More than 100 Arizona Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and progressive Democrats and community leaders have signed a letter making the case for those reluctant to support Kamala Harris against Donald Trump.
“We know that many in our communities are resistant to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration’s complicity in the genocide,” the letter, published Thursday night, reads.
“Some of us have lost many family members in Gaza and Lebanon. We respect those who feel they simply can’t vote for a member of the administration that sent the bombs that may have killed their loved ones,” the letter continued. “As we consider the full situation carefully, however, we conclude that voting for Kamala Harris is the best option for the Palestinian cause and all of our communities.”
It is important to note that foreign nations like Iran, Russia and China are using this topic to convince voters to allow facism to win the election in the US. This doesn’t mean that Israel shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions. But history shows how foreign actors use these topics to manipulate us.
I think it is important to note that a surprisingly large number of voters say they like fascism without any need to rationalise that as foreign meddling. Being told that you are good because you are ingroup and they are bad because they are outgroup is an enduringly popular message with a large minority of people.
Looks like teaching history was important after all…
It seems like this message resonates strongly with about 1/3 of people across time and space.
Yeah, it sucks but everyone just needs to hold their nose and do what will have the best outcome. Sadly, if Trump is elected, this will probably not be an issue in the future. Yeah, Harris needs to do more and the democrats need to be pressured into doing what’s right, but the only way that matters is if they’re in power. If Republicans have control, nothing you say regarding Palestine will matter.
If Republicans have control, nothing you say regarding Palestine will matter.
I sadly suspect that political orthodoxy will continue, and that orthodoxy is “it’s okay for the IDF to kill innocent people”.
For sure, in the near future. Hopefully we can improve on that, but we have to have Palestinians alive to improve on it.
Yeah, it sucks but everyone just needs to hold their nose and do what will have the best outcome.
southpark_cableguys.jpg
Important to note that fascism and genocide broadly persist under the current Harris co-led administration. Persecution and the marginalization of black Americans persists in the most democrat-controlled cities of America, not just in the Uyghur Autonomous Region.
Amusing that Americans fear countries that, even combined, are responsible for a fraction of the worldwide political coups and corruption America itself is responsible for.
America has singlehandedly propped up the Israel military, why pretend it is divorced from moral responsibility in the aftermath of a genocide?
doesn’t mean that Israel shouldn’t be held accountable
Why pretend Americans have any moral high ground in geopolitics, especially regarding Israel?
You’re being downvoted but you’re not wrong. While a Trump presidency has dark implications it happening due to foreign interference would be no different than the coups, assassinations, and implanted dictatorships America has done in other countries for decades. Trumps whole immigrant fear mongering doesn’t happen if the US government had helped the countries they fucked up in Central and South America.
I think it’s important to remember this
This new tack that Harris is bad for Black people is as transparent as it is far fetched.
As the California AG, she piloted programs that provided educational resources to both released prisoners, as well as at risk kids beginning in elementary schools.
Those programs reduced truancy and improved outcomes for at risk individuals and families, who were disproportionately black. They have since become national models of social harm reduction.
Harris supports legalization of marijuana and releasing non violent drug offenders, again disproportionately benefiting black Americans.
Edit: Although these statements are all trivial to verify, some people may lack the basic search skills to do so. the following links provide additional information:
Attorney General Kamala D. Harris Launches Initiative to Reduce Recidivism in California 2013
Kamala Harris, District Attorney for San Francisco, launched Back on Track 2009
[The program has] Been adopted by the National District Attorneys Association as a model program.
Kamala Harris Will Legalize recreational marijuana 2024 official campaign announcement
Why spout obvious lies when Google exists? There are many examples of Harris fighting to keep now-overturned convincts imprisoned as well, need I go on?
“Defiance of the federal court order requiring the reduction of the California prisoner population is reminiscent of the Southern governors of the 1950s declaring their defiance of federal court desegregation orders,” Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of UC Berkeley Law School, told NPR at the time. “Both were misguided efforts to undermine enforcement of the Constitution.” Added Barry Krisberg, longtime president of the National Council on Crime and Delinquency, “The legal arguments that the state is putting forward make no sense.”
https://prospect.org/justice/how-kamala-harris-fought-to-keep-nonviolent-prisoners-locked-up/
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Is this a reflection of the kind of insults you heard as a child learning to interact with others?
Go back to your country
A white supremacist slogan from a supposed anti-fascist?
I have to say, “The evil foreigners are to blame for us becoming fascist” is an onion-level take.
I mean, it’s no secret that a bunch of countries are running massive disinformation campaigns in order to divide the populations of western countries. Attempting to destabilise another country by propping up certain political factions is a tactic that has been employed across the world for at least the past century (see: Lenin, and how he got in power).
