I for one have stopped posting any content to lemmy.ml communities.

  • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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    18 days ago

    Here’s a list of a few .ml communities and potential replacements:

    Side note the main issue with .ml is transparency. It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.

    EDIT: as people noticed I’m not including .world comms to not encourage even further concentration of activity into the largest instance. Decentralisation is important. Also I’m adding stuff that you guys suggest.

    * for specialised memes, as the category is rather large:

    • mp3@lemmy.ca
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      19 days ago

      I had the audacity to say that the deaths of Tiannanmen’s Square were inexcusable, no matter who started the violence, and my comment was removed under instance rule 1 (bigotry)… like wat 😂

    • cm0002@lemmy.worldOP
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      19 days ago

      The .ml transparency thing is a symptom, not a root cause. The admins like and even participate in the .ml rhetoric. The rules ambiguity is intentional.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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        19 days ago

        We could argue that the root cause is that .ml admins pretending that their instance’s target audience is wider than it actually is.

      • 5in1k@lemm.ee
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        18 days ago

        It’s a great advertisement for communism that’s for sure. They haven’t even gotten real power and it already resembles the worst of what communism offers. They’re a bunch of wannabe Ceausescu’s.

    • awwwyissss@lemm.ee
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      19 days ago

      the main issue with .ml is transparency authoritarian propaganda with full-throated support from the admins

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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      19 days ago

      If they were banning people for shit posting on a communism community I wouldn’t have a problem. Its when you get removed banned from all communities because you said you don’t like there crappy memes

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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        19 days ago

        Or even if they had an instance-wide rule saying “don’t criticise Russia or China here”. It’s fine as long as the rules are clear.

        But no, instead they libel the users criticising either, claiming that they violated rule #1 (TL;DR “no bigots”). Even when the criticism is clearly against the government.

        And then you get a bunch of 11yos eating that ban message for breakfast, because they’re full of gullibleness and don’t get the purpose of this utterance dumb fucks.

        • OpenStars@piefed.social
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          19 days ago

          Tbf, that admin telling someone to kill themselves wasn’t exactly a high mark for their ethics imho.

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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            19 days ago

            It isn’t a high mark, I agree. But while the “kill you are self lol.” thing could be just an admin in a really shitty day, this lack of transparency is consistent behaviour.

            • OpenStars@piefed.social
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              19 days ago

              I get what you are saying: shittiness that happens daily is a more consistent pattern than something that happens ONCE.

              On the other hand, an admin telling someone to literally kill themselves is such an extreme event that it might be grounds for their removal as an admin?

              It’s an age-old philosophy problem: which is worse, stealing daily vs. actually killing someone once?

              Or is that a trick question, since both are kinda shitty, no?

              In any case, what happens when someone does BOTH of them?

              The answer is ofc literally nothing, when said person is protected by the instance admins who are also the developers of this codebase. I wonder what would have happened though if Huffman was caught saying something similar to the users of Reddit? Yeah, nothing, that’s right - it’s not like we would leave Reddit or anything:-P. (Except I did, and now I’ve left Lemmy too, hello from PieFed!:-D)

              • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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                19 days ago

                Yup, they are both shitty, and grounds to remove an admin.

                However when it’s a single event there’s still the chance that it won’t happen again, as the admin could regret it. There’s still grounds for “this won’t affect me, as a user, in the future”.

                And when it’s both, as you said, it gets even worse.

              • Scubus@sh.itjust.works
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                18 days ago

                Afaik the admins are the creators of lemmy right? Or are they just the creators of a particular instance? If its the first i would imagine they are the only ones that can de-admin themselves, and if its the latter i would imagine no one can de-admin them

            • OpenStars@piefed.social
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              18 days ago

              I believe this comment is the original, in which case I misremembered the situation slightly: the admin wasn’t telling the OP to kill themselves, but rather stating that they (the admin) wanted to kill the OP directly. They also doubled down on that further down, and tripled down still further, e.g. stating “I hope you die soon” (all while claiming that people with PTSD could have been triggered by a fictional depiction of an unannounced kiss among friends, yet ignoring how a mod stating irl that they wish to shoot a poster would also be a much worse trigger, for violence).

              A short synopsis is that a comic, written by a Latin American woman fwiw (Latin American people are more prone to touch each other, especially in relationships), about a game scenario wherein a girl kisses a guy friend, is removed and the admin tells the OP that they want to kill them (specifically, shoot them). All of this seems predicated on the misunderstanding that in the game you need to reach 10 hearts prior to being able to kiss someone, whereas that is actually at 8 hearts and by 10 hearts you can already safely ask for their hand in marriage… or something like that. Anyway the (fictious) guy in this comic about the game has already asked the girl out on a date at the level 8 marker, offering her a bouquet of flowers, which she accepts, and then the scenario in question occurs at the level 10 marker. This is by no means a “sexual assault” - they are in an established relationship, which took effort to build up, requiring back and forth signals from both sides, each acquiescing and signaling a readiness to not only continue it but to escalate it further. But the admin did not research the game, and instead went off unhinged with this wish for OP to die by their own hand.

