Ryan Girdusky clashed with British-American journalist Mehdi Hasan on Monday night.

Ryan Girdusky clashed with British-American journalist Mehdi Hasan on Monday night.

CNN has banned a conservative commentator from appearing on the network again after he told a Muslim journalist “I hope your beeper doesn’t go off,” an apparent reference to the spate of exploding pagers in Lebanon that killed members of the Hezbollah militant group last month.

Ryan Girdusky made the comment during a heated debate with Mehdi Hasan, a prominent British-American broadcaster and an outspoken critic of Israel’s war in Gaza, on “CNN Newsnight” with host Abby Phillip.

The guests were discussing the racist jokes made by comedian Tony Hinchcliffe, which overshadowed former President Donald Trump’s rally at New York’s Madison Square Garden on Sunday and continue to make headlines two days later.

As the debate turned fractious, Girdusky and Hasan sparred over whether the latter had been labeled an anti-Semite. “I’m a supporter of the Palestinians, I’m used to it,” Hasan said.

Girdusky replied: “Well I hope your beeper doesn’t go off.”

  • ShadowRam@fedia.io
    306·
    7 days ago

    I’m still flabbergasted that there hasn’t been more of an international outrage concerning those pagers.

    The use of mines as an indiscriminate weapon are already frowned upon,

    And here they are using them, scattered throughout a civilian population with absolutely no regard to who could be standing next to their target.

    Un-fucking believable.

    • leftytighty@slrpnk.netEnglish
      171·
      7 days ago

      They bombed dozens of hospitals and orphanages across two countries and also started a starvation siege since that time.

      There is no outrage left

      • skittle07crusher@sh.itjust.works
        23·
        7 days ago

        There is no outrage left

        This really hit me. As in maybe it explains some things since the internet was created. It’s indeed so hard to keep up.

        • irreticent@lemmy.world
          12·
          6 days ago

          It’s indeed so hard to keep up.

          I know it’s different, but that reminds me of the Gish gallop.

          “The Gish gallop is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by presenting an excessive number of arguments, with no regard for their accuracy or strength, with a rapidity that makes it impossible for the opponent to address them in the time available.”

    • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
      74·
      7 days ago

      There hasn’t been outrage because blowing up people with pagers is actually the most targeted thing Israel has done in the past year. Certainly a step up from killing hundreds of refugees to maybe take out one hamas guy.

      • WanderingVentra@lemm.ee
        38·
        7 days ago

        They killed children in that pager attack. Which I guess is part for the course, so ya, nevermind, you might be right.

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
          2·
          6 days ago

          Which pager strike in particular do you disagree with? AFAIK the targets were pretty open about their relations to Hamas and Iranian funded extranational militants.

          IMO we should have just stopped giving Israel shells and rockets a long time ago and instead given them a very small amount of spec ops equipment like the pagers.

          • Kalysta@lemm.ee
            9·
            6 days ago

            Yes. The 9 year old girl was TOTALLY a Hezbollah militant.

            Get real. Most of the people killed were civilian government workers and members of their families.

            It would be like giving congress exploding pens. Yes, many of the members are deplorable. But handing them mini explosives is an act of terrorism.

            • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
              1·
              6 days ago

              Ah thats fair, I was unaware of the attacks on Tuesday and Wednesday September 12 and 13th.

              Dozens of mourners gathered Wednesday in the Lebanese village of Nabi Sheet to pay respect to Fatima Abdullah

              I had only heard about the earlier strikes.

          • leftytighty@slrpnk.netEnglish
            7·
            6 days ago

            I’m not commenting on the pager attack when I refer to “accused hamas guy” but I’ll leave it as an exercise to you to figure out why and how the pager strike might have led (and did lead) to civilian casualties.

            Yes more precise than “was in a WhatsApp group with the cousin of a suspected Hamas member so the AI told us to bomb him at home with his children” but if that’s the bar…

            • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
              1·
              6 days ago

              You replied to a comment about blowing up a hamas guy with pager by saying the hamas guy is only an accused hamas guy, but you were not referring to the blowing up of a hamas guy with a pager?