Of course, we are responsible for ensuring that we do not become fascist states, but acting like theres no outside influence propping up the fascists is naive at best.
Yes, but the point stands: Lenin wasn’t grown in a vat in Berlin, he was only ever in Vienna because being in St. Petersburg would get him arrested. There are American political factions favored by certain foreign nations, but they are, at the end of the day, American political factions. And I frankly find it
deeply depressinghilarious that the current state of the discourse seems to agree that foreigners are destroying the country, but can’t agree over which foreigners exactly. Talk about Overton loopholes.
So many options for the title:
Jiminy Cricket is a Putin plant.
America’s Collective Conscience: Misguided or Manchurian Candidate?
Ask not what your country can do for genocide, ask what genocide can do for your country.
From what I’ve seen over the last year, Iran and China are working against Trump. Russia is working for him and so are some Israeli actors. This is unsurprising as Trump would be worse for Iran and China and better for Russia and Israel. This is not to say there isn’t interference, but that the sides aren’t all pro-fascism. Assuming fascism is ascribed only to Trump.
China is 100% for Trump. Iran is more complicated.
Iran is more along the lines of “fuck the US. But, fuck, US, fuck it up the right way ok? Butt fuck, the US.”
More like Iran really wants to progress as a nation technologically without progressing as a nation socially. China and Russia were able to do that, and Iran is being unable to because of the US, but was doing better for a while with the last Iran deal that Trump fucked up.
Iran is sort of the weirdest place in the world. highly educated folk, restricted access to literature and products, all sorts of restrictions on women. It’s always been very educated, and until the US overthrew the democratically elected government, it was doing quite well in the academic realm.
The Iranian religious conservatives have such brutal tactics that they effortlessly stifle any social progress. As seen the last dozen times women have attempted it.
They are also in the weird realm of not being able to accept Kamala as president for ‘moral’ reasons and Trump directly harmed Iran. Which all benefitted China and Russia because guess who supplies that stuff now?
So, yeah. Iran is complicated
Well put!
There are also a number of conflicting views between Iran’s religious authorities and the civilian government that have caused a lot of these inconsistencies.
Really? What’s the Chinese pro Trump angle that I’m not seeing?
Anything that weakens the west is good for the CCP. Also, Trump’s trade war benefitted them a lot last time.
Weak west also means smaller market for China’s export driven economy. How did the trade war benefit them?
I can’t remember another recent candidate in the US that not only wasn’t super pro-Taiwan, but said the US should just hang them out to dry if the PRC were to invade the island. They probably like that side of him.
Plus, an incredibly vain, greedy and self-confident idiot is not the hardest of targets to get to do what you want.
The Taiwan angle I get. The idiot angle too. However that is complimented by further decreasing Chinese access to the US market.
Do Muslim’s really think voting for Muslim ban guy who would give Israel even more weapons a better choice?
No but Russian troll farm employees sure want us to believe it.
Oh good, this must be a safe community. Asklemmy@lemmy.ml banned me for having the audacity to suggest the russian trolls might be fewer in number than the number of their accounts would suggest.
Yeah, their admin is working for russia.
I just got banned from !asklemmy@lemmy.ml for 2 months because I said I wasn’t comfortable installing an Android app with a Russian developer. The audacity!
Many just want to stay home, but in contested districts their absence may mean something.
A poll released Monday conducted by Arab News/YouGov found that Trump led Harris 45 percent to 43 percent among Arab Americans. Those voters said that they viewed Trump as more supportive of Israel’s current government, but that he was more likely to end the conflict.
In 2020, FL Hispanics were bombarded with ads saying that Biden would give away Florida to Castro as part of his love for communism or deport them all to Cuba. Trump won FL by a large margin, mostly because Miami area was not as blue as in the past. 60% of FL voters still voted for $15 minimum wage.
In 2020, also, heavily hispanic southern counties of TX went pro Trump on ads that there would be a lot of work in the counties from building walls.
AIPAC lobby has spent record amounts on primaries for democrats this year where the incumbent supported a ceasefire. The only ones AIPAC won were ones where they did not mention Israel at all. Other Republican PACs are blanketing Arab zip codes with how pro Israel Harris is, and Jewish zip codes with how she is a muslim plant.
While Trump very proudly has RFK boast of his desire to end the most stupid war the US has ever conducted, Trump is favoured by Netanyahu, including reported daily strategy calls on how to sabotage Biden’s fake constraints policies. He is more likely to believe any benefits Netanyahu tells him of a full war on Iran/Lebanon/Syria over any prudence.
Trump’s main claim for 2020 election “rigging” is that a Hunter Biden laptop existed, without anything implicating President on it. But republican rigging of misinformation, and vote suppression, just wasn’t enough even though that nothing story was still all over the news.