              There is an ENORMOUS amount of additional backstory details in https://lemm.ee/post/45248880 if you want to read more. Ignore Lvxferre and I’s tangent on moderation practices in hexbear but definitely pay attention to Lvxferre’s top-voted explanation of the context and below that a direct discussion with the actual admin in question, or at least the beginnings of one though the admin immediately ceased responding upon the first pushback of their practices. Also here’s an extremely relevant & helpful comment: https://lemm.ee/post/45248880/15580086, and below that an additional conversation between the admin and the OP, wherein despite how vehemently the admin goes hard against OP for “sexual assault”, in describing his own comment advocating for murder of the OP he says simply “It’s just a comment bro” (the irony there is palpable!).

              Some of the original is now impossible to follow properly bc despite the admin continuing to get triggered by OP’s words in defense of their actions, we can now see only the admin’s side of the story, as OP’s have all been forcibly removed. However, that’s enough imho, bc no matter what the defense was seems irrelevant given that level of rhetoric levied against OP, describing their murder at the hands of the admin. And all for a (comic about a game about a) kiss that was reciprocated hence consensual to begin with, and among people who have already begun to become romantically involved, that the admin decided must be described as none other than sexual assault.

              Don’t get lost in all the details and miss the main point though: even if the admin had been correct about the kiss, how would that justify their own actions to say how they wanted to murder OP and hopes that they die soon?

              People continually report being disappointed by the moderation practices going on at lemmy.ml, hence moving communities off of it is a self-protective measure to try to keep Lemmy alive rather than allow such to send people away, possibly back to Reddit.

              • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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                18 days ago

                That comic is cute as hell lmao

                I love seeing kissless virgins explain that any kind of affection given without explicit verbal consent is sexual violence, no matter the circumstances

                I need you to understand that posts like these can absolutely wreck someones day and pose a barrier to the site and lemmy as a whole. So best case: it’s ableist to put it up.

                This reads like a character in a conservative political cartoon. Complaining about ableism while simultaneously telling someone you want to murder them. If this is who we’ve got moderating our online spaces, the left is fucking cooked

                • OpenStars@piefed.social
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                  18 days ago

                  I mean, tbf they aren’t actually “leftist”, most people agree, just play pretending to be such without seeming to really understand what that even means.

                  Also I probably went way overboard with the explanation bc the mere fact that the girl in the comic immediately reciprocates tells all the backstory needed that she did actually want it - she was merely surprised at first, not shocked and horrified as a triggering event would have been.

                  Anyway, good luck getting this admin removed - they are more entrenched on lemmy.ml than an admin would be at Reddit. Although similarly, we don’t have to remain associated with the likes of Reddit lemmy.ml and can move on to better things.

                  Sort of, except that the mod tools on Lemmy reportedly suck, especially over instance barriers. The admins seem to not be prioritizing that, which btw I am 100% in support of the fact that that is their right to do so - we are using their codebase after all (well, you are, on PieFed I’m not:-), and if we want better, it would be up to us to build it, either by contributing to Lemmy or one of its alternatives like PieFed or Mbin (although Sublinks seems dead maybe?).

        • Serinus@lemmy.world
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          19 days ago

          That rule becomes clear very quickly when you’re familiar with Lemmy. (Unless you’re defederated from .ml.)

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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            19 days ago

            It is not enough; it should be explicit. Users should be able to know the rules of an instance before they even interact with it.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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        19 days ago

        I’m avoiding linking lemmy.world instances. We shouldn’t put even more eggs in that basket, you know.

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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            19 days ago

            Nobody is throwing eggs out. I’m recommending one basket instead of another, that’s it.

            • Serinus@lemmy.world
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              19 days ago

              Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.

              If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.

              Get a game developer to start posting their stuff on your new instance. Get celebrities to start posting their AMAs somewhere. Get big newspapers to start their own instance.

              Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have. Federation is a feature, not a purpose, and it’s already doing its job by making .ml less relevant for a good reason.

              • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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                19 days ago

                Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.

                Yeah, because people don’t totally cross-post stuff all the time, or subscribe to multiple comms around the same topic.

                If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.

                If you’re that pissed that I’m not listing .world comms, to the point of trying to boss me around (see emphasis on imperative), you can list yourself those comms. With blackjack and hookers.

                Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.

                Okay, full stop here. Cut off the crap - in no moment I’m trying to “kill” those communities in .world, and you’re being a disingenuous liar (or worse, a bloody moron) for claiming otherwise.

                Not going to waste my time further with you.

              • Blaze (he/him)@lemmy.cafe
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                18 days ago

                Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.

                !showsandmovies@lemm.ee has twice the number of active users compared to !television@lemmy.world , still people won’t move to it, keeping both communities active and preventing grow of a single community on that topic.