    • 01011@monero.town
      56·
      7 days ago

      There has been minimal pushback to the Israeli apartheid regime and decades long genocide in Palestine. You think a few more deaths are going to inspire real international action?

      • leftzero@lemmynsfw.com
        15·
        7 days ago

        We must condemn all terrorist attacks

        At this point it’d probably be less work to praise them when (if?) they don’t commit any…

        • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.world
          7·
          7 days ago

          Every day Israel doesn’t commit an atrocity, they get a cookie.

          Fortunately, I like cookies, cause it looks like I’m going to be hanging onto them for a while.

          • Honytawk@lemmy.zipEnglish
            2·
            6 days ago

            Don’t eat them all yourself though.

            Otherwise Israel would have no incentive to stop.

      • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
        7·
        7 days ago

        Indiscriminate it was not. It was hyper targeted at everyone in the command chain that got a beeper. It’s not as if they sold them through normal stores to the general population.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
          6·
          6 days ago

          It was indiscriminate and it was mass terrorism.

          As of 22 September 2024, the death toll from the attacks was 42, including at least 12 civilian deaths. More than 3,500 people were injured.

          At least 12 people were killed in the first wave of attacks, including civilians such as two health workers, a 9-year-old girl and an 11-year-old boy. The adult son of Ali Ammar, a Hezbollah member of Parliament was killed; Prime Minister Najib Mikati visited southern Beirut to pay his respects. More than 2,750 people were wounded. In the second wave on 18 September, at least 30 people were killed and 750 others were injured. One eye doctor at Mount Lebanon University Hospital reported that a number of those injured showed signs of something being blown up directly in their face, with some losing one or both eyes, while others had shrapnel in their brains. The Lebanese health ministry reported that 300 people had lost both eyes and 500 people had lost one eye as a result of the pager attacks. Other doctors saw severe hand, waist and facial injuries, reporting patients with fingers torn, hands amputated, eyes popped out of the socket and facial lacerations.

          Health Minister Firass Abiad said the vast majority of those being treated in emergency rooms were in civilian clothing and their Hezbollah affiliation was unclear. He added the casualties included elderly people as well as young children. According to the Health Ministry, healthcare workers were also injured and it advised all healthcare workers to discard their pagers. On 26 September, Abdallah Bou Habib, Lebanon’s Foreign Minister, confirmed that most of those carrying pagers were not fighters, rather civilians like administrators. Qassim Qassir, a Lebanese expert on Hezbollah, said the attacks mostly struck civilian workers, leaving its military wing largely unaffected. An unnamed source said 1,500 Hezbollah fighters were taken out of action due to injuries, with many blinded or having lost their hands.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions

          • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
            1·
            6 days ago

            A supply chain of a terrorist organisations was infiltrated and they where sold devices fitted with explosives and then distributed it within their organisation.

            Everyone with a pager (and later also other devices) fell within the Hezbollah hierachy. The fact Hezbollah has infiltrated every level of society and has Docters and many others in their ranks does not make them invalid targets.

            Besides, judging from the videos, we saw people standing next to whoever had the pager where mostly fine. The children dieing is horrible.

            So calling it indiscriminate is more than a stretch. And the collateral damage is wayyyyy lower than with the rest of how Israël behaves.

            • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
              4·
              6 days ago

              Israel has never stopped ethnic cleansing of native populations

              Hezbollah exists out of resistance to Occupation and Invasion by Israel

              “International humanitarian law prohibits indiscriminate attacks – meaning attacks that fail to distinguish between civilians and military targets. It also prohibits the use of the type of booby-traps that appear to have been used in these attacks.

              https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/lebanon-establish-international-investigation-into-deadly-attacks-using-exploding-portable-devices/

              “Such attacks could constitute war crimes of murder, attacking civilians, and launching indiscriminate attacks, in addition to violating the right to life,” the experts said.

              https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/09/exploding-pagers-and-radios-terrifying-violation-international-law-say-un

              Just because Israel routinely violates international humanitarian law and targets civilians doesn’t make this any less of a violation of international humanitarian law and a war crime

              • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
                1·
                6 days ago

                The settler colonial project of Israel is filled with rabid fascists, I agree whole heartedly. The current government of Israel is peak of that performance.

