honey look, freedom of expression and the right to protest in America just
gotdropped.Let’s not keep making the mistake of assuming Trump’s tweets have force of law. He’s just talking out of his ass again, just like he’s not actually invading greenland and canada. Notice how he’s talking about at least 4 different actions here, I’m pretty sure none of which he can actually do. 5 if you count thanking us for our attention to this matter (?). If Trump tries to do anything in this regard no judge* will uphold it.
*Obligatory other than Clarence Thomas
People in power do what he says. His word is de facto law, even if it’s illegal. It literally does not matter. You are in denial if you think he’s not going to get away with this.
Let’s not keep making the mistake of assuming the rule of law matters at this point. If he does something and nobody stops it, its legality or lack there of is moot. If he says to do something and people do it and nobody stops him (or judge’s rulings about it are ignored), then it doesn’t matter that it was illegal.
I know you’re just trying to get people to calm down, but at this point, people are right to be scared and right to think these things could actually come to pass considering it has happened before. Maybe it won’t get that far… But plenty has already happened that should never have happened, and the US currently has a president who is illegally, specifically unconstitutionally, holding office and was allowed to be sworn in anyway, so it’s probably not a good idea to assume this won’t happen just because it’s also unconstitutional.
Hey remember that wall that didn’t get built?
The fact that no one is trolling him about it shows how people are weirdly compliant about all this.
“…illegal protest…”?
Oh right, the US Constitution doesn’t exist any more.
Next time an american speaks about “muh first amendment”, “USA only free speech country in the world” bullshit, show them this
The problem is it cuts both ways. The Democrats saying they want hate speech to not be protected and Nazi propaganda to be censored is just the flipside of the same coin.
Either you have free speech or you don’t
Either you have free speech or you don’t
Lots of countries have free speech with limits on it. It’s not uncommon and doesn’t mean Citizens don’t have freedom of speech.
For example:
If it has a limit, it’s not free
If I can’t do a Nazi salute, then I can’t say “I want to shoot Donald Trump in the face”
If it has a limit, it’s not free
“Free bread sticks”
“I’ll take 100”
“Um… No. You can’t have that many.”
“iF tHeRe’S a LiMiT iT’s NoT fReE!”
Don’t be pedantic. A limit would be “free breadsticks only if you decide to pray to our god in front of us.”
If you say unlimited and then put a limit on it, that is illegal, as Verizon and AT&T found out in court
If you say unlimited and then put a limit on it
When did the American Constitution promise “Unlimited Speech”?
If it has a limit, it’s not free
Don’t be pedantic
Bruh… your pedantry started this
Society and laws are at the mercy of those who are in control. Right now in the US it is the Trump administration, but I remember Barack Obama saying, “I’ve got a pen, and I’ve got a phone,” emphasizing his ability to take executive action without waiting for Congress to push his agenda forward.
That’s not freedom.
So should there be any penalty for lying under oath?
No, because it is unconstitutional to put someone under oath
By definition, it means a solemn promise that is beholden to a deity therefore it is illegitimate in court and law by the First Amendment.
You probably also think it should not be legal to kill people that break into your house to steal your TV.
Fair enough. I think the discussion ends there; I cannot use reason to dissuade you from a position that you clearly did not use reason to get yourself into.
Scream “Fire” at a theater. Obviously you cannot.
The phrase “shouting fire in a crowded theater” is outdated and legally irrelevant to modern free speech discussions. Its origin from Schenck v. United States (1919) was overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), which set a much higher standard for restricting speech. Modern First Amendment doctrine protects almost all speech unless it directly incites imminent violence or crime.
Modern First Amendment doctrine protects almost all speech unless it directly incites imminent violence or crime.
So you are saying there is a limitation
So there no free speech afterall 🤔
If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal. (Karl Popper)
Nah.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
oh look, a literal “free speech absolutist.”
Wrong platform
I’m banned from that platform because they do not believe in free speech absolutism, especially when you start in on churches and cops
Ohh, sweet summer child.
Is it so hard to believe you think Free speech should be absolute weapon should be unrestricted, abortion should be unrestricted, people should be able to harness electricity from solar and harness rainwater from the sky?
