- cross-posted to:
- publichealth@mander.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- publichealth@mander.xyz
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Let them get their raw milk then?
Kids shouldn’t die because their parents are idiots.
The rare salient point.
The frightening thing is that there are a bunch of “YEAH! KILL THOSE KIDS!” people elsewhere in the thread.
honestly im at a point politically, where i think that it needs to happen to be able to knock sense into people.
Thats it! Its not that we rejoice in their dead kids or some shit, but they just wont listen unless theyre personally effected
it’s eugenics, but legal, why shouldn’t we? Clearly letting them live up till now hasn’t served them well.
They might be kind of doomed anyway.
I mean if they grow up to be MAGA…….
/s
Yes they should. Children of profound idiots don’t DESERVE to die, but no one should be surprised when they eat lye or invest in 401k. Misunderstand eveything.
Pathogens don’t care whether or not you spread them to other people who don’t drink raw milk, I’m afraid.
And people who care, actually do things like get vaccines, and believe doctors.
Unless they can’t, some people are immunocompromised. The world is more complicated than you think, so try thinking instead of reacting.
Well, I get that. And at this point, I’m sicking of trying to keep people from setting the house on fire, while they are dousing themselves with gasoline.
You are living in the same house
Don’t even bother. They think you can vaccinate against bacteria. And they’ve doubled down on it three times now.
Vaccines can be developed for bacterial or viral infections. As explained here the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), vaccines are used to prevent, rather than treat, infection, “working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease.” Vaccines mimic an infection, causing the body to produce antibodies and defensive white blood cells, in order to help develop immunity.
Several vaccines against extracellular bacteria have been developed in the past and are still used successfully today, e.g., vaccines against tetanus, pertussis, and diphtheria. However, while induction of antibody production is usually sufficient for protection against extracellular bacteria, vaccination against intracellular bacteria is much more difficult because effective defense against these pathogens requires T cell-mediated responses, particularly the activation of cytotoxic CD8+ T cells. These responses are usually not efficiently elicited by immunization with non-living whole cell antigens or subunit vaccines, so that other antigen delivery strategies are required.
Please tell me about the salmonella and e. coli vaccines.
I dunno if we have them, because they are both only transmissible via tainted food or water. And, well, if you don’t drink or eat tainted food, you wont really have to worry, now will you?
You don’t know that you can’t have a vaccine against bacteria?
Then maybe you’re out of your depth here.
Pneumonococcal vaccine doesn’t exist?
Dude, seriously stop digging. Vaccination is for viruses, not bacteria.
I get that you really love your raw milk, but that doesn’t entitle you to just make shit up.
There isn’t an available bird flu vaccine that we could manufacture fast enough to make it available even if we started right now. This is assuming that they let us have it instead of telling us to tough it out and take some vitamin C.
There are actually several already ready to go, just not done because… Well, Bird Flu hasn’t made the jump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N1_vaccine
And, as long as the civilize nations of the world keep doing the rational thing, they’ll be able to limit the damage to just the US.
You didn’t even read that, did you?
H5N1 continually mutates, meaning vaccines based on current samples of avian H5N1 cannot be depended upon to work in the case of a future pandemic of H5N1. While there can be some cross-protection against related flu strains, the best protection would be from a vaccine specifically produced for any future pandemic flu virus strain. Daniel R. Lucey, co-director of the Biohazardous Threats and Emerging Diseases graduate program at Georgetown University, has made this point, “There is no H5N1 pandemic so there can be no pandemic vaccine.”[34] However, “pre-pandemic vaccines” have been created; are being refined and tested; and do have some promise both in furthering research and preparedness for the next pandemic.[35] Vaccine manufacturing companies are being funded to increase flexible capacity so that if a pandemic vaccine is needed, facilities will be available for rapid production of large amounts of a vaccine specific to a new pandemic strain.[36]
There is no guarantee that any “pre-pandemic” vaccines will work.
But then, you think you can vaccinate against bacteria…
You can’t vaccinate against pneumonia?
Lol, k.