                But trying to paint this as a boobytrap, and targeting civilians. I don’t think anyone buys that for a minute.

                And this was hardly indiscriminate. It was pagers that where handed directly to Hezbollah and distributed by Hezbollah through their network. It’s not as if these where sold by shops in Lebanon to normal Lebanese.

                And collateral sucks, but this still had less than the bomb that was dropped on the appartment complex with the command bunker under it filled with Hezbollah staff.

                • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
                  6·
                  6 days ago

                  But trying to paint this as a boobytrap, and targeting civilians. I don’t think anyone buys that for a minute

                  Well, human rights organizations and international law disagree, and I agree with them. Both those articles discuss that in detail, including how it was a booby trap and indiscriminate.

                  Nor is Hezbollah solely an armed resistance militant group. They are also a prominent political group and maintain a multitude of social services like hospitals, those people are civilians not militants. This did not solely target militants, in fact is mostly didn’t.

                  • RubberDuck@lemmy.world
                    1·
                    6 days ago

                    That’s fair!

                    I think International law does not disagree, it might be something that can be litigated. The pagers where specifically for hezbollah members, not civilians. I’ll expect “boobytraps and civilians” to be a losing argument, time will tell.

                    And, a terrorist organisation that takes over a region, intertwines itself with civil society to get legitimacy while at the same time sabotaging the countries government with threats of terror… is still a terrorist organisation. And anyone working for them a terrorist. I.e. Someone doing the bookkeeping for a terrorist group is still a terrorist.

                    Hezbollah started in direct resistance to Israeli occupation of Lebanon, I wonder what would have happened if they had not continued Post occupation or at least not shot at Israel and allowed for the Lebanese government to try and work with Israël on a peaceful border and other things that stood between the countries and their peoples.

      • spyd3r@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        3·
        7 days ago

        indiscriminate terrorist attack on a civilian population

        You’re describing what the Palestinians did to Israel on 10/7, and have continued doing this entire time, when they launch rockets at Israeli population centers.

        • zbyte64@awful.systems
          20·
          7 days ago

          population centers

          Why does one side have population centers and the other human shields? It’s wrong regardless.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
          8·
          6 days ago

          This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing

          Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism

          Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

          The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

          An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

          Settlements and Occupation

          Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.

          This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.

          The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:

          Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:

          While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements

          The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.

          The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.

          Apartheid Evidence

          Amnesty Report

          Human Rights Watch Report

          B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

          Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing

          Peace Process and Solution

          Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

          How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

          ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

          One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

          Historian Works on the History
        • Soulg@sh.itjust.works
          11·
          7 days ago

          That’s also bad. Both of the sides are bad, and the Palestinian civilians are caught in the crossfire.

        • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          10·
          6 days ago

          I didn’t realize that HAMAS was as large an organization as the Israeli government and armed forces.

          We’re also talking about a completely different country from Palestine that had nothing to do with any part of any of these conflicts, and even then, an indiscriminate terrorist attack on Palestinian civilians wouldn’t be justified by HAMAS’s terrorism. That’s like saying that the US bombings on Iraqi civilians are justified by Al Qaeda’s attack on the WTC on 9/11.

          • lurklurk@lemmy.world
            1·
            6 days ago

            Hezbollah has been firing rockets into Israel for a year now. It’s hard to claim they have nothing to do with any part of these conflicts

            • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
              7·
              6 days ago

              Hezbollah only exists because of Occupations and invasions by Israel

              1982

              The 1982 Lebanon war began on 6 June 1982, when Israel invaded again for the purpose of attacking the Palestine Liberation Organization. The Israeli army laid siege to Beirut. During the conflict, according to Lebanese sources, between 15,000 and 20,000 people were killed, mostly civilians.

              On 16 February 1985, Shia Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin declared a manifesto in Lebanon, announcing a resistance movement called Hezbollah, whose goals included combating the Israeli occupation. During the South Lebanon conflict (1985–2000) the Hezbollah militia waged a guerrilla campaign against Israeli forces occupying Southern Lebanon and their South Lebanon Army proxies.