There are serious problems with US electoral system, and it is orders of magnitude worse every cycle.
In 2020, FL Hispanics were bombarded with ads saying that Biden would give away Florida to Castro as part of his love for communism or deport them all to Cuba. Trump won FL by a large margin, mostly because Miami area was not as blue as in the past. 60% of FL voters still voted for $15 minimum wage.
JFC people are fucking stupid
Biden would give away Florida to Castro as part of his love for communism
I love how utterly deranged republican shit is in the US, and seemingly there are people so braindamaged they take it serious. 😂 Really goes to show how much worse things could be in many countries. At leasy they’re not the US, basically.
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Many are extremely conservative, and just want a tax cut.
The tax cut that Turnip would only give to the 1%?
Lot are well off, and the rest think they’ll get it anyway.
Remember, the Trump tax cuts were popular-ish even when most people got like $100/yr.
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No, but virtue signaling white folks will be happy to tell you that, rather than “voting for genocide”, it’s better to vote 3rd party or not at all… thereby electing Trump.
It’s a principled nut punch to every Muslim, themselves, and all the rest of us. So brave.
Look, another group democrats hate. I’m sure if you hate them enough it’ll go full circle.
Maybe its not so much third party voters as it is the vast majority of americans are intolerant selfish people.
Or maybe people who don’t live under the American 2 party system DONT UNDERSTAND HALF A FUCK of what’s going on in our elections and should shut the FUCK up and eat a whole potato instead.
Respectfully.
Edit: But it couldn’t be that, otherwise why in the everloving butthole would you still be talking out of your poop shooter?
Love your energy!
BOOM! Alcohol!
That is fucking brutal.
I agree but man what a horrible choice.
yeah its a truly dystopian choice but voting for somebody doesn’t mean you approve of everything they have done or will do.
It just means for those with affected friends and families they have done the cruel calculus and have decided which path will be lesser of two evils.
I fully expect trump to try to deport palestinian refugees and its crazy this is where we are at.
I mean, he’s promised to deport Americans who protest on behalf of the Palestinians. He sure wouldn’t hesitate to deport Palestinian refugees.
It is no choice between someone who disappoints me in their responses on this issue, and someone who openly wonders if sending a nuclear warhead into a hurricane a couple hundred miles offshore will lead to a positive result. And of course that was with where his mental state was at over 4 years ago.
Well said!!
Every election in the US is that way. It’s a choice of the lesser evil and you can only vote against the greater evil not vote for good.
Every general election is that way. We’ve had alternatives.
If Harris loses the fault will be with every Democrat that voted Biden over Sanders in 2020. That was the window we had to transform the Democrats into a party that would absolutely crush the MAGA movement. We missed it and we may not see another in this lifetime.
And every cycle both choices become more and more evil.
Not every election has a US supported genocide as an issue, though.
The US needs to fix their voting system. Preferential voting, run-off, whatever. First past the post sucks.
Also the gerrymandering.
Some of us have lost many family members in Gaza and Lebanon.
Watch the “a vote for Kamala is a vote for genocide” crowd claim these Palestinian and Lebanese Americans support genocide in Palestine and Lebanon.
I love you but let’s let the bad faith people speak for themselves.
Those shitty trolls pretending to be tankies don’t need your help.
They were going to come in here regardless. And they have.
Welcome to the Dick chopping block shop. We can take off half an inch or the whole thing
Edit
I hope you people downloading me realize that not pulling the lever in the trolley problem is a choice just as much as pulling the lever
We all understand that people are allowed to make stupid choices.
Just don’t bring up CCP genocide, they are totally cool with that genocide.
They claim it isn’t happening. Just a Western lie.
Wow, this milkshake brings all the .ml to the yard.l
And they’re like, don’t vote so hard.
Damn right, both sides are equard!
I’d impeach you, but it makes me hard
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Try explaining this to .ml
Comment removed.
Reason: Rule 1 (western propaganda)Touché
BUT AMERICA IS THE TRUE EVIL, RUSSIA REALLY IS THE ONLY GOOD GUY IN THE GAME - probable .ml response.
Spot on. I’ve essentially read that on that instance last year and it yucked me tf out. Leaving .ml was the best decision.
I think the tankies have noticed, lol.
Easier to block them and move on.
Good, I hope it does some good. Any other vote is a vote for Trump, intended or not, and Trump won’t just ignore the genocide. His track record makes it abundantly clear that he’ll absolutely make it worse.
I mean he is where money is and that is powerful zionist lobbies so yea you can bet money that he will be super enthusiastic to help Israel.
I don’t know about that. I think he just doesn’t care about some “brown” people getting genocided. Unless there is graft he can profit from, then he will care. And I’m sure there will be a For Sale sign on the White House lawn about it.