                If you’re so in favor of growing single communities on a topic, could you please consider redirecting to the lemm.ee community? It’s not like LW is lacking in active communities

                Same for !movies@lemm.ee and !movies@lemmy.world

                • Serinus@lemmy.world
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                  18 days ago

                  I’d generally be in favor of some kind of cooperation agreement. I’d certainly promote the larger community over the smaller one.

                  We absolutely have allowed moderators to close and redirect their community off of LW…

          • Empricorn@feddit.nl
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            18 days ago

            Did they suggest moving to the random.trsh website? This is still Lemmy, it’s still federalized and non-corporate and decentralized.

    • Sergio@slrpnk.net
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      18 days ago

      memes:

      and for more specialized memes:

      world news: I realize you’re avoiding lemmy.world to promote decentralization which is why you’re listing !news@beehaw.org, but note that beehaw defederated itself from lemmy.world and from several others?

    • An odd choice on their part is dessalines upvoting every comment that corresponds to a removal or ban. Feels almost as though they’ve Jerry-rigged their moderation code to an extreme degree in order to keep up with the day job levels of moderation they’re doing.

    • Empricorn@feddit.nl
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      18 days ago

      Hey. Hey, people. Just selecting each link and subscribing will vastly improve your experience here in the fediverse. Do it now, before you forget!

    • Mothra@mander.xyz
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      18 days ago

      Hello! That’s a very lovely formatted table with links, however, clicking on them does nothing for me whilst clicking on links otherwise in the replies does take me to the respective communities. I don’t know if it’s just me though.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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        18 days ago

        That’s weird - are you accessing lemmy through a browser, or some app?

        Check if it works here: !funny@sh.itjust.works

        If it does then it’s the table interacting weirdly with the links, I can fix it by removing the table.

        • OpenStars@piefed.social
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          18 days ago

          Fwiw all the links work fine for me from both PieFed and Lemmy.World base web UI even without an account. So it must be an app issue, and all the “standard” methods of access work.

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyz
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            18 days ago

            It must be an app issue then. (Certainly not an instance issue, as Mothra is in the same instance as I do.)

            Just to be safe I’m going to convert the thing into a bullet points list.

  • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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    18 days ago

    I criticized the CCP on lemmy.ml and got called racist and got banned lmao

    Edit: thank you for the link, Lazycog@sopuli.xyz!

    https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=2602275

    I stand by every single comment that’s been removed from this platform. Some of them were removed for good reason, one of them was a brain fart that I shouldn’t have posted in the first place, but I’m happy to have y’all investigate my moderation history

    ETA: If you read this, and then replied to a comment that’s already been removed from a community I’m banned from, you’re an idiot. I literally can’t interact with you. Why not reply to this comment?

    • PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de
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      18 days ago

      I’ve been called a racist, a homophobe (???) and worst of all a liberal and a fascist (same thing apparently /s) all because I insisted that China isn’t worth simping for.

      What I hate most about tankies is that they are the only true leftists and anybody who disagrees with them is just a poser and a liberal. Especially anarchists.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        18 days ago

        The thing I hate about tankies is the same thing I hate about fascists, every other living thing on earth shares a common ancestor with them. I propose we exile them from the evolutionary tree, return them to the dirt they truly are so that they may be of some use to all living creatures.

        • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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          18 days ago

          Tankies essentially have more in common with other fascists than they do other leftists.

          I once joined a stalinist discord. 3 weeks later it was a community of trans-Hitlerites who required an ID to join.

          Is it 100% accurate to write communism off as fascism hiding under leftist wool? No, not 100% accurate, but it sure saves a hell of a lot of time.

    • TGhost [She/Her]@lemm.ee
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      18 days ago

      Banned starman2112 @sh.itjust.works from the community 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone reason: Weirdo who defends genocide, because only young people are aginast it

      Thanks for the link and the laugh! 😂

      It’s amusing to see the average user criticizing .ml while ignoring the bad behavior of others. LMAO!

      Weirdo, why im not surprised at all 😂

        • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
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          18 days ago

          They’re very good at that. They’ve done the same elsewhere in this thread too, unsurprisingly.

        • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          18 days ago

          That one was warranted. While I am in favor of doxxing nazis, I understand the legal imperative to nuke threads where nazis are getting doxxed

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        Hey, uhm, I know you’re gonna react negatively to this, but could you answer me one simple yes or no question?

        Are you pro-Russian?

          • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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            We have so much in common! I wish we had elected someone who wouldn’t simultaneously give Ukraine over to Russia, and ensure the total annihilation of the Palestinian people, and remove all access to gender affirming care for trans people in the country I live in.

            But I guess the fact that I thought we should vote for the person who would kill fewer people means I support genocide, at least according to the 196 mod team

            • TGhost [She/Her]@lemm.ee
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              17 days ago

              For your last paragraph,
              That’s a false matter and conflict as a stranger to your country.
              The real issue, isn’t you or non-voters, the real issue is the fucking trump voters.

              Don’t let them divide us on this one.

                • antiykns@thelemmy.club
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                  17 days ago

                  Sorry your favorite genocider lost, sweetie, but as a non-american, I find it undecent as fuck to bring out your country’s politics under news about dead children. Read the fucking room.