              Israeli Withdrawal

              Throughout the painstaking process of confirming the Israeli withdrawal, Hizballah was at pains to declare its commitment to recovering the last millimeter of Lebanese territory, but it also acknowledged that it would not act hastily to reinitiate violence. In sum, Hizballah’s behavior and deference to state authority have worked to its political advantage. It reaped recognition in an unprecedented meeting between Nasrallah and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who praised Hizballah’s restraint and its promise of cooperation. The meeting with Annan offers a remarkable contrast with Hizballah’s earlier days, when it was hostile to the UN and especially to the UN force in the south.

              Without an agreement between Syria and Israel, there will be little pressure on Hizballah to disarm. Syria’s calculated strategy is to allow Hizballah to serve as a constant reminder of the consequences of continuing to occupy the Golan Heights.This is a role that Hizballah is happy to play, given its enmity toward Israel. At the same time, it remains profoundly aware of the political costs of bringing destruction down on the heads of its supporters, and this further reduces the prospect that Hizballah will initiate attacks on Israel

              2006

              The doctrine is named after the Dahiya suburb of Beirut, where the Lebanese paramilitary group Hezbollah has its headquarters, which the Israeli military leveled during its assault on Lebanon in the summer of 2006 that killed nearly 1,000 civilians, about a third of them children, and caused enormous damage to the country’s civilian infrastructure, including power plants, sewage treatment plants, bridges, and port facilities.

              It was formulated by then-General Gadi Eisenkot when he was Chief of Northern Command. As he explained in 2008 referring to a future war on Lebanon: "What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on… We will apply disproportionate force on it (village) and cause great damage and destruction there. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases… This is not a recommendation. This is a plan. And it has been approved.” Eisenkot went on to become chief of the general staff of the Israeli military before retiring in 2019.

              While it became official Israeli military doctrine after Israel’s 2006 attack on Lebanon, Israel’s military has used disproportionate force and targeted Palestinian, Lebanese, and other civilians since Israel was established in 1948 based on the ethnic cleansing of indigenous Palestinians, including dozens of massacres to force them to flee for their lives.

              2007 - Present

              Until recently, the border had been relatively quiet. Occasional rockets or drones crossed from Lebanon into Israel without leading to serious escalation, while Israel violated Lebanese airspace more than 22,000 times from 2007 to 2022.

              While the withdrawal was certified by the United Nations, Lebanon disputed it, arguing that the Shebaa Farms was part of its territory, and not part of the Syrian Golan Heights, which Israel continues to occupy.

              So there are two separate issues here that lead to the current dispute: the first is that Israel occupies the Golan Heights and treats it as its own territory in violation of international law, and the second is that there was already a pre-existing disagreement between Syria and Lebanon over the border, prior to the Israeli occupation.

              • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
                1·
                6 days ago

                It was created and grew popular to make Israel withdraw, but today it mainly exists to make sure Iran’s interests in Lebanon are ‘defended’.

                • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
                  3·
                  6 days ago

                  No, it’s still due to resistance against Israeli Occupations and defense against Israeli Invasion, which they did again, after bombing the Capital along with many other cities, killing thousands of civilians.

                  • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
                    1·
                    6 days ago

                    Yeah, after Hezbollah attacked them they’re back. Good thing the Lebanese have Hezbollah to defend them from this cycle

            • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              6·
              6 days ago

              And yet, that still doesn’t justify killing civilians randomly.

              And Israel has been running a military campaign to exterminate Palestine since the 1950s. It’s hard to claim their hands are clean in any of these conflicts.

              I still remember when they were offering Israeli citizenship with the purchase of former Palestinian homes to American Jews in the 2000s.

              • lurklurk@lemmy.world
                1·
                6 days ago

                Claiming they were justified in attacking israel is very different from claiming they have nothing to do with the conflict though. If you feel that firing rockets at israeli civilians is fine and good, say that instead of pretending hezbollah was uninvolved

            • SulaymanF@lemmy.world
              5·
              6 days ago

              They were firing rockets into the Shebaa farms, which Israel acknowledged is not part of Israel. Israel started doing airstrikes into Lebanon and then Hizbullah retaliated.

      • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
        3·
        7 days ago

        Not improvised, and not on the civilian population, but you’re correct about the rest lol

    • godlessworm@lemmy.world
      15·
      7 days ago

      well we know who could be standing next to their target- another brown person in a majority muslim country. IE, nobody western supremacist racist pigs give a fuck about which is why there was no punishment and there will be no punishment against israel for any single thing they do. if it were gonna happen it would have by now. it’s not as tho once they get to that 300,000th dead palestinian suddenly the “rules based order” is gonna enact some of those “consequences for breaking the rules” on israel. not gonna happen. someone needs to dylan crooks netanyahu.

      • johker216@lemmy.world
        1·
        6 days ago

        The conflict is not one based on racism, it’s literally based on religion and at least 3 groups of people in a small area using their religion to justify the murder of others. Full stop. Jews are not white. Jews who were expelled from Israel and became Europeanized are essentially genetically identical to the Jews that remained. Skin color is not race, but making this conflict about race makes that individual racist

      • ShadowRam@fedia.io
        5·
        6 days ago

        Wait… what?

        I’m I reading that right?

        12 people killed. 6 of which were 2 children and 4 healthcare workers.

        But 2,800 wounded? So all of that wasn’t even about neutralizing targets, but maiming?

        How many were set off? I have a hard time believing a 12killed : 2800wounded ratio…

        EDIT: Google says bout 5000 pagers

        CNN: reports 37killked but 3,000 wounded.

    • Soleos@lemmy.world
      5·
      7 days ago

      Yeah no, the exploding pagers and radios, which were from an intercepted supply specifically for Hezbollah, was far more targeted than anyone could reasonably ask for.

      Like yes, Israel’s overall actions in Gaza and Lebanon have been horribly ruthless and against civilian well-being. And there is the broader context of Palestine. But this is what you’re outraged by?

      If everything between bombing Hezbollah and targeted attacks like the pagers/radio are off the table, like what would you actually do if a non-governmental military was indiscriminately firing hundreds of rockets into your cities for an entire year? Seriously, how would you actually respond if you were in the leadership position?

        • Soleos@lemmy.world
          4·
          7 days ago

          Serious question, would you condone assassinating Putin with an IED even if several children were killed? Would it be better if they used a missile strike with 5x the civilian casualties because at least it isn’t an IED? Would it be better to do nothing and allow an opposing military force to continue bombarding your cities and your children with rockets and missiles?

          I abhore the mass bombings and utter destruction Israel has wrought over the last year. It is beyond the pale. I would genuinely have prefered it if they could’ve taken out all of Hamas by blowing up cell phones in their pockets instead.

          • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
            11·
            7 days ago

            There’s no risk of Putin being at a random grocery store or hospital so your hypothetical doesn’t tea make sense.

            • Soleos@lemmy.world
              3·
              7 days ago

              That doesn’t answer the question. Let me rephrase to be more direct.

              What do you believe makes for acceptable and unacceptable civilian casualties (e.g. children) in urban warfare and what principles do you draw on to form these beliefs? Please use an example from a side you feel are “the good guys”.

              If you’re a pacifist or believe not a single civilian casualty is acceptable, what would your approach be to resolving a conflict where your civilian population is being attacked with rockets/missiles?

          • zbyte64@awful.systems
            6·
            7 days ago

            I mean it was wrong when the US bombed weddings in the middle east and was a bad look. Don’t even need hypotheticals.

      • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
        17·
        7 days ago

        Idk dude, generally things like booby traps are considered illegal in part because they’re not selective. Like if someone breaks in and you kill them with a gun it’s self defense, but if it’s a booby trap then we view it differently. Disguising bombs as typical civilian items seems pretty messed up.