Because these are all things that are restricted here except for speech, so I am sure as fuck not going to budge on it
Are you high?
There is a massive difference between allowed to say my government is doing something wrong, and being allowed to say “gas all the kikes”. One is criticism of authority, which is good. The other is hate speech, which is bad. You can absolutely have one without the other.
There is no difference between those two phrases if you actually have free speech
And in fact, saying “I voted for Donald Trump”, is way more offensive to me than saying “kill everyone in Gaza”
Every freedom ends where freedoms of others are infringed. That includes every freedom, let it be freedom of movement (you can go wherever, but not someone else’s house), freedom of expression (you can express yourself however, unless that expression instills hatred towards others, inflicts trauma on kids etc. etc.) and yes, also freedom of speech (You can say anything, unless what you do is calling for violence, attacks someone etc.).
Some of you US guys really don’t understand how freedom in a society works.
deleted by creator
Hate speech is not free speech, boo.
Yes, it is.
That’s why all the Westborough Baptist people can stand around with God hates fags signs and nothing happens to them
The court only ruled on offensive or outrageous speech…
When? Brandenburg V Ohio long predates them
Snyder v. Phelps 2011
Yeah, and an allied soldier in WW2 was just the flipside of a Wehrmacht soldier, so both were the same, right?
Chinese and Japanese soldiers during that time period would be a much more accurate comparison, and the answer is yes
The answer is only yes, if you are a misanthropic cynic.
Free speech isn’t intended to supercede criminal law. Advocating for hurting people is a crime. If they want to do it and have it be covered as “free speech”, they need to start by changing the law.
Advocating for hurting people is not a crime. Even an inactionable threat is not a crime. Look up precedent for arrests of inciting a riot and see how many of those charges actually stuck or help up on appeal.
The fact that people are saying yore okay to punch Nazis in the face would be a violation of what you are advocating for but you have no problem with that because you don’t like Nazis.
I personally don’t support people saying that either. Punching people in the face is not a great way to change their minds that they are being “the bad guy”. And I think seeing alot of people post that, is counter productive to the goal of getting along and solving problems together reasonably.
But I don’t, and shouldn’t, control what everyone else thinks is a good idea.
Advocating for hurting people is a crime.
It’s really not, though. Making a specific, credible threat against someone can be, but speaking in general terms that someone ought to be hurt without specifying how, when, or by who is not.
I’m sure you’ll become correct momentarily, though, once Trump declares that calling for his removal (or hell, any criticism of the regime because why not?) would “hurt” him politically and is therefore a felony. That is what you had in mind, right?
One Question:
Do you think the government should ban CSAM (Child Sexual Abuse Materials)?
If yes, then you are already okay with limits the First Amendment and your argument is invalid
If no, you’re a pedophile and you need to GTFO
No. The government has no right to accessing anybody’s materials. Warrant or not.
this isn’t about fringe democratic congressmen addressing hate speech, this is about a sitting president threatening to punish protests.
You are not wrong. The Supreme Court finding presidential immunity and then allowing an insurrectionist to run in contravention of the 14th amendment seems to have finally put the old document to rest.
We live according to royal decree now.
now you’re catching on! You’ll be head of a department in no time under drumpf’s regime!
Correct
lol it never has the united states has a long history of killing, maiming, and imprisoning protestors
I mean just to be fair isn’t it illegal to have a huge protest without informing the authorities first? Also violent protests would be illegal too, right?
These assumptions are based on similar laws from other countries. But I don’t really believe Trump is talking about those protests or just planning to forbid them from getting permission to happen.
1st4th5th6th8th14thtruly a champion for free speech 🤡
So much for the 1st Amendment. Guess that’s only valid when it fuels the Trumpsterfire.
This is the same as the Zelensky trap. They’re going to cut federal funding regardless. The just plan on getting you to bend the knee before hand.
This exactly. Higher education hurts them in the long run so it was never going to get a pass. It’ll be gutted so that private schools can take over. This is just a way to put the blame on the universities and students who don’t bend to their will.
It’ll be gutted so that private schools can take over
Maybe. If it resists. If it fails to resist it will be turned into an institution responsible for communicating a fascist ideology.