Any other vote is a vote for trump
This is just factually incorrect. And easily demonstrated using math you should have learned in the 5th grade.
Trump: 5 votes
Harris: 5 votes
Any other vote: 5 votes
If i keep adding votes to ‘any other vote’ the ratio between trump / Harris will not change.
T: 5 H: 5 AOV: 10000
Ratio is still one see? In no way is Harris’ chances of winning impacted by a third party vote.
What you mean to say is ‘Harris having shitty policies that are abhorrent to the voting population causes her to be at risk of losing to a literal fascist.’
By trying to put the blame on other voters because you are willing to overlook genocide says more about you than it does them.
There is only one person who can fix Harris’ platform. Put the blame where it rightfully belongs, on harris.
Sure, but only fourth grade logic is required to see why that’s wrong.
Trump: 50,000,000 votes
Kamala: 50,000,000 votes
Other candidates: 1,000 votes + 3,000 votes + 7,000 votes + …
When an primitive voting scheme is used that says “winner takes all and you can only vote for one candidate,” a vote for any other candidate is essentially the same as not voting unless the masses gather behind a single third party (which will never happen, especially with the internet).
A voting scheme more sophisticated that allows people to pick multiple candidates, in something like a ranked list for example, would make third party votes worth something. But that disrupts the status quo and doesn’t help career politicians, so we’ll never see that unless heads start rolling.
Lol you’d fail fourth grade. First off there is no evidence third party people would vote for any other candidate if the 3rd party wasnt on the ballot.
Secondly did you know that in ~40/50 states your harris vote is very unlikely change the outcome, and in 16 of those harris is assured the win? If you’re in those 16 think long and hard if genocide is the line you’re willing to cross.
Fun fact do you know many 3rd party candidates and no voters this year are Republicans?
Second fun fact: did you know that our government has two electable branches? And you can deny votes for one to influence the other? Did you also know that this works locally too?
For example i routinely deny candidates from the Democratic party my vote while voting for other Democratic candidates to increase the likelihood they are replaced or change their positions.
The governor who is prochoice has way more votes than the legislature candidate who wasnt 🤔. Funny how that works. So again anyone reading this:
- Support rank choice voting in your region.
- Feel free to vote third party! Its fine in most cases. Just show up and vote.
- If you’re in a competitive district: voting third party might not be in your interest!
- Stop repeating the lesser evil nonsense and learn how to leverage your vote for the maximum outcome. Handing your vote out to the lesser evil is why we dont have labor rights or decent health care.
- The genocide is a real fucking problem and America should not be backing it. If you like my dear friend im responding to here maybe learn a more nuanced view for voting instead of being driven by fear. You’ll get better outcomes both in convincing people to support your candidate and in your stress levels.
Man, I hope this changes some minds, but it might be too little too late. She’s had a lot of opportunities to turn things around with the Arab community, and she’s flat out ignored all of them. I’m really worried this will be her version of Hillary’s, “I don’t need to campaign in the Rust Belt,” decision.
She’s had a lot of opportunities to turn things around with the Arab community, and
You DO realize that she can’t campaign on that, right?
I know it’s a little subtle for an American political scene that no longer uses such terms as waffler and carpet-bagger, but these used to be campaign-wrecking slurs.
She’d be labeled a waffler in seconds. And not only would we like her to change her position, but so would the gqp for the political damage. She can’t change until she’s achieved a 4-year contract.
No one is saying she has to do a 180 on Gaza, but she could have let a Palestinian speak at the DNC, or met with the Uncommitted leadership last month. It would take very little effort to make herself look more appealing to Arab Americans than Biden and Trump, but she just didn’t do it.
It’s the lawyer effect, they overanalyze everything and make “safe” bets. Trump is going out there and waving his bare ass around while the Dems sit above wringing their hands about what each micro group might think. They’re too worried about stroking “group leaders” egos than actually addressing real people’s needs.
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It’s simple math: Jewish voting block > Muslim voting block
I don’t think that’s it. Jews tend to live in New York or California, which she has no chance of losing.
A lot of people have grandparents that fought against an antisemitic regime tho.
Yeah, that seems right. I also wonder if they’re chasing the wrong numbers. There was a WSJ article last month that said swing state voters were more confident in Trump’s handling of Gaza than Harris’. It didn’t necessarily mean that they would vote for Trump, and honestly, a lot of the impression that Trump is, “stronger,” on military issues is probably just misogyny, but I could see an overreacting campaign look at and say, “we can’t soften our position on Gaza at all, we need to close that gap!”
It’s the lawyer effect, they overanalyze everything and make “safe” bets. Trump is going out there and waving his bare ass around while the Dems sit above wringing their hands about what each micro group might think.