No. No you can’t. Again, you really do not understand how any of this works. Pneumonia isn’t even a cause, it’s a symptom. I can be caused by fungi, viruses or bacteria. Saying you can vaccinate against pneumonia is like saying you can vaccinate against a runny nose. That’s literally not how anything works.
But please do keep digging.
I think that’s their point. Just let them be adults and decide. I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else. What I don’t understand is why the Democrats or people on the left haven’t seen this stuff for what it is. Also there’s no counter to this strategy. It’s like a weird game theory situation where one group is knows game theory and the other side knows how to play checkers
I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else.
That much is true. Its a proxy for industry de-regulation.
I’m all for people getting the raw milk they demand, because I hope it will lead to a quick demise.
Adult implies mental competency.
The non raw milk people should market their milk on the carton with
Death and Disease Free
Big Dairy would probably mark everything up, selling pasteurization as a premium feature.
The flu in general is great at swapping proteins with other strains many of which are extant in the population right now. Every human bird flu infection of which there are presently few is a chance for highly pathogenic bird flu to make a version that is more transmissible which might yet retain its present greater than covid lethality. If this happens millions could die among them the most vulnerable including the old and those with auto immune disorders. Most of these folks who would die don’t themselves drink raw milk for obvious reasons.
Well, thankfully, civilized nations around the globe will be able to contain the damage to mostly just the fascist Imperial States of America.
No they won’t be able to. There is no tested and mass produced vaccine as of yet. There is no guarantee that a vaccine vs the present bird flu will work against what idiots brew up. Even if the experimental vaccines we have in the pipe are functional against the strain that emerges there is no reason to believe that everyone especially the poorer nations shall be able to manufacture enough fast enough to prevent widespread death.
Covid did have the silver lining of really jump-starting science and medicine in this regard. I shudder to think how the viciously stupid and hateful donvict administration will handle something like bird flu, even with these great tools we now have.
There is not a chance of that happening.
People in America also thought that Covid was just something “over there” when it started in China, too. That’s not how disease works.
its because it is dangerous.
There’s literally no point in selling non pasteurized milk, unless you want to waste money and cause potential health issues.
Literally all pasteurization does is heat up the milk, moderately, for a short period of time, and thats it.
It’s more cost effective to do at scale, it’s easier to regulate, ensuring consumer safety is easier, and ensuring that something happens if your dumbass doesn’t do it properly, can also happen. The only reason you shouldn’t do this is if you want to pasteurize your own milk, for some reason.
Maybe if you hate having free time, and need more responsibilities you should go synthesize your own fucking motor oil. Not pasteurize milk.
If you want to make Kefir at home you need raw milk. Obviously US goes into Soviet times so they will need it. This and potatoes in every home garden.
No you do not.
Buy and maintain some kefir grains, it’s not expensive or difficult and does not require raw milk.
https://culturesforhealth.com/collections/kefir/products/milk-kefir-grains
Ok then this thing. My father used to do it. I’m not a fan.
I make yogurt all the time with pasteurized milk. Why would “thin yogurt” require raw milk? I have read that you get a thicker yogurt using regular pasteurized milk instead of ultra pasteurized milk, but I have had zero problems making yogurt with either.
Kefir is delicious though
Regulators Say It’s Dangerous.
Not for long, they won’t, because they won’t be allowed to.
Because they won’t exist.
Fun fact: nearly 40% of all foodborne illnesses were caused by raw milk consumption. Pasteurization has reduced that number down to less than 1%, except in places where raw milk consumption is still allowed.
Been only buying organic milk for 10+ years now out of preference, it stays fresh for much longer than normal milk. This is because USDA Organic milk is ultra-pasteurized in almost the same way as shelf-stable milk.
I searched and found this article and they reported that there’s virtually no difference in nutrients between the options:
https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/is-ultra-pasteurized-milk-bad/
So if all the nutrients are the same, the only difference in less pasteurization is more bacteria. Fuck that!
I think it definitely affects the taste though doesn’t it? I prefer the organic ones that are vat pasteurized due to that reason, ultra feels sweeter to me.
It pretty much always tastes like good fresh milk to me
Legal in the UK, fucking read a book.
