fuels means it’s something we are digging up and have a limited amount of, as opposed to renewable energy. It doesn’t mean it’s necessarily fossilized lifeforms. Uranium and other radioactive metals are exactly like that, something we dig up and can run out of.

          • camelCaseGuy@lemmy.world
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            And even then, although there’s a finite amount of Uranium on Earth, the amount there is could last us thousands of years. Enough for us to get a replacement, like fusion, working.

            • 342345@feddit.de
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              although there’s a finite amount of Uranium on Earth, the amount there is could last us thousands of years.

              I found sources which state that the resources can last 60 to 150years (more if the price for Uran goes up to multiple 100 dollars per kilo or the consumption doesn’t rise 5 times as expected) Thousands of years? Says who?

              Enough for us to get a replacement, like fusion, working.

              Hopefully.

              Edit: Downvotes in reply to a question? I mean: it also could be a byof-discussion. (Bring your own facts.)

              • camelCaseGuy@lemmy.world
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                I know my sources are kinda lame, but I trust them. First, is this video from Kurzgesast that comments on if, how and why nuclear energy is a good strategy for long term improvement on greenhouse emissions and energy sourcing. Second, there’s this other video from nuclear physicist Elina Charatsidou.

                Again, not papers, but words from reputable people that I imagine have read enough. I know, as hominen fallacy and all that. But there’s a point where I don’t have the time to read papers about EVERY interesting topic.

          • Bumblefumble@lemm.ee
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            Fair enough, I guess in my head I always set it up as a dichotomy of fossil<->renewable, but I guess that’s not quite right.

        • Stanard@lemmy.world
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          I see your point about distinguishing between fuel types. I typically take fossil fuels as meaning non-renewable, carbon-based fuels though. Wouldn’t uranium and other nuclear materials just be non-renewable fuels?

    • BakedGoods@sh.itjust.works
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      They’re Germans. Reluctant to change, stingy and stubborn. I love you Germany but everything isn’t about saving a buck by any means necessary.

      • Ziglin@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        ehhh Germany is buying less gas from Russia since they invaded Ukraine, which means that gas is more expensive and renewable energy is likely a more viable option. In no way would I thank Russia for that.

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    1 year ago

    we may all say a big “THANK YOU!” to Philipp Rösler (FDP) and Peter Altmaier (CDU) for both destroying the German PV-industry, establishing the “Solar-Ausbaudeckel” and the CDU/CSU as a whole to block and hinder wind power for over a decade very effectively.

    And their very hard work to make Germany overly dependent on fossil fuels, to keep it that way and therefore blow ALL climate goals appears to be a success model, as the CDU/CSU are currently winning the public opinion with that intend, whilst those trying to follow the steps of our european neighors are slammed into the ground (just as our PV industry).

    In other words: Germans don’t want clean air. They don’t want a future.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Rational governments get that fossil fuels aren’t going anywhere, coal and oil will stay just where they like they have for longer than humans have been a thing.

    Capitalist societies tho… private companies own those fossil fuels rights and they want to sell as much as they can for as long as they can.

    We should be planning centuries in advance, not a financial quarter at a time.