Except progressives and Muslims.
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Citation needed
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Not the way this works, you knob. You make a claim, YOU back it up. Don’t go handing out homework assignments, this isn’t 5th period civics.
Pro-Palestinian delegates say their request for a speaker at DNC was shut down
Kamala Harris Refused to Meet With Uncommitted About Gaza
Detroit Muslim leader ejected from Kamala Harris rally
Usually, when I’m presented with information I’m unfamiliar with, I take a minute to search it myself before I expose everyone to my ignorance, especially when the comment isn’t directed at me. Anyway, the original commenter was being a bit hyperbolic, but yes, the Harris campaign has made some major snubs towards the Arab community, and she hasn’t done any campaign events with Arab leaders.
Usually, when i make some kind of claim, i back it up with links without being pissy about it. But hey, you managed several little backhanded digs, so go slay queen.
It’s a major complication / fault with running a candidate who is in office already. They cannot deviate from the official position, tone, language, admission of guilt, etc.
I’m not saying I have secret info and Harris would 180 on Israel if she won, just saying she can’t even build breathing room from Biden while being the sitting vp.
This is not an excuse for the administration’s stance, just a reflection on the challenges of running while in office.
Yeah, when she first started running, I figured she was trying not to undermine Biden’s ceasefire negotiations, but I assumed she would find some way to reach out to the Arab communities she needs for Michigan and Wisconsin. Now It’s the 11th hour, and she hasn’t done anything. I just don’t understand why they’re completely ignoring this demographic.
They cannot deviate from the official position, tone, language, admission of guilt, etc.
Just have her hug an Arab child or something.
Why are they so bad at this?
Imo the Arab/Palestinian community would see that for the pandering that it is
Yeah, probably. She should still do it.
Her problem isn’t just with the Palestinian community.
There was a surge of enthusiasm among Democrats when Kamala was first elected because people thought she might take action on Gaza. That enthusiasm soon evaporated when it became apparent that she wouldn’t.
People are desperate for anything and she’s giving them nothing.
Yeah let’s downplay EVERYTHING ELSE she’s campaigned on and redefine democratic excitement to be focused solely on Palestine, and yeah you’re right.
and redefine democratic excitement to be focused solely on Palestine
I’m not redefining anything. I’m telling you: Democrats are not excited about Harris.
“Sure, she supports genocide, but logically you should still vote for her for these other reasons” is not how you win an election.
If people aren’t excited to vote for your candidate, they stay home.
A: Defines Kamala Harris purely in terms of the war Netanyahu started, from an American client state for the last 40 years, which Biden then supported.
B: Points out that Democrats are hugely supportive of Harris, although her failure to break away from all of that and condemn the war in Gaza is a huge black mark, yes.
A: Defines Harris purely in terms of the war et cetera, but this time adding “I’m telling you.”
Sterling.
It’s a complicated issue and explaining it to people who have been spending the last year consuming Iranian propaganda isn’t going to get her anywhere. People want her to say “Israel is evil” and anything other than that will have them screaming “genocide Kamala” in the same way they scream “genocide Joe.”
It’s a complicated issue
“We should condition weapons sales to Israel” is not complicated. Centrists love to pretend that anything they don’t want to do is too complicated for feeble progressive minds to understand.
Yeah it’s really a no-win scenario. Probably why she’s just avoiding the subject altogether.
They cannot deviate from the official position, tone, language, admission of guilt, etc.
Why not? She’s not the Secretary of State, and she’s not running the administration like Cheney. She can differ from Biden. After all, she moved to his right when she said she would appoint a Republican to her cabinet.
Fact is that no matter what position Kamala takes on this, she’ll lose votes somewhere and win votes somewhere. Most Jewish people vote for Democrats. Trump just straight up does not care about Palestine. That’s a much more simplistic take.
Well, first of all, I would be very careful equating Jewish people with support for Israel and their attacks on Gaza. Not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists support Netanyahu. I don’t know the numbers for sure, but I would bet that Evangelicals and military hawks make up a larger base of pro-Israel voters than the Jewish population.
The thing is, Biden’s policy, from a material position, is essentially, “There is almost nothing Israel could do that would limit our military support,” while Trump’s position is, “There is absolutely nothing Israel could do that would limit our military support.” If you’re the kind of voter that would be put off by any criticism of Israel, you’re probably voting for Trump no matter what.