                • TGhost [She/Her]@lemm.ee
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                  17 days ago

                  I can understand that claim, because when you search you can see a lot of things not good concerning Democrats.

                  The politics under biden isn’t friendly to Palestinian and in a way say “that’s ok Israel” ,
                  Kamala didn’t stance a clear position on that.

                  And by the past they were in meetings not with Palestinian’s representatives but just sionists.

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
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            18 days ago

            Explicitly mentioning it, despite already saying you support Ukraine. I like it. Thanks.

            • TGhost [She/Her]@lemm.ee
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              18 days ago

              I should not explain my opinions/positions regarding this,
              As a trans person, i cant be on the putin’s side you see ;)

              But, i hate to see things like “kill the russians” etc,
              Do we accept “kill jews/israelien” ? No, and in good reason,
              Why should we accept then the “kill all russians” etc ?

              • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                18 days ago

                Well, there’s a lot of Mexicans in the US who voted for Trump. There’s even a meme regarding people voting for leopards eating their faces, so you know, you can’t trust people to be reasonable always.

                Who has said “kill all Russians”? Who has said “kill all jews”? (Aside from Hitler and his ilk)

                I think it would be disingenuous to pretend like the majority of people are for massacring Israelis or Russians, when they’re clearly advocating for stopping the genocide in Gaza and Russia backing off from their attack on Ukraine. They broke international laws. Both of those parties, that is. That’s just… not on. Being against those actions and the people who perpetrated them doesn’t mean you’re advocating for “an eye for an eye” (a genocide for a genocide).

                • TGhost [She/Her]@lemm.ee
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                  18 days ago

                  Well, there’s a lot of Mexicans in the US who voted for Trump. There’s even a meme regarding people voting for leopards eating their faces, so you know, you can’t trust people to be reasonable always

                  Who has said “kill all Russians”? Who has said “kill all jews”? (Aside from Hitler and his ilk)

                  I agree that the negative impacts of capitalism are significant, which may explain why some Mexican and Black voters support Trump. This phenomenon is perplexing to me, and I struggle to understand it.

                  Regarding hate speech, I want to address the troubling comments I’ve seen on platforms like Lemmy, where users have made statements such as “Time to kill more Russians.” This kind of rhetoric should not be tolerated, just as we do not accept antisemitism. It is essential to uphold a standard that rejects all forms of hate.

                  The problem is that these harmful comments often receive upvotes, which can mislead and confuse members of the Lemmy community, including its administrators. I frequently observe this dynamic at play.

                  Concerning the cries regarding such instances (ML, HB, LM), I believe that if these individuals are coherent in their beliefs, they should also oppose bigotry and racism, which can sometimes be found in other communities, such as on LW, Sopuli, etc.

                  There is clearly a lack of moderation in many instances, and this needs to be addressed to foster a more inclusive and respectful environment.

    • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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      18 days ago

      The Winnie the Pooh stuff is just completely made up by Western propaganda. Also, how hard is “yellow face is racist”, when saying an Asian looks like a cartoon with yellow skin?

  • can@sh.itjust.works
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    19 days ago

    As long as it’s not only lemmy.world communities you start growing. Centralization won’t lead to good outcomes anywhere.

    • cm0002@lemmy.worldOP
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      Absolutely! Grow a community on any instance that doesn’t allow the kind of users that lemmy.ml does I say.

      I think we gave them too much power by making their communities as big as we did

          • can@sh.itjust.works
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            Or more subtly:

            I can’t even say life’s a bitch over there without being filtered because of misogyny which I guess? But that’s not my intent and I don’t think the majority read it with that connotation. What if I just want to quote a Nas classic?

            It gets dumber: last I checked their word filter doesn’t pay any regard to a comment’s set language so even If I set my comment to French “retard” will be filtered on ml communities and to their users regardless of where I comment.

            Je suis en retard
            Becomes
            Je suis en removed

            Edit: actually, let’s see if this has been fixed, test French comment in reply to this:

            Edit2: lmao

        • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          19 days ago

          I was in an argument with some .ml tankie yesterday, and they had the gall to say that “free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere,” in response to a comment saying that the CCP censors speech. They didn’t like my assertion that that statement also applies to Nineteen Eighty-Four’s Ingsoc party. It’s technically true, that free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated in Oceania. It’s just that the government considers any dissent threatening.

          • My last straw was when I made a meme on their meme instance that had no Asians, anyone related to Asia, or racism in it. And they removed the post with 500+ up votes and a healthy discussion, because my title was “Rice.”

            They literally told me rice, the word by itself, is racist. I just chose a random word for the title to fill the blank.

    • Serinus@lemmy.world
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      19 days ago

      Yeah, we’d hate to make a good alternative when everyone can just use Bluesky and Meta.