Under certain conditions, and it still poses a risk as the proper labeling of it suggests.
The NLH has some literature on the unnecessary amount of people that are made sick, and some that have died as a result of consuming raw milk.
If you want to believe it’s harmless, and consume it despite warnings, you are free to do so. But I can’t in good conscience allow you to misinform people without due diligence. Now everyone can weigh the risks after having been given both sides of the argument.
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Raw milk is not safe by any standard. Removed for misinformation.
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What’s the point though. I don’t eat raw meat or raw eggs so why would I eat raw milk. If it contains protein and fat then my nutritional needs are satisfied - simple as that really
The opinion of a person apparently never had steak tartar, sashimi, met, whisky sours made properly, or eggs over easy is pretty much worthless.
I eat fried eggs over easy most days of the week. I’ve had sushi and sashimi multiple times. Never had steak tartar and I don’t drink anymore though.
Haven’t heard of runny egg yolk posing the same risk of containing harmful bacteria as raw milk.
Steak tartar and sushi fish have to come from certified producers as far as i know. Surely raw milk is the same.
But I doubt anyone eats those things every day of the week, throughout the day, like they do with milk.
Legal vs. Illegal is not the same as Safe vs. Unsafe.
just look at all those dead englishmen
Let them drink raw milk
Cows are getting avian influenza. Farm workers are getting it from the chickens and cows. There is concern that people may eventually catch bird flu from raw milk. The more people get infected, the greater the odds that a mutation will develop that allows human to human transmission. Unfortunately, we may, yet again, have all of our lives and livelihoods threatened by people too ignorant to take even the most basic precautions for self preservation.
Beautiful … the Darwin Awards are now coming to your grocery store
Let them drink it.
I drank milk from the tank and cream is the best. However, I still prefer pasteurized milk. If the MAGAts want to drink raw milk, let them and watch the green apple splatter flow.
If they die they die. It’s a risk I’m willing to take
Except they’re also giving it to their kids, who are far more susceptible to the diseases
I said what I said
What you said is horrible and you should feel horrible.
But your willing to sacrifice children’s lives for your own political goals is noted. Israel does something similar.
They aren’t responsible for other peoples kids.
You really are not connecting A and B here.
They said there should be a general strike. I said to them that 40% of Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck, meaning that missing work means not being able to feed and house their kids.
They said they can just take their kids to a soup kitchen. Which, and I don’t know how to make this any clearer to you, will not stop their kids from getting taken away from them because they’re homeless.
So you’re right, they aren’t responsible for other people’s kids and neither are you. You just both expect people to sacrifice them anyway.
Did you reply in the wrong chain? I can’t find where either of you said those things.
look bro, would i push for a law that allows raw milk to be sold? Probably not, if they push one, am i going to stop them just because they might end up killing people? Also no, collateral damage is still damage, and we’re so far gone it’s not gonna improve much at this point.
This has absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed, which is child abuse.
Both of you keep trying to change the subject.
And when that kid grows up to be a nazi youth and is ushering you into a death camp???
Why are you assuming that? Do you think fascism is a genetic trait? Which gene is the fascism gene?
Are your politics the same as your parents? Because I sure as fuck am not a Zionist like my father was.
Ok, so they get to watch their kids die at their own hands, and then head off to jail. Problem seems to be fixing itself.
At least this time the disease will stay confined to the stupid.
That’s not how diseases work.
Isn’t it contagious
Tuberculosis is also carried in unpastuerised milk. The US currently has the largest outbreak in its history.
Yeah, in Kansas City. From what I’ve been able to track down, Patient Zero came back from a recent trip to the Federated States of Micronesia. Current infected rate reported hit 66 people, but that might be higher.
If you’re in the Midwest, brush up on symptoms to look for, and stay away from Nursing Homes and elementary schools if you’re vulnerable.
Bird flu? Human-to-human either isn’t happening, or is extremely rare, can’t remember.
For now. If it mutates to become more contagious without becoming less deadly, that becomes an everyone problem
You can at least get vaxed for tb.
Stupidity? Based on the election result, I would say yes.