What can you say to that? The Americans knew what they were getting into. They elected a fascist to power who is abolishing democracy. In case you didn’t know it yet, let me tell you: America is on the way to becoming a dictatorship.
What’s an illegal protest? I thought first amendment speech covered that
Also, how can he expel a student from a school he doesn’t control? or does he mean expel students from the country?
Sound alot like how russia works.
Mask up. Leave your phones at home. Break shit.
They won’t. They couldn’t even get upset over kids being massacred every week in their schools. They are a broken people. Have been for decades. Their military.and economy didn’t fail. Their moral fiber did. They substituted thoughts and prayers and other virtue signalling for community organisation and direct action.
If you think I am wrong then don’t reply. Go outside and prove it. Nobody gives a shit what people write in social media. It means nothing.
Lots of us are mad and just don’t know what to do. One at a time we get arrested or shot. It takes a group effort but nothing has crystallized yet.
I got two kids under 4, I’m not lining up to get my ticket punched just to get the ball rolling.
Exactly. In Ukraine parents fight and die so their 4 year old will have a country to return to. In the US they let their souls die instead and leave their kids to fight their own battles.
You are a nation of Uvalde cops.
Downvote me. Argue. In your hearts you all know it is true. You are broken. You were clearly broken since at least the 90s when you met Columbine with platitudes instead of tens of millions of mothers on the streets screaming in pain.
I’m not going to downvote you. Suggest an action.
Edit: And inspire us by what you are doing besides flaming on the Internet. I’m sure you must be doing something, rather than standing by passing the buck? Right?
Thankfully I live in a rich liberal democracy where over 90% vote and we still have a fairly decent though far from perfect society.
I can be outraged by what Americans let happen to their country because I’m human and a parent but I can’t help and shouldn’t help. American society needs to find its own solutions, in its own time and on terms it can live with.
You can’t pass this off onto me.
In no way am I trying to pass the buck, but it’s easy to do nothing and bitch on the Internet. It’s a lot harder to be the first one to do something.
Assuming you are actually aussie you understand how fucked you are too right?
Gimme a break, I don’t expect you to know everything that goes on here, just as all I “know” about Australia is “you” made Murdoch, continue to abuse native people just like us, and dingos regularly eat babies. Like asserting that no Australian people care about those issues is wrong and obviously my fundamental understanding of the country is flawed, it’s also wrongheaded to assert the American people are all broken and spineless for years and have bad moral fiber (I’ll assume this is a normal saying for y’all elsewhere, but that sounds like a nationalistic dog whistle to my ears).
It is especially bizarre to claim that Americans are incapable of direct action a few years after the country had some pretty explosive sustained protests against police violence and racism. The US is filled with broken people, yes, but not because of some nebulous moral failing, and it’s the broken government you have an issue with, not the poor fools who were born here.
Looking to the mentioned protests a few years back might explain the lack of similar reaction now. They burned youth prisons, occupied police stations, ran for office, took to the streets, were shot at, gassed, and went to jail. For what? Nothing changed endured, the establishment “left” abandoned the movement and helped undo any change that occured, the government clamped down harder on dissent, and Trump got reelected. Maybe the methods of resistance have to change to succeed, you cant keep fighting the war of yesterday and expect to win after all, and you sure don’t have to publicize your actions for online strangers to check your moral fiber.
Posting may be meaningless, but I’d say all this to your face if we were talking in person too. Communication is how we change and change minds, and leaving nonsense unchallenged is how we got into this mess in the first place, and I won’t make that mistake here or in my non digital life.
You’re spot on… I might argue that that moral fiber has pretty much never existed. But do you have any insight on how one even begins to restore that moral fiber?
Leave your ID at home too… Just saying.
All federal funding will stop
That’s the only part here anyone needs to know.
He’ll threaten to pull funding for his stupid pet issues first, then pull it anyways for everyone else.
Therefore, fucking ignore his threats, nothing you can do will ever appease him and he will go back on his own word like it’s a bodily function.
No masks, says the guy with the supporters wearing masks and carrying nazi flags
Then they came from the students, and I watched my parents still beg for more fascism because they thought they were going to be billionaires any day now
“illegal protests” Pretty sure Freedom of Speech and Assembly is part of the first amendment. He’s a putz