      The hate for .world simply because of size doesn’t make sense to me. It’s fine to make new (unique) communities elsewhere, but shunning the biggest successful communities on .world to try to grow empty communities on other instances is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

      If you’re constantly shunning the biggest instance simply for being big, you’ll end up killing Lemmy.

      • can@sh.itjust.works
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        19 days ago

        There’s more than just being big, those things may not matter to you, or even the majority, but I’ve heard enough gripes repeated to know some people are bothered.

        The flip flopping on policies without clear transparency bothered some people but tbh I forgave that as growing pains of being in charge of a new popular platform.

        The one mentioned more often is how they’re one of the main ones to federate with Meta’s Threads. Integration isn’t really there right now anyway but every other major Lemmy instance has preemptively blocked them already:

        source

        • Serinus@lemmy.world
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          19 days ago

          I can respect the Threads thing. That’s a valid reason other than “we need to be even smaller”.

          • can@sh.itjust.works
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            18 days ago

            It’s not that we need to be smaller, but we benefit if we all grow similarly, or at least the community distribution does.

          • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            18 days ago

            we need to be even smaller

            That’s not the argument, please don’t trust it needlessly like that

            The point is that having everything be on one instance results in the centralized abuse of power we saw with reddit

            Per example: .world has some famously bad power mods (a certain soaring mollusk comes to mind) same as reddit, growing communities outside of that centralized area gives us a place to run when they finally snap completely, as is inevitable with power mods

            This is very easy to do thanks to how Lemmy works

            • Serinus@lemmy.world
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              18 days ago

              That mod has one political community. That’s it. “They” appears to be one mod of one community that you have an issue with.

      • aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee
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        I don’t think most of the data in the network should be hosted by a single legal entity, that’s just unhealthy even if the protocol is open. It’s also my main complaint about bluesky- technically open protocol, de facto centralization.

    • Sunshine (she/her)@lemmy.ca
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      18 days ago

      We need to call on more servers to defederate with lemmy.ml if we want more people to join the platform, I dont want my friends’ first experience of the platform to be a tankie post.

      • OpenStars@piefed.social
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        100% of the people that I’ve recommended Lemmy to have admonished me for even so much as having mentioned it, citing the extremist rhetoric that calls for violent upheaval of all capitalist systems in the Western world.

        If I do a Google search (yuck I know), Lemmy.ml is the 4th hit, and the top hit for an actual instance. On it, the default view shows only Local posts so… yup, that’s what a day-1 noob would see, is that instance making fun of capitalism especially the USA.

        From the actual top instance, Lemmy.World, those posts make up a significantly smaller percentage of the feed, but how would people know that? And they aren’t nothing either.

        Also, blocking an instance from Lemmy does very little to curb the onslaught of toxicity from it: that merely mutes the communities hosted there, whereas the users are still free to harass you, triggering notifications, vote to influence the visibility of your content, etc. I was browsing All and made the mistake of replying to a comment in ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net one day, and then did that again in lemmygrad.ml, and each time received replies for WEEKS and WEEKS afterwards. I almost quit the fediverse entirely:-(. Browsing from All, how was I supposed to know what those communities, or instances, were all about - was that truly “my” fault for being ignorant? Either way, I almost left, so I understand why none of the irl people I mention Lemmy to will stay either.

        The people arguing against defederation are ignoring how users can be harassed here against their consent, and since no other alternatives are being made available on Lemmy to deal with the situation, defederation remains as the only option left.

        (Side-note: PieFed does offer several intriguing alternatives, including showing the sidebar text below every post so that someone knows what the community standards are, even arriving at the post from All rather than going through the community page first, and labelling certain instances with special text, e.g. for Beehaw it says:

        This post is hosted on beehaw.org which has higher standards of behaviour than most places. Be nice.

        with that link to the exact text offered by the instance admins describing their alternative and unusual moderation practices in their own words; and another is in labelling users to allow democratization of moderation rather than a binary remove/retain decision - although while all of these experimental features are awesome, PieFed’s UI is quite a bit behind Lemmy’s so not quite ready for the masses.)

        How do I block users from an instance of my choice?

        • oatscoop@midwest.social
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          A hexbear user “called me out” in chapotraphouse for “transphobia” for a comment I made pointing out how insane it is that the hexbear team was calling the admin/mods of blahaj.zone “transphobic” – the admin and most of the mod team are actual trans people.

          So I replied to the callout by saying I’m a landlord (I’m not) and asking how much I should charge for rent as a “card carrying leftist.” Replied to a few responses about how I’m a one of the good landlords and providing an essential service at a reasonable price.

          My idea was to bait the worst offenders, and it worked. I waited for the replies to roll in, then blocked every single user that commented on that post. Anyone that DMed me about it got blocked too. A couple weeks later I blocked the hexbear and lemmygrad instances in my user settings.

          It worked great and I haven’t had many issues since.

          • OpenStars@piefed.social
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            18 days ago

            Haha, but I do note some problems with that approach. For one, it helps only you, leaving new users to have to repeat your success one by one. New users mostly in my experience won’t stick around long enough to even want to do so, and rather 100% of the people I’ve told have turned away from Lemmy in disgust.