Sorry but how the fuck are insurance companies OK with this? They hold extreme amounts of power over the US. They are going to have to do ridiculous amounts of payouts for hospital bills.
How the fuck are people’s life saving surgeries getting denied at pre-approval, but they are not denying people’s coverage for fucking drinking raw milk??
You haven’t heard? AI is going to automatically deny all those claims, problem solved.
Maybe if this takes off raw milk will show up on health questionnaires or be in the fine print as a pre existing condition
they can just outright deny them im guessing, the consumer bought it, knowingly.
And theyll somehow blame Dems
They don’t pay out the bills lol. I imagine they’ll work on dismantling the ACA/“Obamacare.” Insurance will cover nothing.
Same as every other money minded entity, if they speak out they’ll be shouted down or destroyed. Ethics don’t matter, number go up.
Fascists always turn on each other.
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Let them. Darwin wins.
Unfortunately it’s not that simple. Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread. It’s never the risk-accepters that suffer most. It’s always the sick, the poor, the very young and the very old, and the healthcare workers who suffer. The people who refused to get vaccines or take even basic precautions with COVID killed a lot of people, while the vast majority of those assholes survived.
Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread.
Every single person that contracts the HPAI H5N1 virus is a few billion chances for the virus to mutate and generate a strain that is able to spread from person to person. These people are throwing dice over and over and when they come up snake eyes, we are all going to lose.
But then the fault is obviously DEI, because it made the birds gay or something…
A coworker of mine (African American) lost three cousins to COVID. Minorities are less likely to have good healthcare or the resources to pay out of pocket when necessary. I’m mostly on team Darwin too but I agree it’s not just the idiots that will get hurt. The way things are going schools might even start teaching that raw milk isn’t that harmful.
And when more parents start giving their kids raw milk, what then?
Forcing kids to eat dangerous food is child abuse.
Big year for Tuberculosis
But I can still get the pasteurized stuff, right?
Not for long.
Guess it’s almond milk for me then.
Can anyone explain to me why conservatives love raw milk so much? Is it like more profitable or something? Why the hell does this keep coming up?
Science-denying anti-intellectualism mixed with “you can’t tell me what to do!”
Exactly. And we should exploit that by telling them it’s not safe to consume Arsenic or lick a lead bar multiple times a day, every day. They’ll be like, “oh yeah! watch me lib tard!”. And the population will shrink. :)
Hey, it turns out that lead acetate is a natural, calorie-free, sweetener! In fact, the ancient Romans used it. The FDA doesn’t want you to use this because they’re in bed with Big Sugar and the Splenda people.
I keep myself healthy with a nice refreshing glass of atomic healing elixir (radium solution) and you should too! Ignore the FDA banning it a couple decades back for giving people radiation/heavy metal poisoning.
Ah yes. I patiently await the return of Radium Revigorators! They’re hard to find these days.
How about a glass of Hemlock juice? All those intellectuals and “city doctors” will try to get you away from that stuff, so it must be good!
Socrates was even said to have drank it!
They’re like toddlers. You tell them they shouldn’t and they will do everything in their power to do it anyways. They don’t believe in science so everything is a “radical far left jewish space laser” conspiracy to take away their freedumbs.
As far as I can tell: It’s partially the same shit as the anti vaccine mixed with being angry about government regulations.
A lot of the anecdotes I’ve heard about raw.milk being safe, are from small farms with few dairy cows.
My upper middle class family in Houston drinks it all the time. Yes they’re all die hard conservatives.
It’s the hip new way to feel rebellious and tell the government “you can’t tell me what to do” while the government fucks them over and steals their future for a quick pay day.
It’s a carefully orchestrated distraction.
In addition to what everyone else has said, I think it’s also from ideas of “return to tradition” and a veneration of a kind of rural lifestyle that largely doesn’t exist anymore. My extended family are farmers and even they got out of livestock when I was really young because there’s not enough profit except at obscene scale. But milk fresh from the cow was a thing I grew up hearing about from cousins, it was apparently viewed as safe enough for the older kids as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
Edit: also some of them are operating under the mistaken idea that raw milk is healthier or more nutritious (it’s not), or that or tastes better (actually possible, I actually heard it tasted slightly better as a kid).