        • Soleos@lemmy.world
          3·
          7 days ago

          Did you forget that every “responsible” western power(Edit: Ottawa treaty) the US and Ukraine (who was a signatory of the Ottawa treaty) also has an arsenal of anti-personnel and anti-vehicle mines which are specifically meant to be hidden and disguised? Quite literally booby traps with long-lasting risks for civilian lives. Many children have lost their lives due to mines, yet they are still deemed acceptable in war.

          Anything that risks civilian lives is pretty messed up. But even compared to the mines being used in Ukraine, the pagers/radios were far more targeted and posed less risk to civilians.

            • Soleos@lemmy.world
              2·
              7 days ago

              Oh snap, that’s awesome! I wasn’t aware of this. I assumed NATO would be consistent with the US on mines. Thank you for sharing this.

              I’ll modify my argument to “Even the US and Ukraine use mines”

              It’s interesting though, according to my research the distinction between mines and weapons lie in how it’s activated. For example, the C19 ex-Claymore is now remote detonation only to comply with the Ottawa treaty because it can only be activated remotely and cannot be used with an indiscriminate activator like a tripwire. Therefore it is a weapon. With this les, the pagers/radios are more akin to weapons rather than mines.

              So booby traps are allowed, as long as someone is there to decide when to press the button, which the Israelies clearly did.

          • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
            8·
            7 days ago

            The use of mines as an indiscriminate weapon are already frowned upon,

            Did you forget that every “responsible” western power also has an arsenal of anti-personnel and anti-vehicle mines which are specifically meant to be hidden and disguised?

            No, I didn’t forget. Someone even mentioned them in this same comment chain.

            • Soleos@lemmy.world
              2·
              7 days ago

              Okay, so let’s go with your position that attacking soldiers with explosive weapons in civilian areas are not justifiable.

              Based on your beliefs, what do you see as a justifiable response to Hezbollah’s year long barrage of rockets and missiles into Israeli cities. Keep in mind Hezbollah by and large conducts these strikes directly embedded in or right beside civilian sites. And they also store weapons in civilian sites.

              The goal now is not to say which is worse, there’s plenty of blame to go around. The goal is to understand how you think about conflict and the principles you believe in that shape your views.

              • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
                7·
                7 days ago

                let’s go with your position

                This was never a debate, I was just saying that I feel like disguising bombs as everyday, civilian objects is bad. The comment where I even posted that I literally began with “idk dude” to make it clear I wasn’t trying to engage in debate about this topic. The only reason I even replied again was because land mines were mentioned in the context of “did you forget” when literally above in this comment chain land mines were already mentioned.

    • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
      4·
      7 days ago

      Pretty clear from the footage and lack of civilian casualties that the collateral risk was very low though

    • pingveno@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      5 days ago

      The only people who had those pagers were Hezbollah members. Hezbollah has been lobbing missiles into Israel, killing civilians including children and forcing an evacuation. They picked a fight, why should there be an expectation that Israel just sits back and takes it? Don’t get me wrong about Gaza, they have gone way too far there. But Hezbollah seems at least somewhat justified.

      • ShadowRam@fedia.io
        3·
        5 days ago

        The only people who had those pagers were Hezbollah members.

        Did they have camera’s in them to know that? and also know about people in the surrounding area?

        Hezbollah has been lobbing missiles into Israel, killing civilians including children and forcing an evacuation.

        And you think this is the appropriate response to that?

        I get the Israeli people are absolutely tired of this shit. But what makes them think that kind of response isn’t going to do anything other than bolster the other sides hatred/resolve?

        As they indiscriminately kill more, they are recruiting more to the cause. When someone loses their kids/brother/father/home/etc. That just makes them having nothing more to lose, and join the war. People don’t want to fight. People just want to live their lives.

        Israel is the one with all the weapons/tech/money in this. If the Israeli people are tired of this shit, they need to look at a leader who’s not going to perform actions that just increases Hezbollah’s and Hamas’s numbers.

    • OmegaMan@lemmings.world
      43·
      7 days ago

      What’s even crazier for me to wrap my head around is those pagers were a safer method for civilians than what they’ve been doing. They’re indiscriminately leveling city blocks killing thousands of innocents.