            For another, they’ll simply swap accounts and be back at it again. They proudly mention such inside the safety of their home instances - one person on lemmygrad.ml even mentioned that they will be building an app specifically for the purpose of using alts to avoid such blocks and defederations. No really means yes to them.

            If anyone is curious, see e.g. the people from the Lemmy.ml instance talking in https://sh.itjust.works/post/26892196. I for one found it hilarious when they kept saying to hit up their DMs (bc their arguments could not stand the light of public inquiry and they knew it?:-P), then when I pointed that out, claimed that they had never done so and asked for proof - like I couldn’t read it happening within the very same post. But I get it, many people won’t bother to read or investigate anything at all, so those tricks really would work on a lazy reader i.e. an average Redditor. Case in point, the recent USA election thinking that Trump’s tariffs will somehow boost the economy, rather than tank it as happened during COVID where supply lines were so dramatically affected (which tbf would have happened anyway, but still the response was pretty lackluster and could have mitigated much of that if even minimal efforts had been expended).

  • hierophant_nihilant@reddthat.com
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    Listen. Just fuckin listen to me. The moment I joined lemmy every enthusiast was singing praise to the fediverse and how it’s easy to maintain the freedom of speach and yada yada yada. What it turned out to be is just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that while lemmy still fucking struggles to even become a mere shadow of reddit. I fucking hate reddit, I think spez should be covered in fire ants, but by god, looking at how insufferable most vocal lemmy users are, I may get back to reddit, probably as many other lemmy users already did.

  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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    “We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view and create a giant centralized echo chamber”!

    Why the fuck does every .world user suddenly want Lemmy to be Reddit?

  • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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    The irony of a community promoting socialism while also instabanning anyone for the slightest wiff of criticism is just chef’s kiss peak representation of why their system is doomed.

    If you can’t withstand the slightest nudge of criticism how are you even going to attempt to provide a governance system based on any kind of economic directive? If Marx could see what you guys have become he’d personally wipe his ass with your lame ml instance

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Seems like the ultimate nature of leftist ideology is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen, and everyone has a slightly differing philosophy that they refuse to budge on. So they fight eachother instead of the existential fascist threat.

    • dariusj18@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      It’s because socialism does not stand up to outside pressures. It always turns towards benevolent totalitarianism as a method of defending itself from bad actors.

    • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      I sounded like you until I went offline and learned about Anarchism, anarcha-communism, intersectionality, Mutualism and Solidarity Economies. You might get your feelings hurt by online ML’s, but that’s not the real world. I dont agree much or even at all with some ML’s, and others I date. And I give less than zero fucks about what any .world neolib has to say about anything, given how much their system more than anything else has colonized and raped the planet and her peoples.

      • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        I’m all for anarcho-communism. I studied it in college. I don’t know what the execution looks like though in practice but I find it appealing.

        • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          🫶 In practice, every locality people are being the rescue workers to their neighbors Whenever and whereever Corporate & State institutions inevitably give way to their own weight and parasitism, the darker the times, the brighter folks shine. It isnt always intentional solidarity (rural townfolk often embody the practices as a matter of survival and culture, diverse as any peoples), and I’m always leery of calling things “natural”…but I do believe people have a tendency to want to help one another.

          Local Mutual Aid organizations, and Encouraging anti-authoritarian parenting methods, are the two things we can do to drastically reduce violence in our society

          “Practicing mutual aid is the surest means for giving each other and to all the greatest safety, the best guarantee of existence and progress, bodily, intellectually and morally.” Mutual Aid By Pëtr Kropotkin https://thereitis.org/kropotkins-mutual-aid/ https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anarcho-mutual-aid-an-introduction-and-evaluation

          “The structures of our state economies are going to matter in terms of protecting democracies, and by that I mean if you look at economies that were based in the kind of small producer economies like New England was vs states like the South and the American West that were always built on the idea of very high capital using extractive methods to get resources out of the land either cotton or mining or oil or water or agri business, those economies always depend on a few people with a lot of money, and then a whole bunch of people who are poor and doing the work for those Rich guys – and that I’m not sure is compatible in terms of governance without addressing the reality that you know if people have more of a foothold in their own communities, they are then more likely to support the kinds of legislation that Community [Education, Healthcare, …] and that may be the future of democracy, if not a national democracy"

          https://youtu.be/D7cKOaBdFWo?t=2139 Heather Cox Richardson, professor of American history On The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart on Trump’s Win and What’s Next

          Our resulting interactions may seem chaotic and illegible to authority, but it is through that seeming chaos that vastly complex, horizontal, and resilient practices of learning, cooperation, and reciprocity have historically arisen. https://youtu.be/qkN_nQPpeSU Mutualism: What Anarchy Needs By Andrewism

          https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/jp3q4p/comment/gbesw1p/

          About preventing crime, the short version is that it starts in the home.