Return to tradition is not the whole story.
For conservatives, power is wielded or power is seceded. In a government that you don’t trust, that’s forcing you to drink pasteurized milk, the idea of raw milk is kind of that “the government is hiding something from us” and not “the government is protecting us”. While there is some overlap between “the government can’t be trusted with milk” with “the government can be trusted with immigrants”, for the most part they aren’t necessarily the same people but they are cut from the same cloth.
They don’t want the government to control them. The government controls other people.
It’s why people like RFK are so dangerous because he now has the power to remove many of the safety nets we have grown accustomed to. Instead of Trump’s first term where COVID was downplayed, we won’t even test for avian flu. We won’t even research cures.
Not only that, given the sheer kowtowing media outlets are doing we likely will have challenges reading outbreaks in other countries.
This is not an exaggeration. We are in fascism today.
as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
I think you’re hit the nail on the head. There’s a concept in engineering (Hyrum’s Law) that where systems interface with each other (e.g. software), the design of one will ultimately rely on every aspect of the other, intentional or otherwise. In the case of industrially produced milk, pasteurization permits a relatively high degree of filth on the supply side when compared to practices in the EU or UK (they ship more raw product). So, it stands to reason that this isn’t just likely but exactly what’s going on since everyone can get away with it.
When consuming raw milk directly from your own cow its a lot safer than anything related to shipping, holding and selling it. Raw milk always contains bacteria and other microbes. These take time to grow so drinking it immediately doesn’t give them time to grow. But any amount of time between that allows them to go crazy. So it can be safe to drink raw milk in the old method where it came directly from your own cow with no time between. Its anything with scale that causes all the issues.
It’s anti vax and anti regulation so basically a maga wet dream. Squeeze cow, milk, ta da. In reality to the other 3/4 of humanity it’s a microbial breeding ground for unfiltered mutations and diseases because you’re just trusting the entire food chain leading up to the cow has been healthy and unmutated.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk. It’s like boiling water before drinking vs drinking from a puddle.
Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk
Not filtering. You heat the milk. And it’ll do nothing to “mutations.” It suppresses bacteria and at least some viruses. If you double-pasteurize, it’ll also suppress bacterial spores.
My mother’s been on the “natural health” train for a while now and claims that pasteurizing milk removes most of the nutrients (verifiably false). No amount of my protesting or pointing her towards sources for the contrary have convinced her to stop consuming that garbage.
If no one else has mentioned it, there are also those idiotic fascists (but I repeat myself) that were/are big on guzzling milk to show how “superior” they are because lactose intolerance is fairly common, but even more common among non-whites.
Extra Nazi points if it’s raw milk, maybe?
Damn Empire milk-drinkers. A True Nord is raised on mead straight from their momma’s teat.
The only half reasonable argument I’ve seen is that requiring pasteurisation (supposedly) makes it difficult for small dairy farms that want to sell direct to consumer, and forces them to sell to large milk companies for a far lower price. I have no idea how valid that argument is.
I don’t think so. I remember that we bought milk directly from the farm as a kid (Germany, so experiences may vary), but it always got collected in a big container that automatically pasteurized it during storage. Every farm had those, so they couldn’t have been that expensive.
The conscription of the granola moms.
I think it’s just that it’s a regulation, and regulation bad. I don’t want the gunment telling me I can’t drink raw milk. No, fools, the government doesn’t want people selling raw milk.
A lot of the US understands capitalism as purchasing choices at the store. Therefore if I can buy more stuff at the store I’m more free. Regulation bad.
This is handy for actual capitalist that want to abuse their workers and their customers by selling poison or watered down milk with plaster of Paris for color and liquified calf brains for texture miles from cows that are fed sawdust and literally dying. 👈 Why we regular milk now because this is all literally what was occuring.
Brawndo hasn’t been invented yet.
Regression. World is scary. Milk brought safety during infancy and the limbic system remembers.
Crying and shitting themselves not good enough?
I think it’s one of the easiest ways they can “stick it to the man”.