Like, sure, I’d Harris started chanting, “From the river to the sea!” and demanding the immediate decolonization of the Israel, yeah, she’d lose a lot of voters. But if she had taken a position like, “Israel has a right to defend itself, but the bloodshed in Gaza has gone on long enough, and we must acknowledge that the Netanyahu administration has been a major obstacle in ceasefire negotiations,” she would have been massively more appealing to Palestinian supporters, and she would have only risked hard-liners who, again, almost certainly have gone for Trump anyway. Instead, she told Netanyahu that she would, “not be silent,” on Palestinian suffering, and since then, has been mostly silent on Palestinian suffering. It’s like she was trying to appeal to no one on this issue.
if she had taken a position like, “Israel has a right to defend itself, but the bloodshed in Gaza has gone on long enough, and we must acknowledge that the Netanyahu administration has been a major obstacle in ceasefire negotiations,” she would have been massively more appealing to Palestinian supporters
Thing is that she doesn’t really have to. She’s already massively more attractive to Palestinian supporters than Trump or not voting. That’s the problem with a two-party system with only two real choices.
Polling does not back that up; she’s two points behind Trump with Arab Americans and in serious danger of losing Michigan. There is a very real chance that the her position on Gaza will cost her this election.
There has been a lot of talk to pressure Democrats on the Arab issue, including during the primaries. At the end of the day, the Democratic agenda is much more friendly toward Palestine than the Republican agenda. Most Arab-Americans are fully aware of that and it will probably show on election day. But they may as well try to get as many concessions as possible before the election by threatening to withhold their vote. Makes sense.
I get what you’re saying, but that’s just an assumption. You’re assuming that they’ll show up for Harris, just like Hillary assumed she didn’t need to campaign in the Rust Belt. You may be right, but I wouldn’t gamble the Presidency on it again.
Not that I’m not glad, but this kind of endorsement needs time to permeate, and could’ve shut up a large chunk of disingenuous contrarians a MONTH ago.
I don’t agree that the disingenuous contrarians would give a shit.
How is her getting this endorsement over Trump stunning? It’s a no-fucking-shit development
Because somehow there are Muslims and Arab-Americans who have convinced themselves that voting for the guy who instituted the “Muslim Ban” and called their countries “shitholes” is better than voting for Harris.
There is a reason why Netanyahu and his war cabinet haven’t listened to people (including in Biden’s administration) pushing a cease fire. It’s because Netanyahu knows that if Trump wins, he will have permission to “finish what he started” in Gaza. Then Trump and Kushner will build golf courses there with Saudi money.
Because for people who lost loved ones in Gaza thanks to American aid and weapons, with her agreement and approval, it’s a painful thing for them to give.
And a clear indication of how terrifying the prospect is, for them, of what Trump might do to their loved ones, if he gets in.
More than 100 Arizona Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and progressive Democrats and community leaders have signed a letter making the case for those reluctant to support Kamala Harris against Donald Trump.
Agreed. I am not stunned by this. “We have to pick the less shitty option” is not new, and it does not interest me. I’d be interested in, say, the world actually getting better, rather than just getting worse at either a slower or faster speed.
Yeah but that’s not the choice offered to you. And you can only make the choices you are offered.
That is the perspective of one who does not see beyond conditioned existence.
You can vote for the least worst candidate, and also work to build momentum for the radical change we actually need. Just withholding a vote doesn’t achieve anything. The political class isn’t going to look at low turnout and say “damn, elections are getting unpopular, we’d better revolutionize the political system.” Vote, and also work on building popular support for real change.
and also work to build momentum for the radical change we actually need
Humans tend to prefer money to compassion. And that money comes from business practices that make the world less suitable for humans to live in. I think humans will kill themselves before they love each other.
I wish these .ml clowns would hold their impotent revolution stirring for ONE critical election. Once trump is gone and MAGA gets told they are unacceptable by a massive blue tsunami, then trump is completely into dementia before he gets another chance to lose, then you can go be a hero and fight against our interests at home in favor of…still doing genocide…or whatever ignorant magical change you think is going to happen instead.
If they’re having their revolution by voting in an election they need to brush up on what a revolution is.
yes, this is what makes you suspect they are bot/trolls.
If they know they need a revolution, then actually revolt - with fucking petardes and guillotines; that type of shit. If they’re not ready to do that, they may as well kick trump in the balls first whilst they muster the wherewithal.
"Voting thrd party because voting is broken?! " wtf?
Strawman. You can just ask third party voters what they think their vote will mean.
Same if they think abstentionism positively impacts their chances of revolution.
And then the next Trump will stand up, there is a long waiting line already.
What nees to change is the game, the rules. Elections should be counting ALL votes and comparing those, not voting for guys that will elect your guy. Elections should NOT be winner takes all, NOT first past the post. The US needs 30 political parties, not two, not three. The entire political system needs to be redesigned and rebuilt from the ground up
They’ve already proven repeatedly that other nutjob candidates just don’t hit the same for his base
And term limits at all stages, right up to supreme court justices.
Absolutely
Would that mean some sort of coalition government?