          Much violent crime can be traced back to cultural factors. Violent crime, such as murder, would probably decrease dramatically in an anarchist society because most of its causes — poverty, televised glorification of violence, prisons and police, warfare, sexism, and the normalization of individualistic and anti-social behaviors — would disappear or decrease.

          The differences between two Zapotec communities illustrates that peace is a choice. The Zapotec are a sedentary agrarian indigenous nation living on land that is now claimed by the state of Mexico. One Zapotec community, La Paz, has a yearly homicide rate of 3.4/100,000. A neighboring Zapotec community has the much higher homicide rate of 18.1/100,000. What social attributes go along with the more peaceful way of life? Unlike their more violent neighbors, the La Paz Zapotec do not beat children; accordingly, children see less violence and use less violence in their play. Similarly, wife-beating is rare and not considered acceptable; women are considered equal to men, and enjoy an autonomous economic activity that is important to the life of the community so they are not dependent on men. Regarding child-rearing, the implications of this particular comparison are corroborated by at least one cross-cultural study on socialization, which found that warm, affectionate socialization techniques correlate with low levels of conflict in society.

          https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works

          As for the re-emergence of hierarchies, I think that the notion of anarchism is essentially ‘checks and balances’ turned up to 11. You get to a society that’s an ecosystem of fluid social relationships, and an anti-authoritarian culture which makes it impossible in a million ways for anyone to accumulate power. If we could get there, I think it would be more robust than current liberal democracy, where the branches of government can cooperate and you need buy-in from less people to enable power to be accumulated.

          IMO, good anarchist praxis is to 1) encourage and popularize anti-authoritarian parenting methods and 2) build strong community groups and mutual aid networks.

      • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        Well. If the most ardest proponents can’t hold it to the fire then how are the rest of us normies supposed to come on board? Clearly there is a disconnect between praxis and ideology

  • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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    19 days ago

    honestly, I eventually got fed up enough and instance blocked .ml on my account a couple weeks ago, and Ive barely noticed a difference. It was the bulk of lemmy right after it started to get some migration from Reddit, but it isnt nearly as essential these days already

      • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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        19 days ago

        Assuming that these settings are a universal part of lemmy and not instance specific, I click my name in the top right corner, select settings from the dropdown, and then there is a page with 2 tabs, one saying settings and a second that I can switch to called “blocks”. In the blocks tab, I can view and add to lists of blocked users, communities, and instances. Just go to the instances drop down, and search “lemmy.ml” and click the option that appears to add it to the block list.

        • OpenStars@piefed.social
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          Tbf that doesn’t actually do much at all in terms of blocking an instance, hence is horribly misnamed imho. All it does is mute communities located on that instance. The users from that instance can still harass you in posts in other communities, triggering notifications, vote on your content, etc.

          The Sync and Connect can do true user-level blocking of any instance you choose without needing admin support, and the Lemmy alternative PieFed, or e.g. Lemmy.cafe or dubvee org have blocked all of the big 3 tankie instances.

  • Schwim Dandy@lemm.ee
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    18 days ago

    I don’t think the meme makes sense. The ml users don’t seem to care how much other content is out there. They still participate as much as they’d like.

  • coherent_domain@infosec.pub
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    I like the idea of growing non-ml community, however, I wish larger instances do not block ML. Otherwise, they would just move to lemmy.ee or lemmy.one, just like how they moved from hexbear and grad to ml.

    It is great tankies got their own place where they can be happy, but I really don’t want to interact with them. I am emotional about issues they engage in, and emotional me is usually not the nicest version of myself.

    Social media is one of the few ways I can relax for couple hours per week outside of my job, and I really don’t want my social media experience to go full investigative journalism.

    • m4xie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      They moved from hexbear? I thought .ml had got worse! I wish my instance would defederate from them, but it seemed so hard for them to do that from HB.

      • OpenStars@piefed.social
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        18 days ago

        Tbf, many of the users already had accounts on both, but yeah since “no means yes” to them, when HB got defederated from they simply switched to whatever would allow them to continue their harassment campaigns. Lemmygrad.ml users say the same as well.

        So if ML ever were to be defederated with, from let’s say LW (Lemmy.World), they would continue forward with LW accounts rather than take the strong “suggestion” that they not.

        That’s why I prefer the approach that PieFed is testing out: not outright blocking it but placing an icon next to users that e.g. are brand-new accounts, or a different icon for those who have more downvotes than upvotes.

        • oatscoop@midwest.social
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          Hexbear mods tolerate (and sometimes encourage) the worst behaviors of their user base, which is why instances defederate from hexbear.

          When those users join other instances one of two things happens:

          • the mod team does their job, forcing those users to tone down their behavior or get banned.
          • the instances goes to shit and other instances defederate from them.

          As long as you stick to a decent instance it’s eventually a self correcting problem. You can also block instances yourself in your account settings on lemmy.

          • OpenStars@piefed.social
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            18 days ago

            Yup. Fwiw, PieFed.social has actually defederated from hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, so the approach I mentioned is more for overall instances like Lemmy.ml.

            Although instance blocking does very little - only muting communities from that instance, but the users can still reply to you, generating notifications when they do, and they can vote and thereby influence the visibility of your content (especially impactful when it is first starting out in a larger community and even 1-2 downvotes can prevent it from being seen by many).

            PieFed, along with the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect, and the Lemmy instances lemmy.cafe and Tesseract on dubvee.org allow for true blocking of all users from lemmy.ml (the latter two requiring admin support but they have chosen to defederate from all of the big 3, and they are the only instances to have done so, thus earned quite the distinction).

  • spujb@lemmy.cafe
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    19 days ago

    my instance has been defederated from .ml for ages and i can personally confirm fedi is still fun here :) take that as you will

  • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works
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    18 days ago

    Hello. Can I please make my internet experience both echoier and chamberier than it already is because it makes me sad when I encounter someone online who has different thoughts to me.

    • luciferofastora@lemmy.zip
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      18 days ago

      Like .ml admins cracking down on people suggesting that Mao’s “Great Leap Forward” was catastrophe because it forced a political will ignorant of economic reality on a society violently robbed of the ability to resist, even terrorised into meeting their quotas at any cost? Or the fact that purging and suppressing all dissidents in the first place was cruel and authoritarian, a brutal abuse of power of the same kind as Stalin’s and (in this one aspect, at least) Hitler’s?

      I’m a leftist to the bone, I recognise that a revolution without bloodshed wouldn’t have been possible at the time (and maybe never will be) and that a hard hand forcing fundamental changes to the political and educational system may well be required, but .ml has a well-known Tankie problem and they’re all too eager to follow in the steps of the boots they so love to lick.

        • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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          18 days ago

          Have you actually been to lemmy.ml? They enforce vague rules to maintain their echo chamber

          Notably, no comments have been removed from this thread for either supporting or decrying the CCP

          • XIIIesq@lemmy.world
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            I agree that power zealous mods are shit, but it’s also poor when well written comments and posts, made in good faith, are heavily downvoted for no other reason than not conforming to the consensus of the hive mind, which definitely happens here.

            We should be encouraging discussion, not discouraging wrong think.

    • LittleBorat3@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      Good point, that’s why they ban you on their instance when you write a counter argument.

      That’s another reason of becoming independent.

    • Stern@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      i dont watch shows i know i wont like on netflix. guess im in a echo chamber there too.

    • jas0n@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      I too would prefer an Internet flooded with different thoughts bad faith trolls.

  • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    18 days ago

    Something about .ml and MLs in general is that they really just aren’t that large a group. If we want larger communities, Reddit is still much bigger than Lemmy. If we want a flawed ally in politics, progressive liberals outnumber Leninists and are far less likely to deliberately betray us. (That’s why MLs always equate Liberalism with fascism; if people can ally with Liberals MLs have basically nothing they can bring to a coalition, and so they can’t seize power.)

    • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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      18 days ago

      Unless you are a diehard right-winger, Liberals will always be more likely to betray you than anyone on the left. The causality is backwards here, liberals will always side with fascists over the left, thus they are identified as moderate-fascists. Just like how the Democrats want nothing more than to just be polite Republicans.

      • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        18 days ago

        anyone on the left

        Tankies aren’t leftists. Even assuming your statement is true, it doesn’t matter.

        liberals will always side with fascists over the left

        Spanish Civil War.

        thus they are identified as moderate-fascists

        That’s not how being a political ally works. That’s just such a stupid take.

        • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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          yes they are, Tankie has become so abused and meaningless as now only means anything to the left of Dick Cheney or not going along with US foreign policy.

          Spanish Civil War, where the Soviet Union was the only foreign power to give large amounts of aid to the Republicans and France and Britain sat out, and US oil and other business interests backed Franco. Where there were divisions over tactics and priorities but where communists fought with the Republicans, and it is largely after the defeat and popularizers like Orwell that a stabbed in the back myths about communists came to prominence. Yes, the liberals were not a complete monolith, so there were some liberals with the Republicans.

          Also, in an underdeveloped, still mostly feudal society, liberalism can still be a progressive force.

          I am being short and glib since I was just responding to an epically dumb post. but if you want to know how fascism is a necessary outgrowth of liberalism and the need to protect and serve capitalism leads liberalism towards fascism in crisis.

          https://www.amazon.com/Apprentices-Sorcerer-Tradition-Critical-Sciences/dp/1608462021

          • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            17 days ago

            Spanish Civil War, where the Soviet Union

            Purged the Anarchists, yes. That’s actually the biggest example of why MLs should literally never be trusted more than liberals.

            Edit: actually, why the fuck am I even continuing this discourse? You’re obviously a lying piece of shit. Blocked.

            • Saint_La_Croix_Crosse@midwest.social
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              Purged the Anarchists? No you are the lying disingenuous person here. If we were talking about the Russian Civil War, you might have something approaching a point.

              Edit: proving the point, hatred over “tankies” is just that you don’t want your own positions or viewpoints challenged or questioned