Dont disagree ive been actively campaigning for rcv etc in my state for years. Thankfully i can do two things at the same time.
Yup, and under one there is a chance, with a ton of effort, of changing it. Also, there are only two options. A broken but fixable democracy if you vote Kamala and trump if you vote anyone else.
It’s depressing as fuck that so many Democrats put this all down as a Trump problem and think his demise will make the slightest bit of difference.
As long as we have Democrats like Kamala, we will have Republicans like Trump. This didn’t start with Trump, and it won’t end with Trump.
Now go ahead and down vote my post and forget I ever said it so we can be right back here in another 4 years.
As long as we have Democrats like Kamala, we will have Republicans like Trump.
Ah, this makes sense, since Trump didn’t appear before Harris did. Smart thing to say.
Democrats like Kamala. She is hardly a departure from the Democratic establishment brand.
If you insist!
See you then.
“Guys, I get it, the Holocaust is bad, but if we vote for Himmler, he will stop it. Hitler will do the holocaust but even more bad!”
Edit: sandbox this not directed at you. Just clarifying.
Last I checked no one has suggested supporting trump instead. Seek help you’ve been seeing things that are not real.
To everyone else show up, vote with your heart. I live in a safe state, i still voted down ballot for the majority of my reps. If you’re in a similar situation please consider doing the same and contacting your reps and letting them know why. Dont let Kamala and the dnc force you into supporting a genocide its not worth it.
If you’re in a swing state do what you need to do to protect your local community in whatever way you can. Yes, including supporting harris if thats what it’ll take, despite shitty of a candidate she is1. I promise you people like myself are not upset with people supporting kamala. I have no interest in shaming you for voting.
But if you think trying to stop a genocide is unreasonable, well… You’re the problem, and i will happily call you out for your disgusting bullshit.
1 Kamala has remained uncommited to labor. (No policies for pto,sick leave, healthcare reform, workers rights.
Kamala has remained uncommited to keeping khan the best head of the FTC we’ve seen in my life. See related mentions about labor they’re coupled.
Kamala has done more to harm the muslim community than just supporting a genocide shes actively suppressed them in our own country, if she’s willing to throw one minority group under the bus shes willing to throw others.
Why when i can do it now? The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now.
If kamala loses thats her fault. Not mine. She could have demonstrated support for Palestinians she has decided to snub a minority group at literally every turn.
No one is asking kamala to commit to a course she has no control over. Whether we sell arms to Israel is squarely in the presidents hands. We have laws in the books that cover this exact situation. Kamala needs to ‘follow the law’ as she is often quoted saying.
Now i suggest you go get checked for mental health issues as you clearly think committing a genocide is perfectly acceptable and that people voting against it are the problem. No one has forced Kamala into this position but herself. No one has forced you into your insanity except yourself.
You’re not trying to plant a tree, you’re trying to burn down the forest.
We live in the most depressing timeline. Please vote for genociders. They won’t stop the genocide. But they also won’t turn America overnight into a dictatorship. It’s the best of 2 profoundly horrifying and depressing options. Another decade of international American war crimes awaits either way. But at the least, the status quo for Americans is better than fascism.
With a nation as powerful as the US, it’s never going to be one issue, and the options are rarely going to be simply good things versus simply bad things - at least until we have a form of democracy that is more representative and we do a lot of work on a, let’s just admit it, undereducated, overly propagandized, and far too distracted electorate.
Tankies: “B-but now we can’t swing the election to Trump with our constant whining and unrealistic demands!”
Trump will cause millions to die in the middle East and in Ukraine. Being pro peace and pro Trump is impossible. These people are either massive, massive morons or saboteurs.
Indeed he will, and so will harris. Biden has slow walked support for Ukraine as well.
I’m sorry Kamala has decided to be a shitty human (its hardly just gaza that has caused my vote to be casted for a 3rd party). But thats the way the cookie crumbled. I can do more to protect people on these shores via other means of direct action. Kamala changing positions on gaza is all i can do for my Palestinian brothers and sisters.
Your third party vote causes waaaay more damage to “people on these shores” (and on all other “shores”) than any possible direct action could mitigate. Any legal action, anyway.
If you think changing a position on genocide is unreasonable, you are the problem. No one is saying dont protect israel, no one is saying they cant defend themselves. Neither situation applies atm. Israel is the aggressor at this point.
Have you ever noticed how everyone goes on and on about the right to defend themselves and then conveniently ignoring that as soon as the threat is neutralized self defense no longer applies?
Israel is the antagonist at this point. They dont have to keep invading new regions. They’ve managed to kill more hostages than they’ve rescued.
They keep killing journalist, doctors, nurses, etc from international organizations.
If you think telling kamala and the Democrats to stop supporting this is unreasonable: You. Are. The. Problem.
Refusing to support genocide is an unrealistic demand, and it also makes you a tankie, despite the fact that tankies are known for refusing to acknowledge historical genocides.
😂 imagine thinking not supporting a genocide is an unreasonable demand. Say the quiet part out loud. Phew.
Seek help child. You certainly need it.
I think you misunderstood my point. I am absolutely opposed to genocide and all those who support it.
Brutal. You have to support the one who kills half of your children because the other one will kill all of them.
Lol no i dont. Id be going after both of them.
You’d vote for both of them? That wouldn’t work out well in your favor, they’d just throw the ballot out.
no, I’d ‘go after’ them. not vote, not support, actively fight against. as i am doing now.
you: ‘Excuse me dear these two murders are running for office, I have to let one of them murder our children’ jfc you poor soul.
Tell me you don’t understand the concept of harm reduction without telling me you don’t understand the concept of harm reduction.
yawn tired trope. there are other levers to pull for reducing essentially every other harm. its clear you dont understand how to effectively leverage your vote to reduce harm and are supportive of a genocide. congrats i guess?
Let me know when you’re no longer a willing participant in a genocide and then we can talk about harm reduction.
I’m as much a willing participant in the genocide as anyone else who intends to vote, unfortunately in the USA right now we are the way we are.
I can vote for the party that has people willing to address the elephant in the room, literally anything else is being a more willing participant.
Anyways, get fucked.
Anyways, get fucked
Daily. 🤗 Dont worry harris will still win here. But maybe adding my vote to the pile here has convinced my local reps to consider withholding israel support in the future . Hopefully you can do the same.
But its likely you’re Happy harris is bombing innocents.
You need to look at game theory.
The only two candidates that matter if Harris and Trump, and you’ll realize that the only candidate that makes sense to vote for is Harris
oh god another game theory twat. lord please spare me another childish lecture. 😮💨
- you’re assuming my goal is influence who wins. (its not)
- you’re assuming the only outcome in play is who wins. (its not)
- yes I’ve studied game theory and that professor was a dunce too.
You don’t even know the game. Which you may wish to know is an important aspect of game theory. so spare me the trivialities of your intellect.
How would you leverage your vote in this instance?
You: “I don’t like these two candidates so I’m going to do everything I can to ensure the worst one wins!”
I’m going to ensure people know they are other options than voting for genocide. if harris loses to fucking trump as a result, that’s her fault not mine. learn to place blame were it properly belongs: On the person committed to a genocide. I didnt force her down this path. I didnt force you down this path. You and her choose it willingly.
Let me know when you’re willing to stop supporting a genocide and then we can talk.
I’m going to ensure people know they are other options
I haven’t heard of any viable option, so you’ve failed. The only way to accomplish what you want to accomplish, what we all want to accomplish, is to elect enough local politicians that support massive electoral overhaul to disrupt the two party system. FPtP and winner-take-all must go, but we’re never gonna get there by throwing our votes away to unviable third parties. In the meantime, we do the best with what we have and we let logic rule our decisions, not emotion. Try it!
Viable isnt the goal. The goal is to withholding support for genocidal candidate keep up.
You can absolutely do that by supporting 3rd party candidates.
- If you live in a 💜 state lie to your candidates and exit polls, say you do not support harris support instead and cite genocide for the reason. But shes likely your best bet so no hurt feelings either way you vote. But remember its Harris’ responsibility to earn your vote through policies and positions. She doesnt have many this year besides not being a fascist and that sadly probably enough in those states honestly. To the Arab community her treatment of your community has been horrible and disgusting and I’m sorry I’ll continue fighting for your family as i can.
- If you live in a 💙 state, and most of us do, there are 16, consider with holding your vote for harris. Let your critters know what you’re doing and why.
- If you live in a💩state im sorry 😔. I have no advice for you except be as active as you can local elections.
Hey it’s cool you can just say you support Trump, no need for the extra steps.
Hey its cool you support genocides! no need for the extra steps.
Disgusting. Make a case against the fucking genocide then to get more votes.
This is terrible. We need better candidates.
The only thing disgusting here is that you assume you’ve got a moral high ground and superiority over these Arab, Muslim, and Palestinian community leaders. I trust their opinion.
I’m tired of champagne socialists pretending to be all for progressive causes and then they act like they know better than us brown people and are our wiser saviors. As a brown person, that makes you no better than a Republican in my eyes. Stop using us as a cudgel and patronizing us instead of listening to us. Strip away your imperialist mindset and listen to AAPI people to try and win for once.
Pot, kettle, etc
-signed a reluctant Harris voter
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Who are you to believe you speak for all brown people
How ignorant are you of people with Stockholm syndrome who have collaborated with their tormentors?
Jewish collaboration with Nazi Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany
